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Florida to Require Drug Tests for Welfare

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Alpine3
Posts: 1812 - Karma: 37
http://articles.cnn.com/2011-06-05/politics/florida.welfare.drug.testing_1_drug-testing-tanf-welfare-recipients?_s=PM:POLITICS

what do you guys think?? personally i think this should have happened a long time ago. tired to paying my taxes and having them not be put to good use. I just wish other states would adopt this rule as well.
Jun 9 2011 6:51AM
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315jibber94
Posts: 880 - Karma: -39
FINALLY! ya other states will get on board too soon
Jun 9 2011 7:05AM
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timmi
Posts: 12874 - Karma: 3,460
Pretty smart idea. However I can see it potentially raising unemployment.
Jun 9 2011 7:17AM
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Skiingsnow
Posts: 1567 - Karma: 797
lololol gonna be alot of pissed off people about this, good idea
Jun 9 2011 7:23AM
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Milksteak
Posts: 9948 - Karma: 833
Good
Jun 9 2011 7:39AM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
Awesome idea
Jun 9 2011 7:49AM
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Static
Posts: 8561 - Karma: 4,139
So what other crimes are we going deny TANF assistance for? I vote for loitering. And driving a car that doesn't have all it's lights working (we all know only hood-types drive these kinds of cars).

Spending $100 to save $5 is not a solution to abuse, it's idiotic, spending additional money to legislate morality.

and it's probably not constitutional,
The U.S. Supreme Court case of Treasury Employees v. Von Raab, 489 U.S. 656 (1989), the high court ruled that requiring employees to produce urine samples constituted a "search" within the meaning of the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Therefore, all such testing must meet the "reasonableness" requirement of the Fourth Amendment (which protects citizens against "unreasonable" searches and seizures).




A better solution? NO WELFARE. people unable to provide for themselves turn to crime, then we lock them up, then we force labor. Bam, now the money is flowing in the right direction.
Jun 9 2011 7:51AM
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ohmythugaim
Posts: 1376 - Karma: 130
lol.

having people in jail costs money. America's jails are already incredibly overpopulated. Plus, putting people in jail for petty crimes just makes them into repeat offenders when they are released. The US justice system is not the answer to any problem.
Jun 9 2011 8:33AM
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KravtZ
Posts: 6637 - Karma: 2,629
Thats understandable if you are working or doing something important for someone to be given a drug test....but welfare is a bunch of fucken mooch's and drug addicts for the most part
Jun 9 2011 9:30AM
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PopsicleStand
Posts: 6890 - Karma: 147
Inb4moralitypreachingandtalkingaboutwelfarewithouteverseeinghowitworks

ok so just my 2 cents. between the volunteering i do and the nature of my job, there is in fact egregious abuse of the welfare system. I see many many people who have never observed the system in action come volunteer with me or work with me and they are shocked at the wastefulness, futility, and the level of abuse of some of our state and federally funded welfare programs. im not sure of the numbers so I cant say if this would be cost effective or not, but I can tell you that at a ground level its not just trying to legislate morality.
Jun 9 2011 9:44AM
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Static
Posts: 8561 - Karma: 4,139
and welfare doesn't?

even so, you missed the part where we make them work or shoot them in the face
Jun 9 2011 9:58AM
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ohmythugaim
Posts: 1376 - Karma: 130
Jail/laws/law enforcement isn't the solution to the problem, its just glazing over it and creating a new problem. Putting more people in jail won't solve the issue of crime in america... in fact, it will probably just serve to perpetuate crime, as most people who get out of prison become repeat offenders because of their lifestyle in prison and the people they meet etc.


People need to find a solution to the high crime rate and extreme poverty in america. putting people in jail is not the answer.
Jun 9 2011 10:04AM
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Static
Posts: 8561 - Karma: 4,139
keeping them there is.


or what would you propose? we just buy our way out of it with food and housing assistance? Because if it's my money getting spent, they can drink water in jail over purple drank in the projects.
Jun 9 2011 10:25AM
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NataliePortman
Posts: 1382 - Karma: 84
smartest thing florida has done in a while, hopefully this will help with the pill epidemic out there from all the pain clinics, etc.
Jun 9 2011 10:30AM
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tall_pants
Posts: 663 - Karma: 446
Why didn't this happen earlier
Jun 9 2011 10:31AM
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Lemuel
Posts: 14502 - Karma: 10,729
Good, and there should be a law on foodstamps as well. When I worked in the grocery store, everyone on welfare would come in buying potato chips, soda, cigarettes, and other junk food.
Jun 9 2011 10:35AM
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crab_pretzel
Posts: 3919 - Karma: 622
i dont know how this is gonna go down, but i am all in favor of it. now people on welfare wont just be blowing the little money they can get a hold of on drugs, and maybe be of welfare sooner
Jun 9 2011 10:37AM
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mackinnon
Posts: 5153 - Karma: 161
i love the morality comments- really funny. props to FL for finally doing this, if people have to take drug tests to get employment (as many jobs do), people should have to be drug tested to receive welfare from those working people's tax dollars. Maine needs to get on this bandwagon...
Jun 9 2011 10:39AM
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Flying~Squirrel
Posts: 6494 - Karma: 192
youre just wrong on that point im afraid
Jun 9 2011 10:43AM
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ohmythugaim
Posts: 1376 - Karma: 130
Yeah, lets give everyone who has committed a crime a life sentence...




I don't know if you're just trolling or you lack the ability to think.


We need to resolve the issue of poverty, which leads to crime. People aren't born criminals. They are forced into crime because of their surroundings and culture. America has one of the highest crime rates in the world. Putting more people in jail obviously hasn't helped, seeing as America has the largest % of its population in prison right now...
Jun 9 2011 10:51AM
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ohmythugaim
Posts: 1376 - Karma: 130
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration#Incarceration_rates_by_country


Jun 9 2011 10:52AM
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Static
Posts: 8561 - Karma: 4,139
Any other government benefits, all paid for by workers who may have been subjected to a drug test, that anyone who uses should be drug tested for? Heating assistance? Student grants? Public transportation vouchers? Roadways? Fire response?
Jun 9 2011 10:54AM
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SirFryanator
Posts: 11149 - Karma: 1,415
not really. what he's suggesting is basically a form of slavery for those who fail to meet certain societal norms. labor costs money as well, unless you have prisoners doing it...the amount we would save on labor well overshadows jailing costs, IMO.

here's an oversimplified breakdown:
Every prisoner, if they weren't in jail and had a job, would be forcing his or her employer to pay minimum wage. That's at least $6 something an hr. It's maybe $6 per meal in jail, little more in prison. 3 meals a day = apprx. 3 hrs worth of income (other costs = maintenance of prison facilities, utility bills, etc.) Put them to work for 6-10 hrs a day (not much by any means) and that's a shitload of money that taxpayers would normally be spending on labour that now they can put into their business.

It's a cutthroat way of economics, but it's a dog eat dog world.
The economics of the system doesn't always work out like that though, as I'm sure we've all seen....
Jun 9 2011 10:54AM
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fillup
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 568
Sucks to be a stoner welfare sucka, i know one here in utah
Jun 9 2011 11:00AM
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Melvs
Posts: 15174 - Karma: 480
Ya, great fucking policy...

You know, since clearly everyone who has used "drugs" is a horrible person who contributes nothing to society.

Apart from people like this...

http://coedmagazine.com/2009/02/06/the-10-most-successful-potheads-on-the-planet-cool-enough-to-admit-it/

Or Steve Jobs (taken from his wikipedia article)... "During this time, Jobs experimented with psychedelics, calling his LSD experiences "one of the two or three most important things [he had] done in [his] life". He has stated that people around him who did not share his countercultural roots could not fully relate to his thinking."

Or numerous other highly successful people who us drugs.

Lazy people are lazy, with or without drugs. Laws like this won't fix anything at all.
Jun 9 2011 11:03AM
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SirFryanator
Posts: 11149 - Karma: 1,415
^

you can't get tested for LSD, it gets out of your system way too quickly for any sort of 'random drug test' to be effective.

and I don't want my taxpayers money going toward welfare that funds crack addicts, methheads, stoners, or other addicts. i've used drugs, hell I been caught for using drugs. If you're not stupid about it like I was you won't get caught (unless you're caught in the web of addiction, which takes a lot of your control away from you. I can sympathize).

Not like this law effects any of you. If it does, then please post and share your thoughts.
Jun 9 2011 11:08AM
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SirFryanator
Posts: 11149 - Karma: 1,415
I'm going to dub post and be done.

I see both sides of the issue but I'm a cynical fuck sometimes and I know the mindset of an addict. I've been there. I don't want ppl who are in the same state of mind I was at taking money from me and most definitely spending at least part of it on something that only drags them down in the end. Most of these guys aren't using LSD or ethneogens anyway, and if they are they aren't using it for spiritual or recovery purposes.
Jun 9 2011 11:11AM
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Static
Posts: 8561 - Karma: 4,139
Damn dude, kind of rude.... putting words into my mouth then putting me down...

You almost get it, so I can see why you're getting frustrated. Consider this: those who haven't helped themselves thus far, probably never will.

You say surroundings are to blame, well the minimum wage is set across the nation and that would provide ANYONE willing to work a livable income.

You say culture is to blame, I would agree with you on that. The culture that you don't need to work, that there will always be a safety net is the problem.

If someone doesn't feel like working that's absolutely fine with me, they can sit in the dirt until they get the motivation to provide for themselves, but why should the fruits of my labor go to them?

So i will ask for a 2nd time, what do you propose we do.
Jun 9 2011 11:16AM
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forum10
Posts: 421 - Karma: 2
you're a fucking moron. are you really trying to compare student loans and state maintained roads to welfare? and your throw everyone in jail for slave labor is REALLY a step in the right direction... jesus christ hahaha
Jun 9 2011 11:18AM
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Static
Posts: 8561 - Karma: 4,139
how do you not get the comparison? services provided by tax dollars coming from people who may or may not have been drug tested having a requirement for use..... I like how you cherry picked the easy ones too..

are you saying that putting people who commit crimes in jail is wrong or that we shouldn't be able to minimize the costs? Because I could be persuaded that slave labor violates human rights, and extradition from the US might be a better solution in the long term, short term and on the books.

Do you think enabling people who don't earn their lifestyle by stealing from those who do is a step in the right direction?
Jun 9 2011 11:26AM
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fillup
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 568
Wow static you suck,

People are born into poverty, alot of them because of the EXPLOITATION that us "workers" put on them back in the day. We still exploit the fuck out of everything, so why cant poor people exploit the government system that is supposed to help them step out of poverty? Cuz its alot harder than you know/think/can imagine. So alot do just give up and post up with their welfare checks, what do you do with your allowance money?
Jun 9 2011 11:33AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
most of them don't even have any desire to move upwards, because their options come down to...


do nothing. Sit around all day doing nothing, and get a check every month.

or


work your ass off and try to accomplish something, with no guaranteed results.



So yea, most of them opt to do nothing because welfare offers them more stability than work.
Jun 9 2011 11:38AM
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Static
Posts: 8561 - Karma: 4,139
so is this the crux of your post?
Jun 9 2011 11:38AM
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THAT-GUY
Posts: 141 - Karma: 11
Crime is going to skyrocket, an addict will do whatever is necessary to get their fix.

Coke, meth, heroin people will kill for those...
Jun 9 2011 11:42AM
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fillup
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 568
My point is that our system makes the rich richer, and the poor poorer. So i dont give a fuck if they take some money from the government, stoned or not stoned.
Jun 9 2011 11:42AM
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VT_FLO
Posts: 3806 - Karma: 147
Wow you are ignorant!

It's quite the opposite actually, read any sociology study on the lower class. Most of these people are working 1 fulltime job and a nightshift of another job. Because they don't have an education, Can't get a loan for one because they have no credit and don't have the finances to pay if they fail out (ex: taking a mortgage on your home) and DON'T have the time to go to night classes because they're trying to pay their rent and feed their families they are trapped in this paycheck to paycheck lifestyle. Welfare is an attempt to ease their burden and free them some time so that they can have an afternoon off once every two weeks.


Jun 9 2011 11:44AM
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Static
Posts: 8561 - Karma: 4,139
they put themselves there by living above their means

don't have an education but have an xbox, don't have a retirement account but have a leased car, don't have mortgage but have crotch fruit

any person can support themselves in this country if they make an effort
Jun 9 2011 11:48AM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
i'm sort of disappointed by this post because you're usually a really intelligent poster with some substance to your posts. but this^ is just pure speaking from ignorance. these claims that 1) living on a welfare check is comfortable or preferable to having a normal good job and 2) "most of them" (such an audacious claim) dont even have the desire to move upwards" show you have clearly not experienced enough walks of life to be commenting on the subject with such authority

there are a million people out there working literally 3 times harder than you for 1/3 of what you have. to claim otherwise based on nothing but anecdotal evidence is really arrogant and immature
Jun 9 2011 11:49AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
i'm sorry to disappoint you, but it is not ignorance. I have spent huge amounts of time in impoverished areas, as have my father and several of my friends. Spend time in community centers and the like in those areas, and you'll find plenty of people who don't want to move on from welfare because it would be ruining a great system they have. I'm not just talking out of my ass as some white kid from the suburbs, so while i'm not an authority on it, i do have some experience.

I'm not saying it's comfortable or a great lifestyle, but it does become acceptable for them because they've become accustomed to it. Getting a check for nothing is better than working your ass off for about the same amount.

A lot of them do work very hard and try to move on, but many also have no desire to even try.


And i work very hard for what i have, but my parents have work harder their entire lives to give me a boost. Every day i drive through a less than fortunate area to get to work, and the vast majority of adults that i encounter are sitting outside doing nothing. And when i drive through 8 hours later...they are still sitting there, doing nothing.
Jun 9 2011 11:58AM
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Static
Posts: 8561 - Karma: 4,139
but why? does it justify wealth redistribution? almost never.
Jun 9 2011 12:01PM
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forum10
Posts: 421 - Karma: 2
because, for one example, student loans are LOANS. they have to pay them back eventually whereas welfare you don't. i mean how could you not get that? and as for all the others, you cannot LIVE off those services and they're used by EVERYONE. but with welfare people can easily live single lives with some people doing it for as long as they want with no motivation to move forward... it's a perfect scenario for people with drug abuse problems. do you think enabling drug users with this program is a good idea?

as for the jail part, are you not noticing how most of our prisons are overcrowded as is? do you know how much it costs to keep a person in jail for a year or to send them out to do work? do you know how many non-violent offenders are in jail for unnecessarily long sentences? you are not cutting any costs by throwing more people in jail and using their labor... try investing more money into rehab and educational programs, or how about eliminating the life sentence all together or keeping it and separating people who have life in prison from those who don't.

you honestly have no fucking clue about the penitentiary system and how severely poor it is in our country. actually, you have no fucking clue about what you're talking about, period.
Jun 9 2011 12:03PM
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Static
Posts: 8561 - Karma: 4,139
i said grants dick bag, but nice strawman attempt
Jun 9 2011 12:05PM
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fillup
Posts: 4904 - Karma: 568
You have to realize that wealth is accumulated, and taken. Redistribution only goes to those who have the money to make more money. You can have a good education because the tax payers of your area pay, what if they dont? what if you dont have a good school option?
Jun 9 2011 12:05PM
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forum10
Posts: 421 - Karma: 2
oh sorry, grants are EARNED and given out to much higher standards than not having a job to people trying to attain a higher education. yup, that sounds so much like welfare...
Jun 9 2011 12:06PM
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Static
Posts: 8561 - Karma: 4,139
really heating assistance? and public transportation vouchers are used by everyone?
Cherry picking the easy shit again you stupid fuck.
Jun 9 2011 12:07PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
yeah, ive also spent a lot of time working in centers etc, and youre right, there are a lot of people that dont want to work and just want to sit around all day. but the fact of the matter is, this is not the majority. even if it was, would that make it the right thing to do to say FUCK YOU to all the people with legitimate reasons for being financially in the shitter?

there are so many people out there who need and deserve a safety net program, and to claim we shouldnt have one in place because some poor people arent being legit, is imhumane and petty

i mean, i guess i just can't imagine getting bent out of shape over the taxes i pay for safety net programs (ive done the math for an example on here in a thread before, i forget what it came to but it's like 2 or 3% of my income) so people can not starve to death on the street, rather than the ~60% of my taxes that go to our surreal 'defense' budget and other things like medicare and medicaid. i just don't get it
Jun 9 2011 12:08PM
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Static
Posts: 8561 - Karma: 4,139
actually there are low income grants, given out for not having a job, kind of like welfare (not that it even has any bearing on the comparison)
Jun 9 2011 12:09PM
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Static
Posts: 8561 - Karma: 4,139
uhh tough shit?

how does taking someone else's earned money make any sense
Jun 9 2011 12:12PM
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Static
Posts: 8561 - Karma: 4,139
i guess it's just the principle of it, protecting one's self is given a greater priority than affording someone else's leisure
Jun 9 2011 12:14PM
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forum10
Posts: 421 - Karma: 2
just stop. you've already proven that you don't know what you're talking about.
Jun 9 2011 12:14PM
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Static
Posts: 8561 - Karma: 4,139
haha, sure buddy, that's why I've refuted everything you've made up
Jun 9 2011 12:16PM
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