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Canadian Couple refuse to assign a gender to their baby

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nickyp
Posts: 5673 - Karma: 215
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13581835

Now THAT is social progressivism. Disucss
May 27 2011 5:00PM
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shibby
Posts: 7088 - Karma: -19
No fuck that.
May 27 2011 7:41PM
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emilyiscool
Posts: 1628 - Karma: 60
you do know you dont get to choose right?
May 27 2011 7:46PM
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Download-My-Apps
Posts: 5069 - Karma: 1,017
Seriously? I'm curious to why you feel so strongly/ insecure that you feel like you need to attack people for the choices they make. Realize that the world isn't as black and white as general society makes it, and the parents could have very good reasons for doing this that you wouldn't understand. Realize that many females still have limited opportunities due to gender norms, and this might be why they are doing this. I, myself wouldn't chose this route for my children, might make them feel abnormal. I'm just trying to give some perspective

  And if a two year old 'dibbled' with barbies, then who cares? theyre 2! and they're toys!  If you put a toy in front of a kid without imposing your own values on them, chances are a kid will play with them out of curiosity. Its called learning.... It won't influence their sexuality.  But labeling something as wrong or fag will. Sex is a socially constructed term, its not just as simple as being male or female anymore. People are recognizing that, its a shame that you feel you need to attack on others simply because its an idea you're not comfortable with.
May 27 2011 7:47PM
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spidermanatadesk
Posts: 491 - Karma: 10
I believe you can choose the gender of your baby now.
May 27 2011 7:52PM
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AWALLRUS.
Posts: 5762 - Karma: 223
lol the kid won't know either. if there was no thing as sex ed the kid would probably get to age 12 and try to be fucking himself in his own asshole and snap his dick off or something./
May 27 2011 7:55PM
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Download-My-Apps
Posts: 5069 - Karma: 1,017
lol just because the parents aren't telling people what gender their child is at 4 months doesn't mean the kid will be stupid.
May 27 2011 7:57PM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
When I see things like this I question our future as a society
May 27 2011 8:02PM
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huge-go
Posts: 1451 - Karma: 33
and the boys are "almost exclusively assumed to be girls"
They see this as the positive outcome of their imposed gender freedom? Fuck that shit. Just creating so much confusion down the road for these kids. What if these kids are all straight, but they dress like the sex that they want to fuck? Gonna be some sexually repressed people who are basically predisposed to some fucked up sexual mental diseases, all so that their parents could make a point about sexual norms.
May 27 2011 8:57PM
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Download-My-Apps
Posts: 5069 - Karma: 1,017
how would wearing what you want as a kid cause a mental disease? Enlighten me? I'm sure the kids the kids will know their gender at an age and choose to dress in whatever way attracts their desired sex. Give kids some credit, they pick up on social norms.
May 27 2011 9:03PM
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Twig
Posts: 6408 - Karma: 60,045
In the whole thread so far, this is by far the most intelligent comment.
May 27 2011 9:08PM
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huge-go
Posts: 1451 - Karma: 33
ok, so what the parents are doing serves absolutely no purpose.
May 27 2011 9:12PM
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huge-go
Posts: 1451 - Karma: 33
oh, I'll elaborate on the mental disease part. If the kid really likes dressing like a girl, and likes girls, but no girl wants him because he DRESSES like a girl, that could lead to him developing a really bad relationship with girls in general, which could lead to some sexually depraved behavior when he gets older. If they just show their gender at a certain age and life continues as normal then yeah you're right, nothing bad will come of that, but then like I said above, what these parents are doing is absolutely pointless.
May 27 2011 9:18PM
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Brock.
Posts: 5698 - Karma: 1,332
Only in toronto.


For anybody that has made stupid comments, I think you need to recognize that the parents are clearly transgender and are just making it easier for him/her if he/her has to go through the same process as they did when they are adolescence. Its is understandable, however he idea of changing or altering ones gender just doesn't sit right with me. No matter how much I juggle the thought it just makes me physically sick (in the most indiscriminate respect), I just don't feel comfortable with the idea.
May 27 2011 9:23PM
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emilyiscool
Posts: 1628 - Karma: 60
why do you care what someone else does to there own body, if they wanna change genders, who cares?
May 27 2011 9:49PM
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95959
Posts: 2765 - Karma: 377
I fail to see what's so wrong about letting the kid choose what they want and what makes them happy. To hell with any of your pre-conceived notions of what a guy or a girl needs to be like.
May 27 2011 9:54PM
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Brock.
Posts: 5698 - Karma: 1,332
I dont care for it in any sense whatsoever, all I was saying was that the concept as a whole in my eyes seems like a deceptive and unsettling persona.
May 27 2011 10:07PM
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emilyiscool
Posts: 1628 - Karma: 60
whats deceptive, they are just changing there appearance to correlate with there mind. i think what would really be deceptive was if you were to date someone who was mentally male but continued to look female, you would pretty much be dating a guy with tits and a vagina, wouldnt that be unsettling at all?
May 27 2011 10:10PM
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Rosbif
Posts: 2543 - Karma: 930
It would probably be extremely unsettling yes, neither scenario is really desirable for me.

Is this kid more likely to end up confused about his gender after this messed up experiment? I'd say so.

Anyone read that psychological study about the twins they experimented in a similar (if more extreme) fashion? One had his penis mutilated in a circumcision accident, so a researcher thought it would be interesting to see what would happen if they just chopped the rest of his penis off and raised him as a girl. In order to test how much gender roles are assigned by nature and how much societal pressures affected it. Both twins ended up committing suicide.

Obviously this case is less severe, but seriously, why? I see no benefit to this whatsoever.
May 27 2011 10:32PM
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Errl
Posts: 2082 - Karma: 451
.
May 27 2011 10:33PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
I'm just saying this as future advice, even if you think your opinion matters or is relevant, read the thread, preview your post and once again think "Does my post really make any difference?"


We are obviously beyond your thought capacity here.
May 28 2011 5:10AM
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plorr
Posts: 3131 - Karma: 528
Wow so you sound like a grade a douche bag.

You realize there is such a thing as inter-sex right? There is a small percentage of people who are not born with a clearly defined gender. When parents make a decision to identify the intersex child's gender for them at birth or at a very young age, it often causes the child serious psychological issues for their entire life. If this is the case with this child, then I believe they are doing the right thing for the child's wellbeing by allowing him/her to identify his/her own gender. Although, I don't think it is necessary for them to go public with it or attract as much attention as they are. On the other hand, if the child is already clearly a male or female, and they are still keeping it a secret, that is just fucking ridiculous.
May 28 2011 6:20AM
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plorr
Posts: 3131 - Karma: 528
The fuck? All of your posts are just so fucking ignorant.
May 28 2011 6:22AM
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^BEANS^
Posts: 624 - Karma: 248


May 28 2011 7:41AM
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Brock.
Posts: 5698 - Karma: 1,332
finally, some justification for my point
May 28 2011 1:21PM
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Download-My-Apps
Posts: 5069 - Karma: 1,017
um those are two very different cases. All I'm saying is you don't know enough about this child's/ parent's situation to state that they will cause a mental disorder.
May 28 2011 3:18PM
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Download-My-Apps
Posts: 5069 - Karma: 1,017
sorry got the people mixed up in this thread
May 28 2011 3:20PM
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Bodhisattva_
Posts: 5749 - Karma: 2,009
The fact taht they give their boys the choice to dress however they want and encourage them to "challenge gender norms" then they are going to be more feminine, because thats the only way to challenge gender norms. There are only two genders, not a whole lot of exploring to do. I feel bad for these kids. Gonna get made fun of and shit so much.
And they'll never get any pussy with pigtails.
May 28 2011 3:21PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
But the fact that everyone keeps saying "They're going to have it rough" as did I, isn't the problem in our behavior and what we consider to be the norm? Just expecting that they will get shit on and not challenging that behaviour.
May 28 2011 3:22PM
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Bodhisattva_
Posts: 5749 - Karma: 2,009
Touche.
May 28 2011 3:28PM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,087
Pretty controlling of the parents to pick their names... I mean that branding goes a million miles further than their appearance.
May 28 2011 3:30PM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,087
they should get to choose their adoptive parents though, or the option of emancipation
May 28 2011 3:46PM
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huge-go
Posts: 1451 - Karma: 33
WHY is my question. Now that I think about it, the only reason I could see for these parents doing this is that the kid is a hermaphrodite or something. What benefits are there for the children? This isn't like being gay or something that's supposedly genetic and no matter what you can't like the opposite sex. If you were brought up with boys clothing being the norm for you, then that's it, boys clothing is normal for you. They're making an issue out of something where there would never, EVER be one unless they make it one. To the people that are like "what's wrong with letting the kid choose what they want and what makes them happy," I do not understand your logic. I have a little brother, and I'm not the only one on NS, so I have this question to offer up: What if your parents did this to your brother or sister? I don't once recall my brother objecting to the clothing that was purchased for him on the basis that "gender norms" were being imposed on him. If the kid is actually a hermaphrodite, and the parents aren't just trying to make a statement, then the parents should have kept their mouths shut instead of going public.
May 28 2011 5:27PM
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BlakeLively
Posts: 663 - Karma: 656
a cross dressing baby with the name Storm. have a nice life kid. you're fucked from the start.
May 28 2011 5:34PM
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Brock.
Posts: 5698 - Karma: 1,332
So you are saying that all children should pick there own parents? Children cannot speak or form even the slightest coherent sentence for 2 years.

Please explain...
May 28 2011 5:44PM
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Download-My-Apps
Posts: 5069 - Karma: 1,017
I think hes being a joker....
May 28 2011 5:46PM
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Rosbif
Posts: 2543 - Karma: 930
Haha, awesome!
May 29 2011 9:20AM
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Jeffmnicholas
Posts: 821 - Karma: 42
this is beyond ridiculous. i dont see how anyone can defend the parents actions. if in a few years, the baby decides he/she feels more like the opposite sex, he/she can determine this for him/herself. By being given a choice before the child is actually decided, it just causes confusion.
May 29 2011 9:57AM
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blindside
Posts: 5619 - Karma: 1,199
Pretty arrogant/controlling that the parents would assume that their child wanted to be conceived in the first place.




On another note, cute kid.
May 29 2011 2:26PM
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Jane6
Posts: 5359 - Karma: 4,506
this

I think the whole obsession with gender stereotypes is annoying: the first thing one asks the parents when the baby was born is what gender it is. Girls are at a super early age taught how to play with toys which will in one way or another "prepare" them for their roles as mothers (dolls, easy bake ovens etc). Boys play with completely different toys.
Fine, some say that this behaviour is "natural", that women are biologically predestined to squeeze out and take care of kids, and the men are to provide for the women and children. But this is still something parents impose on their kids (pink/blue, Barbie/Actionman), and it really is something I want to avoid as much as possible if I ever get kids. Why? I do not see it as some weird field study from which I will feel like som master of puppets. I personally just hate the current stereotypes of how girls and boys should be, where theres no room for being different.

My mom has finally to some extent gotten over the fact that I'm not and never will be a girly girl like my sister is. Its taken her almost 20 years to get that out of her conservative mind. I dont want my future children to be yelled at or mocked because they wear exactly what they want instead of something which is seen as "normal" or whatever.

My mom and I once started arguing at the mall because I refused to try on some stupid shit she had brought me, and then she started screaming at me, saying that "you look like a dyke, people will think you're a lesbian when you walk around looking like that!"
(I wore a big t-shirt, skinny jeans and skate shoes), and that sparked something in me. I never want my own children to experience such a thing, because trust me, it hurts as fuck when your own parents are ignorant and just cant accept the fact that you are who you are. //end rant

sparknotes: fuck gender stereotypes.
May 29 2011 4:01PM
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Bodhisattva_
Posts: 5749 - Karma: 2,009
If it has a penis, it's a boy.
May 30 2011 12:20AM
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BmoChop
Posts: 2071 - Karma: 96
I completely see where theyre coming from, letting theyre kid make it's own decisions, but denying it's gender doesnt mean it doesnt have one....to deny it's gender is stupid, to allow it to make it's own decisions has its merits.
May 30 2011 12:39AM
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THEDICKBUTCHER
Posts: 3067 - Karma: 673
anything is ok in moderation.  This is too extreme, puberty's gonna suck for them
May 30 2011 12:52AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
They're not denying anything, just not saying it and assigning gender roles since birth.
May 30 2011 7:39AM
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