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Canadian Couple refuse to assign a gender to their baby

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nickyp
Posts: 5673 - Karma: 215
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13581835

Now THAT is social progressivism. Disucss
May 27 2011 5:00PM
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UNREAL
Posts: 3989 - Karma: 23
you would literally have to be so fucking dumb...
people these days..
May 27 2011 5:00PM
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spen-cer
Posts: 1694 - Karma: 652
SO hipster
May 27 2011 5:01PM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,750
It's a boy!
May 27 2011 5:02PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
nothing like raising a family of trannies.
May 27 2011 5:04PM
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spidermanatadesk
Posts: 491 - Karma: 10
Who cares?


"Kathy Witterick and David Stocker have been widely criticised for imposing their ideology on four-month-old Storm."
Everyone is imposing some ideology or another on their children.
May 27 2011 5:04PM
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Tinga
Posts: 11349 - Karma: 2,333
I wanna believe NS is mature enough to realize they can do their own thing and not make it a big deal like the media.
May 27 2011 5:05PM
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BIGben*
Posts: 1942 - Karma: 8
Hahahaha!
May 27 2011 5:07PM
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JIBpsy^^
Posts: 2851 - Karma: 36
FUCK THOSE HIPSTERS. That child is going to be forever criticized for the bullshit ideaology that its parents imposed on it. I would probably try to be emancipated from those fucked up hipsters as soon as i could. talk about an identity crisis
May 27 2011 5:09PM
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panojibber
Posts: 3382 - Karma: 216
Meh on one hand this makes sense from a social justice perspective, but it still doesn't change the fact that parents can't make their children champions of gender expression and send them to school expecting all to go well. The reason queer kids generally hate high school so much is because it sucks being different and these kids will most likely have the same, if not a worse experience (assuming this continues). I blame the parents for being negligent to the best interests of the children, in hopes of promoting social justice. Sure they should be able to wear what they want, but at some point you have to learn that there are expected norms in society and you can't just violate them without repercussions.

This is just me feeling sad for the kids, I have no problem with gender expression.
May 27 2011 5:12PM
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Proletariat.
Posts: 1797 - Karma: 45
I liked Genders before everyone had one
May 27 2011 5:15PM
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Anathema
Posts: 21048 - Karma: 5,061
oh for fucks sake.

people are so fucking weird..
May 27 2011 5:17PM
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E.F.M.
Posts: 509 - Karma: 1,970
sooo trendy
but who cares really
May 27 2011 5:21PM
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nickyp
Posts: 5673 - Karma: 215
Yes, but gender is not an abstract, baseless concept.

No one is 'naturally Catholic' or 'naturally Liberal' or 'naturally pro-life'. These are values parents give their children.

Children are however born 'objectively male' or 'objectively female', and to try and refute that is nonsense.
May 27 2011 5:24PM
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james6345789
Posts: 4763 - Karma: 467

A Toronto couple are defending their decision to keep their infant's sex a secret in order to allow the child to develop his or her own gender identity.

Kathy Witterick and David Stocker have been widely criticised for imposing their ideology on four-month-old Storm.

The family were the subject of a recent profile in the Toronto Star newspaper.

In an e-mail, Ms Witterick wrote that the idea that "the whole world must know what is between the baby's legs is unhealthy, unsafe, and voyeuristic".

Ms Witterick, 38, and Mr Stocker, 39, have also been criticised for the manner in which they are raising their two sons Jazz, five, and Kio, two.

The boys are encouraged to choose their own clothing and hairstyles - even if that means wearing girls' clothes - and to challenge gender norms. Jazz wears his hair in long braids, and the boys are "almost exclusively assumed to be girls," Mr Stocker told the Toronto Star.

The child's grandparents do not know Storm's sex, the Toronto Star reported, and have grown weary of explaining the situation, but are supportive.

In an e-mail to the Associated Press news agency, Ms Witterick, a stay-at-home mother, said a four-month-old infant was still learning to recognise him or herself, and said it was inappropriate to impose a gender identity on the child.


May 27 2011 5:26PM
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Mr.Turtle
Posts: 3690 - Karma: 96
.
May 27 2011 5:30PM
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[evan]
Posts: 5628 - Karma: 117
I feel bad for the kids, they are going to get shit all over by everybody they talk to.
May 27 2011 5:31PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Sounds cool as a pet project, but looking at how adversely it could affect their children's lives it seems a bit selfish, actually.

I hope they will make it through life without any hardships and I'll be checking this thing as to how it pans out over the years.
May 27 2011 5:35PM
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Troy.
Posts: 5070 - Karma: 12,549
It is one thing to not reveal their religion
May 27 2011 5:35PM
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eirikdl
Posts: 268 - Karma: 331
I Think it's a boy, but those children are going to have a hard life
May 27 2011 5:41PM
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skiP.E.I.
Posts: 7821 - Karma: 21,850
Not entirely objectively male or female. Gender is more of a sliding scale. There are a surprising amount of people who are in the center and have characteristics of being male and female. A high profile example is Caster Semenya: http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/32477147/ns/sports-olympic_sports/. This shows some statistics on the frequency of intersex individuals: http://www.isna.org/faq/frequency So the highest amount are people who have neither XX or XY chromosomes (one in approx. 1666) and XXY individuals (1 in 1000). Some people who are "objectively" male have many female characteristics and vice versa.
May 27 2011 5:44PM
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TechnoPotamus
Posts: 11626 - Karma: 3,522
Click for larger image
May 27 2011 5:45PM
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little1337
Posts: 8241 - Karma: 47,862
lol
May 27 2011 5:48PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
The logic behind this is very clear though, be a boy or a girl and just watch how sickeningly parents and our society push kids into gender stereotypes from the cradle onwards - baby blue, baby pink, rocket for him, doll for her etc.

I think that is sick, to push a "modern" yet obsolete gender type onto someone in hopes they belong, it's no wonder so many people are fucked in the head or lost these days. Straight up there with religion.

May 27 2011 5:48PM
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jaythemans
Posts: 243 - Karma: 57
Keeping your children genderless is SOOO hot right now
May 27 2011 5:49PM
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FBGM
Posts: 8184 - Karma: 2,677
That's not a bad idea.

But that baby is definitely a boy.
May 27 2011 5:52PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
May 27 2011 5:53PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
WHY START NOW?
May 27 2011 6:00PM
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Talacious[Tally]
Posts: 1686 - Karma: 189
Gender is part of life. It's nature. There are supposed to be genders and gender roles and there always have been, not saying that it is a solid division between genders or that gender roles can't be crossed or meshed. The parents say they will stop all this when people stop gender roles, well what the fuck do they expect? A society of hermaphrodites? That's not how it is or ever going to be no matter how hard they try. Now I'm not trying to take any side of gender roles being good or bad but that is just a natural part of life.
May 27 2011 6:01PM
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[tk]
Posts: 3863 - Karma: 1,906
20 bucks says its a boy
May 27 2011 6:02PM
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skier_boy26
Posts: 11295 - Karma: 502
I think it is bad to force a particular way on people, but that is how parents operate. The modern era is as tolerant as you will EVER find.


But, I think what pisses me off about these hippies (feel bad for the kid) is that there ARE fundamental differences between men and women. That kind of shit shouldn't be shunned, it should be celebrated, especially by way of copious amounts of sex.
May 27 2011 6:07PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Haha, truthfully so.
May 27 2011 6:11PM
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Download-My-Apps
Posts: 5069 - Karma: 1,017
you guys realize that the child could possibly not have a clearly defined gender and when given the wrong gender as a child can really fuck with someone at puberty.?
May 27 2011 6:14PM
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andreaswhite
Posts: 153 - Karma: 83
The gender is different than the sex. Of course the child is a male or female, but the way people act or dress depending on the sex is cultural.
May 27 2011 6:15PM
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Talacious[Tally]
Posts: 1686 - Karma: 189
I agree that some parents go way too far with girls being girls and boys being boys, but these parents are just crazy. My parents definitely got me barbies and put me in pink but they also never objected when I wanted dinosaurs instead of barbies or when I wanted to wear a batman shirts instead of a princess shirt.
May 27 2011 6:21PM
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Download-My-Apps
Posts: 5069 - Karma: 1,017
I disagree, children pickup on gender stereotypes as young as 6 months old. Why should society tell a girl they should play with a pink teapot rather than a red truck? I think we will see a lot more a bridging of differences between male and female norms in years to come.
May 27 2011 6:22PM
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Talacious[Tally]
Posts: 1686 - Karma: 189
I wasn't trying to say that I society should tell a girl to play with girl toys rather than boy toys, I always loved playing with dinosaurs and legos and i wore batman and superman shirts all the time. I don't think gender should be forced by any means but I just don't agree with the methods of these parents or the other extremist on both sides.
May 27 2011 6:28PM
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fratskier69
Posts: 1868 - Karma: 1,272
i think its a pretty cool idea, i mean it shows how society treats people completey differently depending on their sex, in a bad way towards women sometimes. the only problem is that these kids will probably end up not fitting in with anyone when they are older
May 27 2011 6:29PM
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dispatchQ_main
Posts: 2619 - Karma: 629
Im pretty sure its gonna be hard for the kid to not look down and say "look at my dick" like when i was a kid i knew i was a boy and im pretty sure my parents ever had to tell me.. I think im missing something.
May 27 2011 6:45PM
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emilyiscool
Posts: 1628 - Karma: 60
i think its good for the kid :)
May 27 2011 6:54PM
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t_rob
Posts: 6433 - Karma: 11,458
This is an interesting discussion but not one to get into on this website.
May 27 2011 7:04PM
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p-fo
Posts: 9372 - Karma: 6,155
Well I hope that they at least tell the kid. Social justice would be accepting the kid however it turns out and having no societal pressures on how it should view its gender, not keeping it a fucking secret.

If it has a penis, it's a boy unless it decides otherwise. Seriously people.
May 27 2011 7:09PM
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reverendwrong
Posts: 3145 - Karma: 142
If they want their kid to get picked on at school then that's fine by me, they are free to do as they pleased and we are fine to have our opinions on their choices. BUT we are not to force our opinions on them and they can't force theirs on us.
May 27 2011 7:09PM
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Download-My-Apps
Posts: 5069 - Karma: 1,017
well, it is possible that the child could be intersex, which I think the parents are doing the right thing. Minus  going public about it. I think its an interesting idea what they're doing, but very well could get complicated when the child is enrolled for school and needs to use public washrooms.
May 27 2011 7:15PM
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shibby
Posts: 7088 - Karma: -19
Anyone supporting this is fucked in the head, it's seriously the stupidest fucking thing I've ever heard of and I hope said child has a miserable life.

If I ever decide to have a kid I'm buying him a porn subscription when he's 12, bottle of whiskey at 16 and a gun at 18, he will be a fucking MAN.
May 27 2011 7:16PM
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emilyiscool
Posts: 1628 - Karma: 60
what if you have a girl?
May 27 2011 7:17PM
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spidermanatadesk
Posts: 491 - Karma: 10
You sound like a cunt.
May 27 2011 7:19PM
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shibby
Posts: 7088 - Karma: -19
You sound like a fag who diddled Barbies when he was 2 years old, I'm sorry your parents failed you so terribly.
May 27 2011 7:20PM
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nkmo.
Posts: 3994 - Karma: 285
Sounds like someone is a little insecure about their sexuality.
May 27 2011 7:26PM
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Malcolm
Posts: 15951 - Karma: 9,451
It'd be so badass if his last name was Trooper.
May 27 2011 7:33PM
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twix_182
Posts: 9248 - Karma: 27
I think the idea is to go against our cultures' ways of giving male and females different "rules" and "expectations" to go with their gender. It chips away at the persons true self image. It's an interesting idea, but yeah it probably won't go well for them in school. That's not their fault, that's societies fault collectively for creating these expectations on anyone in the first place. That's how humans are though, I guess.
May 27 2011 7:35PM
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