Camp of Champions or Momentum?

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Try harder on the search bar, there are so many threads on it. There is one in ski gabber right now with basically the exact same title as yours. But anyway this is what i just posted in that one:

+k

thanks for the input man +k

camp of champs has more stuff to do when your not killin it at the park

yea thats what ive heard. does COC and Momentum use the same park? i know that its at the T-bars on Whistler

NONONO,

COC and Momentum use the same T bar to get to the peak. Momentum has its own private T bar, and COC uses the main T bar as well as 2 private rope tows.

Momentum park...

COC park will look more or less like this, but with rope tows beside the big jump line, and the pipe?

holy shit... the COC jump line looks soooo legit!

good to know. +k

In general, what i have heard is that Momentum you learn more in a smaller park, but COC you just shred without much coaching in a big park. Better coaching at momentum.

ya... kinda looking for a bit of both but hopefully with short lineups and not a lot of people

This will be my fifth summer at Momentum and can tell you that every moment of it is amazing.

lol that was convincing

ya looks like i'll be signing up for momentum. thanks for the feedback guys +k to all of you

This will be my 6th summer at Momentum. I have never been to COC but have friends who have who seem to like it. But becuase I have never been to COC I really can't say anything about it.

Momentum on the other hand is amazing! I wouldn't keep going back if it wasn't. And no I am not some spoiled rich kid whose parents pay for them to go, I am older so I pay for it myself every year. The hotel is wicked nice. They have an indoor pool and a hot tub. Camp has an office with computers to use, movies to borrow, video games to play, and a phone to call home, or whoever, for free, even to the states. All of your meals are included. You start off the day by walking to Merlin's for buffet style breakfast. It is nice because Merlin's is right at the lift, so once you are done with breakfast you jump right on the lift.

Momentum's lane I have heard is the steepest on the glacier, but I have never noticed it being steep. They have a Tbar that is mostly Momentum, there is one other race camp I think that uses it and PSI. You have to use the other Tbar that the rest of the glacier uses, including the public, to get out at the end of the day and to get lunch, and once you do you will realize how short the lines at Momentum's Tbar are. You get a different amazing coach everyday! They offer a variety of jumps and rails. This year they are adding a privet half pipe with an airbag at the end. Now they have two airbags. One for the half pipe and one for a jump.

They have trampoline every night for anyone who wants to do it, in years past that has been at the hotel. This year they are supposed to be offering a foam pit also. All afternoon activities are included. Some activities have limited space and there are sign up sheets, but some activities are mountain biking, paintball, wake boarding, water ramping, and zip lining.

Dinner is at a different place every night so you can try out a bunch of different places in Whistler. The hotel is right in the middle of Whistler Village, you walk out the door and you have shops and the grocery store and restaurants right there. It is wicked fun to go explore the village, so many great shops.

You do video review with your coaches. Last year they did video every other day and it seemed to work out pretty good. Then they send you a dvd with all the video they took the whole week.

I like momentum because it is skiers only. I am from a mountain that is mostly snowboarders, and to be in an environment that is all skiers is amazing. But it is also full of people who are just so stoked on skiing! They don't think I am crazy like everyone else, they get it! The atmosphere is amazing. Everyone wants everyone else to do great. If you have never skied park and you land your first 180 your coach and fellow skiers are just as excited about it as you are! Everyone helps each other and encourages each other. The coaching line up is amazing. Momentum also offers a competitive program, at no extra cost, for any camper interested in gaining a more competitive edge. It includes goal setting, sports psychology, and other tips to help give you a competitive edge in ski competitions. It is totally optional, but it is a cool option to check out even if you are not that into competing, but want to see what it is about.

Let me know if you have any questions or want to know anything specifically about Momentum, I would be happy to answer anything I can! Good luck in picking the right camp for you.

From what i have experienced/heard, it is the opposite.

I learned soooooo much at COC last summer its ridiculous. And when you get to the glacier you will see how the COC park is completely massive in comparison to momentum.

Honestly, momentum is 1/3 to 1/2 moguls, so the park is smaller

thanks. ya I'm going to momentum July 9th-17th

Yeah... right.... I'll go through your rant point by point for David's clarification and everyone else's as well.

"THIS PARK IS FOR ANTS!
Largest park. Momentum has 5 lanes of which two are moguls. COC has 7 lanes all of which all are park lanes. That means we are well over double the size of PARK.  Best park... Momentum's staff always seem to get their check out's for magazines done in our park. Lines of jumps and rails as well as a rail garden, 22 foot pipe, 22' 1/4 pipe, two airbags, possibly three, the 2010 Olympic pipe builder is our park builder, private lifts. It's amazing how many more features you can pack into a park double the size of any other park. The only way to become the best all around skier is to ski the most variety of features. Only COC offers that variety. Watch the videos from every camp and check how many ways they can shoot the same feature from a different angle making you think their park is huge. Then watch our videos and check out all the features in the background of shots. The record I think is 22 features in one shot. Ridiculous. The Camp of Champions park is groomed by snowcat every night and the features are groomed the same way. Also and just as important, the flats are groomed too. You don't want to be hauling ass out of a feature and eat it in the flats due to non existent grooming. Momentum hand digs a lot of their features and grooms about 1/4 as much as we do. We have the safest park with the least amount of injuries according to Blackcomb ski patrol and The Whistler Medical clinic. They also rave about how we take such great care of the kids that do get injured and they wish the other camps did the same. Hardly a "Junkshow",  I'm sorry we fired one of your friends for not doing their job or you for being unable to hang a banner. Internal difficulties... not once we got rid of all the people that weren't up to our standards.

Why we're so blunt this year
The reason we are so blunt in out ads this year is because we are sick of half size parks pretending to be bigger than ours. I've been friends with Tim Windell forever, and while we were hanging out shooting the breeze at a friends wedding, he told us he wishes his park was as big as our park. That should put an end to that subject.

Coaches sleeping with campers... straight up didn't happen. I own the camp and I can tell you it never happened. Period.

F-ing our customers.... Ummmm nope.
We built or pricing structure to make it so you could get as little camp as you wanted or as much camp as you wanted, instead of having one all inclusive price that made you pay for stuff whether you wanted or needed it or not. The pricing structure is designed for you to take stuff way not add it on. Overnight camp is $1885 with coaching. If you want to sleep in your car and ski every day with out coaching, take away everything except park access and tickets and camp is $695. Nowhere is cheaper than that. Take away as much or as little as you want to get to the price you want. Coaching is $790. Accomm for $400. Bring a sleeping bag and save $50. Sleep in your car save $400. Shop at the grocery store so you don't have to buy dinner and save more. We didn't split the prices out to charge you more for stuff we split the prices out to save you money by giving you the option of seeing what adds up in the price of a camp and letting you decide if you want to pay for it or not. We dropped our base price by $500 this year and then split out the entire cost of camp so you could decide what you want to pay for and what you don't. So instead of F-ing campers as you put it we are actually making it so more people can come to camp instead of having one price suits all. Hardly F-ing our customers. It's called giving people as many options as possible to save them money so it's not just rich kids coming to camp. Having grown up with a single parent and ski racing, I learned at a young age the route to the Olympics is have rich parents and go to summer camp. That's why I quit racing. That is why every year I try to make camp as cheap as possible so kids that grew up like me, skiing every day of the winter with no money can have the possibility of coming to camp.  The tax is the gov, so that is not camp charging you more. I hate the HST as much or more than most people. It's a straight up rip off.

On snow time
We get so many people that come to camp that can't believe how long the day is at COC and how much time we put in on snow. We always thought a day was a day, you got on the lift when it opened and came down when it closed. Former Windells staffers, coaches, and campers have told us that they were lucky to get on the hill by 10:30 and we done at 2:30. You don't read that on their website. At COC you can get on the lift at 7:15 and ski with your coach from 8:00 AM when you get to the glacier. You download at 3. That is 3 hours longer a day on snow. See the previous paragraph for the reason we pack in so much stuff into your camp, because no matter how much or little you paid to come to camp, it's still a lot of money and we want you to get every drop of skiing and fun you can from your trip to camp.

Snow Quality
The reason the glacier closes at the end of COC is because there isn't enough business to keep it open.  Momentum and COC both only run when the snow quality can be guaranteed to be the same from the first week of camp to the lat week of camp. You pay a lot of money to come to camp and if I couldn't give you the exact same quality the last week of camp as we gave kids the first week of camp, I'd feel like I was ripping you off. That's why we do 4 weeks. I'm sure John at Momentum feels the same way.

Tom Wallisch
Pro's come and go between camps. If Tom hated COC so much why is he coming back this summer? Junk show? Huh? Whatever on that. One man's gold is another man's junk show. Doug and Jeff of Newschoolers always tell us how much they love coming to COC because the park is so great and the camp is so organized. I'll take their word for it. You can too or not.

After Skiing Activities
COC has so much to do after the lifts close it's nuts, we have all the same activities that Whistler has to offer that Momentum uses, water ramps, golf, Monkido, movies etc etc, but we also build our own 60,000 square foot giant playground in The Compound. A Big Air Bag to huck into on bikes, a perfect 48 foot wide miniramp, dodge ball, bball, crazy inflatables, multi trampolines, flat and on angle (the video should be up tomorrow), dryslope rails, a mulch pit for bikes, and so much other stuff I can't even think of it all. I will have a new feature going in this summer in The Compound that will change the summer game again. I can't show it till Camp A, but I'm sure everyone will copy it for the following summer, like they did with jump design, rail design, private lifts, air bags, superpipes, coaching techniques. When you come to COC you get the camp that is leading the way not following.  The Dorm is basic, but what more do you need? Nothing to break and no hotel guest/kid haters means more fun. Being up there means we can crank the tunes, get stupid, and have more fun than should be allowed and have the best week of our lives.

I hope that clears up any questions anyone reading this might have. If not hit me back here or send me an email to info(at)campofchampions.com or call me at 888-997-2267. I'd love to hear from you.

Original question poster - I hope you make it to COC this summer, but if you don't, when you ride up the T-bar at the end of the day, try not to cry when you cruise by our park wishing you hadn't listened to some hater. We've been here for 23 years and we'll be here for you for the next 23 years as well so either way, this summer or a summer in the future... We'll see you soon

Ken Achenbach
Camp of Champions Founder, Owner, and Director.

id say coc is the best even though i have not been there yet, i have been to momentum and windells i like momentum better, coc has a way better park, but the sessionos are only like 3 days of skiing i think(could be wrong) and they have used the public t bar which is a drag but this year they have two new lifts so the lines should be smaller on the tbar and you could just use one of the said new ones. but i thiink you get more skiing at momentum there really is no lift line except in the morning when the racers use it and you get more days on snow

I back that up...and being that I've skied on that glacier for the past 12 years you should take my word for it, although I will say (as I've said many times before) that no matter what camp you go to you're going to have the time of your life :)

And the statement about Tom leaving COC after one day is complete BS. He came up for Newschoolers Week and was there for almost the entire week, but had to leave early because his Mom was flying to Mount Hood for his birthday so they could spend some time together.

+1 for CoC.

cool game.

Can I resurrect this thread please.
I'm from the UK and wondering which one to choose. CoC comes in cheaper and promises pretty much exactly the same as Momentum, but reading the comments above most people seem to recommend Momentum.
I know these comments are 6 years old so I'm wondering if anyone has anymore up to-date opinions for me. Cheers.

jmckay7Can I resurrect this thread please.
I'm from the UK and wondering which one to choose. CoC comes in cheaper and promises pretty much exactly the same as Momentum, but reading the comments above most people seem to recommend Momentum.
I know these comments are 6 years old so I'm wondering if anyone has anymore up to-date opinions for me. Cheers.

I'm also looking at momentum this summer but now I'm stuck between the two. Would also love for this to revive

panoskisI'm also looking at momentum this summer but now I'm stuck between the two. Would also love for this to revive

I went to coc last year and had a great time, definately the best trip of my life. I really wouldn't say that either camp is better than the other it just depends what your goals for you trip are. For me I just love skiing and wanted to take a dope trip to shred a lot and learn some new tricks and Coc was perfect for that. Most of the kids at COC were in the same boat as me, not really into comps, just kids that wana shred, get better, and maybe make an edit. COC is also super loose, as ar as coaching and schedueling, you can pretty much do whatever you want.
While I never went through the momentum park or anything, I definately got the vide that there were a lot more kids there who were into comps and were at momentum to "train". They did group stretching in the morning and their park had more slope style features, while COC had QPs and jibs along with traditional features.
So yeah I'd say youd have to ask yourself what your goals are in order to choose the right camp for you, but no matter what youre gonna have an unreal time and should be so excited, I can't wait to get back!
btw the snowboarders in COC didnt bother me at all either a lot of them were pretty cool.

Id go for coc either way.