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Need help on filming: Just picked up a Canon T2i

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Fourdown
Posts: 15 - Karma: 10
I worked with a GoPro the past two ski seasons and last skate season, first editing on a PC and since October on a MacBook Pro running Final Cut Studio 4. I am very pleased with the work I have produced but wanted to step it up more. After a bunch of research I picked up a Canon T2i. Now, I would like to pick up some quality lenses. I will be shooting both skating and (mostly) skiing so I will need a long range lens which will be mostly used for skiing shots on larger jumps (I ride Breck in Colorado, both Park Lane and Freeway) and a close range, wide lens (should I go with a wide angle, fish eye, or macro lens) for all closeup shots. At first I was going to go with the body only kit but ended up going with the package including the stock 18-55 lens. Does anyone have any suggestions on lenses I should get as well as a quality fluid moving tripod? Prices in a few ranges?

Is it worth going with the T2i or should I go in a different route with a high quality Hd video cam?

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.
May 1 2011 10:13PM
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steep
Posts: 6063 - Karma: 298
what's your budget?
May 1 2011 10:24PM
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[-mvee-]
Posts: 1713 - Karma: 10
the t2i is a great camera. i would never trade mine for a rad hd helmet cam. play around with it and practice filming with it.
May 1 2011 10:24PM
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MatRich
Posts: 4789 - Karma: 1,813
you picked up a T2i so your going to be magicaly amazing since you bought a big camera.


Im just trying to say that you should learn more than just gopro filming because to actualy use a t2i well is very complex( and most people think they do, they are wrong.) You should get a smaller camera with filming options and easier settings (at least less dissadvantages to work with) instead of buying a big camera and acting like a cinematographer.
May 1 2011 10:25PM
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B.Snow
Posts: 1859 - Karma: 92
I'm going to be picking a canon body up soon too, but I'm not really sure which one yet... DSLR's have some great advantages over traditional camcorders but also some pretty significant disadvantages. I'm assuming you know about these since you said that you've done research so I won't even go there.

I would recommend starting out with primes. Definitely consider getting a 28mm or 35mm first and working with that for a while. Then maybe consider moving into something a little wider or some longer lenses.

I'm starting out with a 50mm a 28mm and an 85mm(not 100% sure about the 85mm). Eventually I might get the tokina 11-16mm or a canon 70 -200mm.
May 1 2011 11:23PM
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Fourdown
Posts: 15 - Karma: 10
@Steep: My budget is around 700-900 for the two lenses. I know, telephotos can get really expensive.

@mvee: I totally agree. I went to film school from 99-01 and did a lot of work back then but it was all analog and just the beginning of digital film work. I took time off as I got into another field, but as convenient as a GoPro is the focus on filming requires better equipment. I have only used high end video cams, digital and analog, in the past and this will be my first time using a DSLR for film purposes.

@MatRich: Quite a negative approach to assisting someone. I understand your feelings and resentment to people who these days just get some high end equipment and try to be the king if video, but for someone who is asking for assistance all you're really doing is trying to put down someone who is trying to learn. Yes, I have lots of film experience so I'm not just some noob. But, I have not used a DSLR for filming purposes yet. And, someone getting good equipment and willing to take the time to learn is not someone to be put down. It is to be encouraged. The digital age has aloud professional quality for a much lower budget in the past. So, I applaud those who get out there and try their best.

@B.Snow: Yeah, there are some disadvantages that I am hoping to cure somewhat with a self-made glide cam mount. I don't plan on doing fast pans so that should not be much of an issue. Most of the shots will be set shots or flowing follow cams on rails and some small jumps. On larger jumps where a flowing short pan can be done the DSLR should be functional. For off-jump follow cams the GoPro will still be sufficient. For now I am using the stock lens it came with and have been looking at this fish eye. http://www.amazon.com/Rokinon-FE8M-C-Fisheye-Canon-Black/dp/B002LTXQUE/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1303924941&sr=8-7
I still have plenty of time and test use before I get into longer range cameras. I will be at Liberty SnowFlex Centre three different weekends this summer, and that with skating will give me a ton of practice to get used to using the camera by next season.

Are there any tips and suggestions out there on different style shots, camera function tricks, etc…?
May 2 2011 11:18AM
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MatRich
Posts: 4789 - Karma: 1,813
I wasnt trying to put you down. from what you said, you have only used a gopro. This is not at all the same game. my advice is for you to go towards something more manageable at first. I sell cameras for a living and I see a lot of people taking a step forward that is too big and they are lost. I get tonnes of clients buying the big camera because its baller and they think that having a good camera will make them good. I often get returns on those buyers and I know that a bunch of them are going to try realy hard to learn but theres so much to handle that they just give up. If you feel your up to it and you actualy know how to control exposure and light behaviors then go for it, just expect it to be realy hard if you havnt had more experience than a gopro.

Im not putting you down, I used to think I was good and I handle 5 thousand dollar cameras and I now know I am far from being as good as I think I am.

What I would suggest you do if you want to go for a dslr is borrow a friends camera with settings like iso (gain) aperture and shutter speed and start playing with that to get familiar and get learned on all of the negative sides of dslrs because theres a lot of them.

good luck.
May 2 2011 11:32AM
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Fourdown
Posts: 15 - Karma: 10
Quite understandable and I appreciate your honest critique. I do have experience with SLRs as far as still photography, so I figured I'd take a dive into this. I didn't spend past my disposable income and jump into a 7D for the reason that I thought it would be too much at first. While I do want much better results I am up for and excited with the challenge that the T2i will bring me. I'm a school teacher and am off for just under three months. So, I have a lot of time to just tool around with the camera, learn, and experiment. I'm definitely not one of those people who takes it out of the box and straight to the slopes expecting perfection and high quality film. That being said, what types of things do you suggest I try it out with? Will I get similar responses with ISO, Ap, and shutter speed in video as I do with still? I have already picked up circular polarizing b&w filters to start working with. I should be pretty good to go other than not yet having a decent tripod.
May 2 2011 1:38PM
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KarmaInitiative
Posts: 2028 - Karma: 174
Agreed, I spent 3 years with a HV30 before upgrading to a t2i, I learned a ton on the HV40 and would have been totally lost if i just jumped into it with a t2i
May 2 2011 2:31PM
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blakroc
Posts: 2323 - Karma: 28
Saying that everyone should take babysteps because some people can't handle the learning curve isn't good advice. It's not the camera it's the person. Alot of those people just want good pics and have no interest in learning how to use it so obviously there going to return it or never understand what there doing. In this kids case he has a genuine interest in filming and has been doing so for two years, it's really not that hard to learn if you have any sort of dedication.

I agree you should get a prime, 28mm is what i would suggest because with your sensor it will be around a 50mm focal length which I personally love. From there it depends on what you think you need more a zoom or a wide angle.
May 2 2011 2:33PM
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HeadyTopper
Posts: 1170 - Karma: 97
wide angle lens- tokina 11-16 ($650 roughly) *AMAZING*
fisheye - sigma 10mm ($600 roughly)
standard - canon 50mm 1.4 ($460 roughly)

(correct me if i am wrong with the pricing, i don't remember them off the top of my head)

^my three favorite lenses
May 2 2011 6:58PM
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steezysteeze
Posts: 1739 - Karma: 1,012
http://opteka.com/opt65.aspx

That's a good fisheye that won't break the bank. And it should work on a t2i nicely.
May 2 2011 7:35PM
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blatt
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 3,097
In my opinion it's not that tough to learn video on a DSLR. A few hours of playing around and you should have some sort of idea on what you're doing. It might take a while to figure out an on hill routine (I'm still having troubles getting perfect shots). The switch is only hard if you make it hard, I made the same switch. As for a wide angle lens I'd suggest the tokina 11-16 or the canon 17-40 L if you're feeling baller and like shots a tad more close up. Idk much about fisheyes or standards but there's a really good thread with a long list of lenses. Also check out www.the-digital-picture.com for reviews on almost every canon lens I can think of.
May 3 2011 1:29AM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
I'm gonna have to agree on this one
May 3 2011 8:04AM
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iLLbiLLy
Posts: 2865 - Karma: 2,631
uh i would say the T2I is a good entry level cam. I mean, yea its harder to film with a DSLR but its not rocket science. If your gonna spend around that price range its the best quality you'll get. Shots might be out of focus and overexposed at first but you'll get the hang of it.
May 3 2011 8:07AM
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MatRich
Posts: 4789 - Karma: 1,813
Its easy to make a nice shot visualy bit to understand what your doing so its good in post is a lot of work. You need to shoot at an apropriate frame rate and shutter speed for certain things. You need to shoot a certain way to color. You need to understand principles of light to shoot how you want. Then to have a shot in focus means guessing it since most people dont buy a viewfinder. I took in a lot of footage this year from t2i shooters, their shots looked good but once you start doing anything to the footage all of their shooting flaws stand out. The thing with dslrs is that every decision is very aparent. The bigger sensor amplifies certain aspects which, if wrong, will stand out like crazy. And one thing with dslrs is that to have a system that shoots as flawlessly as a regular cam you need to buy tonnes of shit and most people dont do that so the flaws stand out.
May 3 2011 10:15AM
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eheath
Posts: 61653 - Karma: 123,535
final cut studio 4 doesnt exist.
May 3 2011 12:06PM
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HeadyTopper
Posts: 1170 - Karma: 97
only final cut express 4.0, he must have confused the two
May 3 2011 4:14PM
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Fourdown
Posts: 15 - Karma: 10
Sorry, a typing error. I am running with Final Cut Studio: Final Cut Pro, Motion, and Compressor. I have not used any of the other applications thus far. In fact, I've only used Motion twice for two previous edits. I would like to get into experimenting and learning to work with Color this summer.

I started testing out manual focusing, ISO speeds, Aperture settings, and Shutter speeds today on various still, panning, and follow shots. The panning and still shots were done with a basic tripod and the follow shots were walking shots, obviously being as smooth as possible but a glide cam is in my near future. I've done still photography with SLRs in the past so I do understand the concepts of each manual function, it will just be new to me to learn and get used to shooting video with a DSLR. I am trying out as many different situations as I can to best prepare myself for next winter. Any suggestions on different types of things I should shoot and try out?

Making corrections in post-production is my forte. So, while yes I am still learning and there will be blemishes in my work I am not concerned yet. With the time from now until October when the slopes start opening up again I am quite confident in my learning. I also still have A-Basin and Loveland Pass to work with for learning in the meantime.

Again, thank you everyone for your honest responses, input, suggestions, etc… Please, keep them coming.
May 3 2011 5:43PM
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alexat955
Posts: 2732 - Karma: 112
Adorama photography TV has some good tutorials on how to use your dslr for video, mostly targeted at photagraphers who want to get into video. check those out
May 4 2011 10:41PM
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cwillygood
Posts: 6831 - Karma: 1,829
i honestly hate the look of fish eyes it think it ruins everything but that me opinion
May 7 2011 2:49PM
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SKI.ING
Posts: 2695 - Karma: 2,535
All good comments, but you don't need prime lenses at all. Those are for super fast shooting which comes in handy in low light situations. If it is solely for skiing then obviously you don't want your exposure all blown out so why waste money for something you won't use. Now if you're going to be shooting ALOT during the night then go ahead and get one prime.
May 7 2011 9:11PM
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eheath
Posts: 61653 - Karma: 123,535
you really are saying primes are worthless except for low light? jesus christ. you realize a low fstop doesn't mean its gonna be blown out, you have shutter, iso and ND filters that can also adjust if you want a super shallow DOF, which is only created by teles and primes.
May 9 2011 3:26AM
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Brock.
Posts: 5698 - Karma: 1,332
Im surprised that ergonomics is being so terribly overlooked in this thread...

The main struggle you are going to have with a DSLR is simply its shape and ergonomics. It is a lot different than shooting with an HVXesque camera because you are basically holding a cube. You may want to look into a glidecam or some kind of stabilizing device.
May 9 2011 9:09AM
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TijmenDal
Posts: 4849 - Karma: 1,295
Just lens recommendations from my side:

Fish-eye - Samyang 8mm (the one you already eyed)
UWA lens - Canon 10-22mm (much better flare control than the Tokina which is important, especially on sunny mountains, albeit a little more expensive)
Sigma 30mm f/1.4 - wide prime
SMC-Takumar 50mm f/1.4 (100$ more or less), M42 lens, manual focus, but that doesn't matter for video. Sick lens
Canon 70-200 f/4 for those long shots. Very good lens for the price. f/2.8 is really unnecessary if you ask me.

That should pretty much cover all focal lengths you could wanna use.

I'd start out with a prime - probably the 50mm f/1.4. Don't get the Canon f/1.4, waste of money - especially for video!
May 9 2011 9:36AM
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eheath
Posts: 61653 - Karma: 123,535
10-22 over the 11-16... hmmm
May 9 2011 11:13PM
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Brock.
Posts: 5698 - Karma: 1,332
I dont see why everybody loves the tokina, there is loads more barrel and and softness on the corners + it looks like shit at 2.8... Or maybe Im just jelly because I bought the 10-22.
May 10 2011 10:40AM
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eheath
Posts: 61653 - Karma: 123,535
i dunno why you'd shoot it wide open...
May 10 2011 6:06PM
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TravelsTI
Posts: 1000 - Karma: 353
I tried both quite a bit before I made a purchase and the Tokina definitely was better IMO.  Much sharper, better construction, higher aperture, and for your $ to quality comparison it is a much better purchase. Super happy with it.
May 10 2011 6:20PM
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SKI.ING
Posts: 2695 - Karma: 2,535
No, I'm not saying that at all. I own a prime lens myself but it sounds like he is on a budget and mainly wants to use the camera for skiing so why not get a more versatile lens? Geez, if all of us had the money like you do to invest in ND filters, faders and step up rings, etc. then obviously prime lenses kickass. But on a SKI BUDGET for a regular kid they don't. Just trying to give him the way to use as little money as possible
May 17 2011 8:38PM
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eheath
Posts: 61653 - Karma: 123,535
what makes you think i have all this money? and 2 or 3 old primes will be cheaper than one nice zoom
May 18 2011 6:22PM
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eheath
Posts: 61653 - Karma: 123,535
also, true film makers only use primes. true film techniques say to move your camera
May 18 2011 6:25PM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
not true, some of the nicer cinema lenses are PL mount zooms, granted they don't use the zoom feature much
May 18 2011 7:29PM
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1337
Posts: 31059 - Karma: 29,335
^ that being said a majority of lenses used are in fact primes
May 18 2011 7:30PM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,386
I own the Tokina, it looks great at 2.8. I'm crazy impressed with this lens in all conditions. I shot it in massive cathedrals in Italy at 1/13 second, handheld at 2.8 and always got great super sharp results. The corners get a little soft at 2.8 but are sharp by 4.

The Canon is a good lens as well, it's nice to have the larger zoom range as 11-16 is pretty small. The tradeoff is the f3.5-4.5 vs. f2.8
May 18 2011 7:41PM
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MatRich
Posts: 4789 - Karma: 1,813
no. everything is out for this year
May 19 2011 8:59AM
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PBraunstein
Posts: 1448 - Karma: 3,804
there is such an insane amount of misinformation in this thread that it's scary.

First off, anyone trying to argue that primes aren't the quintessential lens' in film making are idiots. as heath said- move the camera, it always looks much better.

second, a t2i is a CONSUMER camera. that means that it is made for the general public, people that arent versed in cameras, which means that anyone can buy it, and make it work. everyone knows how to use the internet. you can learn anything from how to make a bomb to taking a full college course on the internet, why wouldnt someone be able to figure out how to use a camera that isnt that hard to figure out. Obviously the cons of dslr film-making are greater noticed in any sort of work than an amateur using an actual video camera, but so what?

third, ive found that lenses are really a personal choice. youre not going to know what you like until you actually spend some time with each of these lenses.   The more and more i film, the less i use the most expensive (and what i thought was going to be the most important) lens i originally purchased, my 17-40L.  I use my budget old glass much, much more now. and when i need something superwide, ive found the look of the sigma 10-20 to be an overall sharper and more colorful lens then the 10-17L.  for a more normal, and very high quality "wide" look, ive been using my olympus 28 /3.5 from the 80's (that i picked up for under $80) and ive been VERY happy.

you're better off doing some actual research on your own then coming on here and listening to the incredible amount of shit that gets thrown around. you're gonna spend some money if you want to have fun, but in the end, im sure it'll be worth it. the nice things about lenses is their value to doesnt change a terrible amount.. buy a used lens, play with it, if you dont like it, sell it for the same price.
May 19 2011 12:19PM
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TravelsTI
Posts: 1000 - Karma: 353
I had the exact same problem choosing between zooms and primes, learned that primes were definitely the way to go,  my favorite might be my  135 F/2 L or 85 f/1.8.  Anyways, the way i figured this out was trying all of the lenses I was interested in on BorrowLenses.com, might spend a little extra renting-but it's worth it in the end knowing exactly what you want.
May 19 2011 1:20PM
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McLeod
Posts: 1762 - Karma: 1,582
thanks for providing some reason in this shit storm paul.
May 19 2011 7:54PM
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