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Backcountry 101

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lukewalnuts
Posts: 2730 - Karma: 152
Alright hopefully I don't get to much hate on this thread but I might go on a trip to Whistler or Park City and I'm wondering what does it take to go out into the backcountry, what do I need to know? Will I die? What stuff do I need? Any classes I should take? I am just a noob to this stuff and I want to learn more

Thanks all you NSers friends
Apr 26 2011 10:46PM
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EmperorKuzco
Posts: 6660 - Karma: 254
Get a bc guide they're always wicked chill and show you awesome spots and shred
Apr 26 2011 10:53PM
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lukewalnuts
Posts: 2730 - Karma: 152
like what all equipment do I need? where do you think I should go and how long should I went until I head out in the backcountry
Apr 26 2011 10:54PM
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Dntel.
Posts: 1026 - Karma: 21
Sounds like dude knows the area, and take his advice. It's not worth risking your shit not knowing how to keep yourself out of trouble. And trouble is LURKING, and it will COCKSLAP you.


J/k, but seriously, go get this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Free-Skiing-How-Adapt-Mountain/dp/9163313138


read it, take a class, get the gear, and then get balls deep in some righteous untracked pow!
Apr 26 2011 10:55PM
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sector_6_films
Posts: 144 - Karma: 75
ii got much hate when i posted something like this ahah
Apr 26 2011 10:57PM
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Piste.Off
Posts: 11586 - Karma: 1,860
at least avy 1+ classes, beacon, probe, shovel, brain, guide, friends
Apr 26 2011 10:58PM
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lukewalnuts
Posts: 2730 - Karma: 152
ha umm. ya that sucks i didn't get any hate yet sooooo........... sucks for you hahaha
Apr 26 2011 10:59PM
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Radio
Posts: 946 - Karma: 12

im getting in to BC too. i got a probe, a shovle a pack(not too big), avalanch transeaver. and those are just the musts. to be realy safe your going to need more. once you get more into it, and you will, i would sugest getting skins.

Apr 26 2011 11:02PM
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Sharknuts.
Posts: 339 - Karma: 953
u will probably die if are hoping that asking people on NS will help u in the back country
Apr 26 2011 11:05PM
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Sharknuts.
Posts: 339 - Karma: 953
yea and i am one of those people. i compete in the Junior Freeskiing World Tour. I have my Avalanche Level 2 certification. im just saying the backcountry is a dangerous place, it deserves a lot of respect. the mountains are bigger than u. respect them
Apr 26 2011 11:13PM
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SPskier543
Posts: 2413 - Karma: 324
Read up on a lot of stuff online, get some basic gear, check avy conditions online and pick the best day/days to go out and you should be good. As long as your not retarded and have some common sense and basic knowledge of BC stuff, you will be fine in the milder areas and slopes, there are some nice areas right out side the gates at the canyons which are pretty safe.
Apr 26 2011 11:19PM
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Sharknuts.
Posts: 339 - Karma: 953
this
Apr 26 2011 11:22PM
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Skithedeep
Posts: 645 - Karma: 39
there is a very obvious reason you got hate and he isnt.
Apr 26 2011 11:23PM
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Z-Juice
Posts: 3151 - Karma: 1,504

find a class, you'll know everything

Apr 26 2011 11:26PM
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skier_boy26
Posts: 11295 - Karma: 502
You got hate because you were flaunting your naivety and dismissing your retardation because you were the "filmer."


This guy is asking because he does not know. He acknowledges that. You did not.


Anyway, you need beacon, probe, shovel, partner or two, mad skills, and familiarity with current conditions and terrain. Simply put: if you're seriously looking to put some BC time in Utah, BC, or elsewhere, be willing to put a decent investment in time and money. Gear is not cheap (for most) and you should, for your sake and others, take some courses on avalanches, route finding, all that shit.
Apr 26 2011 11:33PM
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SPskier543
Posts: 2413 - Karma: 324
If he's just going out west for a few days and only doing mild BC stuff, there's no need to take a class. Everything you can learn in a class you can learn on the Internet, which has everything you need and can answer any questions you have. I would get a probe, a receiver, and a shovel and a nice pack to start. Try to get a black diamond pack with the avy lung built in, they are very nice and you don't really notice them on your back and they can hold a good amount if gear. And maybe try to find a local guy on the lift or at the gate or something that can give youbsome insight on the best and more low risk areas.
Apr 26 2011 11:35PM
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maxwell666
Posts: 554 - Karma: 20
so so so wrong, you cant learn to locate a buried friend in your living room with a single beacon, dont listen to this guy, take a course. if by backcountry you just mean ducking into the trees or non groomed lift accesed terrain (srsly lots of people i know think thats what back country is) at least you have lots of other people around to save you, if you plan on skinning or hiking out somewhere, do yourself a favor and take the course.
Apr 26 2011 11:58PM
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derpina
Posts: 2186 - Karma: 55
Anyone who hates on this kid needs to get a fucking grip and I'm sorry that happened to you...

He's trying to learn and get educated and be safe, absolutely nothing wrong with that.

Props to him!
Apr 27 2011 12:10AM
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RossB
Posts: 67 - Karma: 13
Blackcomb (and Whistler) have some excellent lift accessed backcountry... You can buy a single ride up ticket (its a bit expensive) and ski some nice lines out there. Definitely get a guide if you haven't done backcountry before. To get the backcountry ticket, Whistler requires you to have a beacon, probe and shovel. And of course you need backcountry skis/bindings/skins if you're going to do REAL backcountry skiing and not just slackcountry. And don't worry, people aren't trying to hate, it's just that in the backcountry, safety is a huge issue and it requires tons of experience to understand all of these issues. In the long run, take an avy course definitely. As for short term, get a guide for a day and you'll learn a lot.
Apr 27 2011 12:23AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
Buying a beacon, probe, and shovel prepares you for the backcountry like buying a calculator prepares you for a calculus test.

Buying a beacon, probe, and shovel, taking an avy 1 class prepares you for backcountry travel like buying a calculator and taking an algebra 1 class prepares you for a calculus test.

Do you get where I am going at?
Apr 27 2011 12:26AM
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tBatt
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 580
Beacon, Shovel, Probe, brains, and a good, smart partner.

Grab this book and read up on it. It will give you a very good start. Taking an any class is a good idea too.

http://www.amazon.com/Snow-Sense-Evaluating-Avalanche-Hazard/dp/0964399407/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1303878522&sr=1-1
Apr 27 2011 12:29AM
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Dntel.
Posts: 1026 - Karma: 21
so much wrong with this post. You must ride loveland pass huh?
Apr 27 2011 8:10PM
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SPskier543
Posts: 2413 - Karma: 324
nope, i live in crested butte for winters and do bc sled access stuff near the gunnison and white river forest areas. May i ask whats wroong with that post?
Apr 27 2011 8:24PM
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Radio
Posts: 946 - Karma: 12
You can learn a lot off the web but It should be known the the backcountry is a dangerous place and should not be taken lightly. If your not willing to pay for a guide at least take some avalanche safety classes
Apr 27 2011 8:44PM
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SPskier543
Posts: 2413 - Karma: 324

i learned all of my bc knowledge from the internet and some from experienced local people and i have not gotten in trouble once since i started doing bc stuff when i was around 13. ill try to find all of the sites i used, there in a folder on my other computer and theres a bunch of really good info in there

Apr 27 2011 8:48PM
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skier_boy26
Posts: 11295 - Karma: 502
I think what's missing is context and other variables.

Sure, the information is on the web and books. It is out there. It is a great place to start. In the field, however, there are things that won't be as apparent that could be readily learned from a course.

I taught myself crevasse rescue from books and using trees in my backyard. I followed that up with legitimate training before I actually did anything because there were things that seasoned pros were aware of but I was not.

I guess that goes to say, if you went on the internet information alone: what is enough information to safely and competently travel in the backcountry? How would you know that it is enough? Appropriate?
Apr 27 2011 8:49PM
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SPskier543
Posts: 2413 - Karma: 324

i just read as much as possible and went to different sites until i could read something and know exactly what they are talking about. And when you know you feel comfotable enough to put a friend or another persons life in your hands

Apr 27 2011 8:56PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
and you practiced finding a buried beacon right? and you probly started going out with folks who had been doing it a while right?

how can you practice with one beacon? who's gonna be down to show a random newb around the BC, when he cant save anyone?

the best way to learn is to go out with a group of people with years of experience traveling in the local BC, and just ask questions constantly.
Apr 27 2011 9:17PM
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skier_boy26
Posts: 11295 - Karma: 502
I'm sorry but that is a shitty way to learn.
Apr 27 2011 9:22PM
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SPskier543
Posts: 2413 - Karma: 324
hey, it worked for me, i have skied in the backcountry for 7 years (19 now) and i have never had any problems or have been in any situations that i did not know what do
Apr 27 2011 9:26PM
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.RYAN66
Posts: 5381 - Karma: 235
in responses to all of the posts about reading shit on the internet, some things you learn only from experiance, the internet is a great place to start but you learn so much from actually being out there. make sure you go out with someone who is experianced.
Apr 28 2011 7:56AM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124

strong post. Classes or reading can never teach you ski cuts. Most incidents involve some form of group dynamics you can't teach stuff like that. The best thing you can have in the BC specially when begining is strong experienced partners and the best way to find and keep good partners is to be one.

Don't flake or be late to meetings/trailheads, Be in shape and able to break your share of trail, Have your rescue and 1st aid skills dialed, as well as your equipment. Be vocal with your obs and concerns, know when to turn it down a notch or back off from an intended line.

If you're gonna ask a lot of questions or taking safety breaks be holdin and packin/rollin the kine, Give partners a reason to want to tour/teach you, cause if you give them reasons to not call you they won't.

Apr 28 2011 10:34AM
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Radio
Posts: 946 - Karma: 12
It's true that they are more unlikely but if you do get caught in one ur fucked because the snow is already so dense. Go with a group and take the right precausions is my advice
Apr 28 2011 2:41PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
call the city, i think your meter is broken and needs to be fixed ASAP.
Apr 28 2011 2:43PM
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cooper.fry
Posts: 2229 - Karma: 34
Avvy gear and classes.
Apr 28 2011 3:05PM
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skithesprings
Posts: 9086 - Karma: 1,349
just go ski fucking slackcountry, if you're going to be there for a couple days its not worth it to buy a shovel, tranciever, probe, pack, skins, a/t setup. just use the gate access stuff that you can get back to the lift from with minimal effort, trust me.
Apr 28 2011 3:25PM
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fouldsys
Posts: 7404 - Karma: 39
if your just going on a trip, hire a guide if you want to get into the backcountry. there really is no point in doing a course or buying equipment if your just going on a trip. if you think you want to get into the bc scene seriously than those things might be worth the investment, but definitely go on a couple guided tours before you venture out there on your own. the most important thing in my opinion is experience. once you have many days under your belt, a lot of beacon and route finding practice, and you know the terrain your getting into, thats when you should go out alone (without a guide i mean, you need a partner of course). books are great, and they definitely open your eyes to things you would never have thought about, things even your guide probably wont mention to you, such as group dynamics and group related factors. some great books i have read and recommend are:

Backcountry Avalanche Safety - Tony Daffern
Backcountry Skiing, Skills for Ski Touring and Ski Mountaineering - Martin Volken, Scott Schell, and Margaret Wheeler
The Avalanche Handbook - David McClung and Peter Schraerer (you wont understand a lot of this unless you have a basic understanding of physics, chemistry and engineering. this book is often referred to the avalanche bible. unlike other books i have read, this book has a really good chapter on the psychology of backcountry travel that i definitely found helpful and informative.)

that being said, these books are no substitute for proper training and experience, they should only supplement them. as for information in magazines and on the internet, i often find that these sources lack the depth and professional analysis that the aforementioned books do. so i would stay away from them.

take what i have said with a grain of salt. ive only been skiing the bc for about two and a half seasons so by no means do i consider myself an expert on the subject.
Apr 28 2011 4:13PM
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fouldsys
Posts: 7404 - Karma: 39
also if you have any questions on the whistler backcountry feel free to ask. there is a lot of shit you can do here.
Apr 28 2011 4:14PM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
because when you go out the gates, its patrolled just the same as in bounds obviously...no danger there
Apr 28 2011 11:54PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
NS avvy advice is always golden.

with the exception of an exempt few.
Apr 29 2011 12:00AM
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shocker611
Posts: 2599 - Karma: 423
There is SO much more that I learned from a field session rather than just classes/internet. I really don't think you can learn enough from internet and for the kid that has been riding for 7 years in bc with no problems, it only takes one time. When kids hear "just read stuff online" theyre gonna search and its gonna say the basics, have a beacon, shovel probe, and check conditions. It doesnt go into orientation, different types of snow, weak layers, the effect of groppel, etc etc etc that you really need a field session to understand well. I would agree with everyone else here and say to just ski some side country. Plenty of it around in utah.. something like the various traverses off of 9990 (canyons), rock gardens (brighton), many of the traverses at snowbird/alta.. you will still get great snow but there will be a much lower chance of slides due to the constant compaction that these areas experience. Just be safe out there, WAY too many people die from slides
Apr 29 2011 12:09AM
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skithesprings
Posts: 9086 - Karma: 1,349
chances you get in a rescue situation skiing slackcountry that has been bombed and had avy control work done are pretty low.

all i'm saying is that if you're going on a trip for a couple days you're not going to be skiing really high risk areas its not worth it to pretend you're going to be mountaineering. don't duck ropes into closed areas, access slackcountry through open gates, ski with a group, don't be stupid, and you'll be fine.

or listen to the NS experts and go buy 2000 dollars worth of gear when its likely that 90% of your day will be spent in bounds. that transceiver should do him a lot of good when he gets lost on the way to the park.


Apr 29 2011 2:27AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
when you go out of gates, chief, that means it is unpatrolled, and uncontrolled (not bombed). It is called slackcountry because it is an area where slackers can access the BC with out having to earn their turns. Its safer than going deep into the BC, but unless you know what your doing, you should leave avalanche mitigation to the ski patrol.

in anycase, if someone is coming from the east coast for a week trip, there will be a good amount of terrain that will be over their head. and if the snow sucks inbounds, then it will assuradly have developed some kind of gnarly crust out in the BC.
Apr 29 2011 2:48AM
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skithesprings
Posts: 9086 - Karma: 1,349
OP is from ohio, rides afterbangs, and wanted to know about skiing backcountry at park city. better strap that kid up with a shovel, probe, and transceiver so he can ski jupiter bowl...

yeah, i'm judging him by his profile, but i'm going to guess he has no business venturing outside resort boundaries in the first place.
Apr 29 2011 2:57AM
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shocker611
Posts: 2599 - Karma: 423
they bomb a lot of the backcountry around brighton area, and it is rode enough to where a lot of the weak layers dont develope.. while it obviously is still dangerous, its a lot better than true backcountry
Apr 29 2011 3:03AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
resorts will ONLY bomb areas that will slide onto their property, otherwise its a waste of money. THe weak layers are still there, but the snow CAN become more consolidated so no 10ft crowns develop. but just as we see patrol triggered in bounds slides all the time after a 10+inch dump, same thing happens out in the wild too.
Apr 29 2011 3:10AM
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kungfusteeze
Posts: 700 - Karma: 47
If you are only going on a trip. Get a guide at least. Even if it's slackcountry there is risk. Especially if you don't have any experience. All it takes is one bad turn and shit goes wrong. Take it from someone who has had to be airlifted out after misjudging a line while even skiing with an experienced friend who happens to be a guide. Taking risks in the park can cause some serious injury. But risk in the BC can cost you your life. Just take precaution. We don't need to lose an NSer and you don't wanna get get screwed because you made one wrong choice.
Apr 29 2011 5:01AM
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oldskewl
Posts: 457 - Karma: 10

I am going to relate this to Hanggliding.  And try to explain why having gear and reading just isnt enough.  I used to instruct and guide hanggliding.  Inexperienced eastern hanggliding pilots would come out west lookng for action and adventure.  High altitude desert flying is ROCK AND ROLL.  Powerful thermals, dust devils, the sierra wave, etc.  These guys had read all about it...but they did not have some one hold thier hand and point shit to them so they hired me.  There is shit that you have to  be aware of that eastern pilots NEVER even think about (sound familiar)

Most of the time they could get by and survive (I have seen a lot of guys come out west solo and do this - and I can always spot 'em from a mile away.  I just kind of wish them luck).  However, I have saved more than one customers bacon when shit got a little intense.  The point of this is  reading is GREAT, having gear is awesome, but being with someone that is knowledgable is priceless.   

Apr 29 2011 11:00AM
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shocker611
Posts: 2599 - Karma: 423
uh no, have you ever been to utah? If there is even a chance that a slide will touch a ski resort they will bomb it. For example, they bomb wolverine even though it is on none of the ski resorts properties. It still slides from time to time, but it is still controlled.
Apr 29 2011 11:07AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
I think that also has something to do with roads, and keeping them open. Many states conduct avalanche control along the highways. The simple fact that an area has been controlled does not mean it won't slide. This year I have seen some really big slides in places that are bombed regularly. You still need to excersise judgement and wisdom, alot of which is gained only from experience.
Remember there is a difference between knowledge and wisdom; knowledge rarely keeps one alive.

Experience is what you get right after you need it. -an SF soldier. I have never gained experience out of a book, the Internet, or classroom instruction.
Apr 29 2011 11:52AM
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californiagrown
Posts: 9794 - Karma: 2,014
your reading comprehension sucks! i literally said the exact same thing as you: "Ski areas will only bomb areas that will slide onto their property".

the DOT's are responsible for bombing areas that will slide onto roads. And again, after a 10+ inch dump, how many slide paths do you see at your mountain in the morning? a bunch most likely.
Apr 29 2011 12:12PM
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