24h after Hiroshima got nuked

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Crazy Fool

In WWII you were drafted...meaning you were forced to fight in a war that was started by someone else.

If you saw fred phelps from the westboro baptist church about to shoot your best friend in the head, and the only way to stop it would be to kill everyone associated with that specific church, would you do it? i sure as fuck would. When someone gets sucker punched, and then forced to fight in a war, not of conquering, but of protection, they should suffer as few causalties as possible, even at the expense of the enemy.

oh and btw that same civilian population was ready, and about to be turned into the army. On top of this, hiroshima was a major industrial center for japan, and was one of the main reasons why the japanese war machine was still some what viable.

Only after the 2nd bomb was dropped at Nagasaki, was Japan even willing to discuss surrender. So yeah, if it was a choice between my family, or best friend being forced to fight over in japan,or a hundred thoasand of the japanese dieing frm the bomb, id choose the bomb every time.

american boys were civilians, until the japanese started the war with the US, and turned them into soldiers who were then killed by the thousands. So ya, i do believe the japanese killed many, many US civilians.

Apr 2 2011 12:22AM

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EasyEast

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Apr 2 2011 12:27AM

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andreweckels

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Apr 2 2011 12:32AM

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Play Ball

"if i had the decision to save 10 of my countrymen by killing 100 of the enemies civilians who were 100% supporting the enemy, i would do it in a heartbeat. "

That's so fucked man. Seriously, that's fucked up. Killing 10 civilians to save 1 of your own fighting the war. That goes against so much shit legal and moral.

"If you fuck me me, im gonna fuck you up so bad that you will never be able to fuck with me again."

Hop off the roids for a few days.

"If the bomb saved even 1 american life, then i believe that it was worth it. The japanese started the war, and they can suffer the consequences."

You're on another level right there. If you actually mean that you're so fucked in the head it's not even funny. Actually it's tragic. Hopefully at the very least you were exaggerating that. We start wars all the time, and we're def not always right. Lets say we start this war with finland(too be random and not really affiliated with other wars)So we're in the wrong at the beginning, but we're determined to win this war. We're trying to take over their country and they're like"no fuck you, this is our land". We won't stop so finally they drop a nuclear bomb on nyc and la, killing thousands of civilians. Many of those civilians supported our effort to take over finland. You agree with that strategy because we were in the wrong and refused to stop? Plus we started the war and the civilians were supporting the cause of "the enemy"

Apr 2 2011 12:38AM

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Nadia.

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I realize that there was a draft in effect but you were speaking in general terms of killing 100 civillians to save a life of your own countryman.

Also, the americans can be partly to blame for ignoring imminent signs that the japanese were going to attack. They chose to ignore warnings from advisors.

Pearl harbour attacked killed 2,336 MILITARY and 68 civillians.

Hiroshima killed 150,000 civillians.

Nagasaki killed 75,000.

How the hell can you justify that? 225,000 vs 2400?

"Only after the 2nd bomb was dropped at Nagasaki, was Japan even willing to discuss surrender."

Wrong.

"On top of this, hiroshima was a major industrial center for japan, and was one of the main reasons why the japanese war machine was still some what viable. "

Wrong again, japan was running short of food, oil, and resources to continue the war, their entire navy was crippled and they had suffered extremely heavy losses. They didn't drop the bomb on an industrial area, they dropped it smack in the middle of town.

"Only after the 2nd bomb was dropped at Nagasaki, was Japan even willing to discuss surrender."

Wrong, japan surrendered 3 weeks later. They were unable to come to an official surrender despite wanting to earlier because so much of their forces were in complete disarray and chaos. The emperor was looking for a less shameful way to end it. The US had spent $2Billion dollars on the manhattan project and wasn't about to let it all go to waste without putting the bombs to use.

Read the above quotes in my previous postings, I'm going to reiterate it again in words you might understand. US MILITARY AND GOVERNMENT KNEW JAPAN WAS LOOKING FOR AN EXCUSE TO SURRENDER. MULTIPLE HIGH RANKING OFFICIALS DISAGREED WITH THE USE OF THE BOMB AS IT BEING TOO EXTREME AND UNNECESSARY.

I dont even know what to say, you just epitomize the stereotype for the uniformed arrogant american who thinks their shit don't stink and they can walk all over anyone they want without a consequence.

Apr 2 2011 12:51AM

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Anathema

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im surprised at the amount of people that dont know bombs detonate in the air. everyone seems to think that bombs hit the ground and explode. that would be an incredibly inefficient way of destroying a target. by detonating in the air you get the massive force of the blast rushing down as it strikes the ground and propagates outward, causing that ridiculous shockwave. that was something i learned at such a young age and have always known but it's kinda funny to hear people baffled when they learn that bombs explode in the air some 2000 feet over their target

Apr 2 2011 12:59AM

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siversex

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theads

Apr 2 2011 1:04AM

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Crazy Fool

and you sound like the classic holier than thou canadian.

When someone starts a war with my country for no other reason than they want to expand their territory,proceeds to kill hundreds of thousands of my countrymen, and then expects us to go easy on them, all i can say is FUCK YOU.

In my mind, when you start an unjustified war with another country, and that country is forced to draft civilians to fight, and protect their countries sovereignty, you are killing civilians.

We had given the japanese ample time to come to the table and talk peace, but they wouldnt. they had previously shown at nearly every battle that they were a formidable enemy, even when they had little to no supplies. We dropped the bomb on hiroshima as a symbol to the emperor and teh rest of the japanese command of what we could do to their country, and that their only option was surrender. We reached out to the japanese, and they still refused, so we nuked nagasaki.

Again i ask you, what should the US have done to stop the war and make sure that Emperial Japan could never commit the atrocities it had committed ever agian?

Apr 2 2011 1:33AM

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skisteep

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Apr 2 2011 1:50AM

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Nadia.

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I know my country has problems, if you watch the news you'd know the whole debacle with our current elections. We interned the Japanese during WW2 and turned back boatloads of Jewish who had no choice but return to Europe where they were killed in concentration camps. But we weren't discussing Canada. We were discussing use of Atomic weapons, specifically Hiroshima/Nagasaki.

"all I can say is FUCK YOU"

Well, keep at it, you fit the stereotype to a T. With that attitude I'm sure you make a lot of friends from other countries. There's a reason why theres a general dislike of americans world wide. There are plenty of decent human beings in your country, but you give them a bad name as an ignorant fool.

"In my mind, when you start an unjustified war with another country, and that country is forced to draft civilians to fight, and protect their countries sovereignty, you are killing civilians."

....Isn't that EXACTLY what you're doing in IRAQ right now? So technically they're justified to nuke the states now? Because I'm pretty sure the US has killed hundreds of thousands of civilians as collateral damage. WAY MORE than Pearl Harbour. By your reasoning they are completely justified to do that.

"We had given the japanese ample time to come to the table and talk peace, but they wouldnt. they had previously shown at nearly every battle that they were a formidable enemy, even when they had little to no supplies. We dropped the bomb on hiroshima as a symbol to the emperor and teh rest of the japanese command of what we could do to their country, and that their only option was surrender. We reached out to the japanese, and they still refused, so we nuked nagasaki. "

Wrong again... the military more or less had seized power and the emperor and military were two separate entities. At this point in time the military was so devestated that the chain of command was not clear. Yet again I'll reiterate READ THE ABOVE QUOTES FROM PREVIOUS POST RE: US OFFICIALS THAT KNEW THE JAPANESE WANTED TO SURRENDER YET STILL DROPPED THE BOMB DUE TO THE $2 BILLION 1940 DOLLARS THEY HAD INVESTED IN THE MANHATTAN PROJECT.

"Emperial Japan could never commit the atrocities it had committed ever agian?"

Uhhh, pretty sure that the military had pretty much seized power and the emperor of 'Imperial' japan was just a figurehead and didn't have control of his country.

Don't even get me started on atrocities. Nanjing was an atrocity, but so is killing 225,000 civilians by lighting them on fire or instantly vaporizing them, or sentencing them to a life of sterility or cancer. That's the pot calling the kettle black. But then again you can't see out of your pile of biased hypocritical bullshit you've buried yourself in so I don't imagine you'd be able to see things objectively or from a third party perspective that wasn't directly involved.

Apr 2 2011 2:08AM

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Crazy Fool

first off, you started the name calling with the countries.

second, youre kinda(big stretch) right about the unjustified war with iraq, except for the key part. Iraq had committed countless atrocities, and deserved to have their govt taken out (no more than many other countries, but they also had oil so we actually care about them). The forces fighting the US military in Iraq are fighting for a skewed view of religon, not for a country. They were not forced to fight, they chose to fight for their god.

But Iraq and WWII Japan are so completely different in both time and circumstance that they are nearly incomparable.

The japanese did want to surrender, but they wanted to keep the same military/political establishment in place, which was completely unacceptable. that was what was holding up the peace talks.

just because i have a different view of military politics, doesnt mean i am ignorant. in fact, your inability to tolerate a viewpoint that is very different from yours, shows your ignorance. I recognize the validity of many of your points, but i simply do not agree with your reasoning. You simply refuse to see any validity in my points at all.

I tend to subscribe to the "speak softly but carry a big stick" school of thought when it comes to military politics. There were for sure other smaller, peripheral reasons for dropping the bomb where they did, how they did etc. but the main single reason that it was dropped was to save american lives, and i believe that that should, at all times, be the number one concern of the military.

Apr 2 2011 2:42AM

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Malcolm

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Apr 2 2011 2:44AM

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Insane

While you bring up many good points you are wrong about the part of the Japanese military being devastated.

Nearing the months following up to the nuking of Hiroshima and Nagasaki the Japanese had folded the remnants of their navy which albeit had lost almost their entire surface fleet (except for a few surface destroyers and light cruisers) still maintained 10's of thousands of "marine" like combat units. These units were combat trained and folded into the military after it became clear the Japanese Imperial Navy was virtually wiped out. I may also add that the Japanese started mass producing hundreds of suicide mini submarines at this time as well.

The Japanese military also pulled all their remaining soldiers back to the mainland after the bloody defeat on Okinawa. The mainland of Japan had well over 250000 Japanese soldiers ready to fight to the last man digging in on the mainland.

The Japanese airforce was totally destroyed except for a few hundred inferior zeros at this point in the war. The Japanese basically folded any operating plane in Japan into the air force at this time. This meant biplanes, crop dusters, passenger planes you name it. All to be part of the "divine wind".

With all the above said and done the Japanese had a military force exceeding 300000 dug in and ready to fight to the last man. Did I also mention most civilians were armed with guns, swords, grenades and almost any make shift weapon to fight to the end? The death toll on both sides would have been astronomical. The USA predicted the loss of 250000 American lives and nearly 750000 Japanese.

As for Californiagrown, get your head out of your ass. Wars are fought and people die. It is a fact. What the Japanese did the USA has been doing for decades now against supposed weaker countries and getting their ass kicked like the Japanese did. It's war.

Apr 2 2011 2:44AM

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Insane

Thats what the Japanese fought for

Apr 2 2011 2:45AM

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Post Whore

The Japanese military took the bushido code of old and twisted it.

In the ORIGINAL bushido way to die defending your honor was considered honorable but if there was only death or surrender as a way out the samurai would usually surrender.

Tojo fucked it all up by saying if you DON'T die in battle you were dishonoring your family.

Apr 2 2011 2:56AM

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Crazy Fool

in her example, whe was comparing the Iraqi isurgents to the americans, and the americans to the japanese.

your right, her example is atrocious.

Apr 2 2011 2:57AM

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Insane

And for their emperor who they believed was a living sun god

Apr 2 2011 2:59AM

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skier_boy26

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Crazy Fool

Ok, I get the whole life is a life morality involved, but you come across as fucking stupid.

Now I'll be the first to say that a nuke wouldn't be worth it, in WWII, if it saved 1 American life. That is just plain hyperbole. However, if it would save thousands upon thousands of American lives, and probably thousands more Japanese... well, then yea, totally worth it.

I think you are pretty oblivious (as pointed out) that the United States was not going to go to war easily (just look at WWI - took 2½ years for the United States to get involved) and it would have been a bitch to end had it not been for those two nukes. The Japanese bombed the United States, attempting to take out the naval fleet, but in that the total human casualties at Pearl Harbor weren't that big as far as wars go, but it is the greater implication down the road that mattered.

And yes, it was a draft war. If you had a swinging dick, were over 18, and weren't retarded, you had to register...

Now as for your asinine comment...

Now switch scenarios, imagine you see religious leaders overseas burning bibles calling it white power propaganda. What would the US do? Probably send a cruz missile their way. Hypocrisy.

That happens - foreign religious leaders burning or destroying "western" shit - all the time, it just doesn't get play over here. Bibles, flags, effigies, hostages... burned, destroyed, tarnished, but so what? We don't attack on that shit. Point to one instance, please. Don't be so fucking stupid. Here - you make all Canadians sound retarded. Wait, actually, that isn't true. You make yourself sound retarded.

Apr 2 2011 3:00AM

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Peter.

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threads for when i have time

Apr 2 2011 3:02AM

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Post Whore

Yeah. "Flags of Our Fathers" the book at one point actually goes into pretty good detail about how Bushido got corrupted for WWII.

Apr 2 2011 3:02AM

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Crazy Fool

The US hasnt committed war crimes on the scale and magnitude of those of emperial japan. And ya, war is hell, and people die, especially when they refuse to surrender. I just think it is shitty, when a country does little to provoke another country, and then is provoked into a world war. the country that does the provoking needs to be made to never have the ability to wage war on a large scale ever again.

Apr 2 2011 3:03AM

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Insane

While i will agree with you on that note in WWII, it us a little hypocritical to think in those terms today since the west is responsible for almost all the provoking

Apr 2 2011 3:07AM

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Crazy Fool

i disagree, we just view ourselves as international police force because we are at the top of the food chain. given, we pick and choose the causes that most benefit our country, but most of what we do is to help the people of a country.

vietnam being the significant exception, but even then we were preventing communism from spreading which we viewed as evil.

Apr 2 2011 3:17AM

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Post Whore

No... Vietnam isn't the only exception.

-Korea
-Vietnam
-Somalia
-Bosnia
-Afghanistan
-Iraq
-Soon to be Libya

What I hate as an American is if we DON'T get involved with something like Darfur people bitch. We get involved in something almost just like it in Libya they bitch we are doing too much.

The world needs to make up their fucking mind. And honestly, considering the last group we tried to help in Africa dragged our dead servicemen through the streets like animals I say fuck them, let them deal with it.

Apr 2 2011 3:26AM

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Insane

What you perceive(the USA) is entirely different then what is actually happening. A clash of ideologies does not necessarily help the people out as seen in Vietnam, Grenada etc.

Iraq was a noble cause but we have been more detrimental than helpful. The country is now a breeding ground for insurgents and whose to say the Iraqi regime wouldn't topple with recent events.

The title of world police will change hands in the future as it did in the past.

Apr 2 2011 3:26AM

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Crazy Fool

korea- i see as an extension of WWII

vietnam- already mentioned

Somalia-helpf stop the war crimes during the civil war, and act as a peacekeeping force

Bosnia- help stop war crimes, and genocides

Afghanistan- they WERE backing terrorists, not to mention had regime with no regard for human rights

Irag- took out Saddam, one of the worst rulers in recent memory. war crimes, and human rights violations up the wazzu

We dont do the provoking, we just police the areas where our interests are.

Apr 2 2011 3:46AM

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Korea... has NOTHING to do with WWII...

Somalia... we didn't do shit. We ended up getting 2 Black Hawks shot down, 3 more severely fucked up and like 14 Delta and Ranger's operators killed. And for what? To have our pilots dragged through the streets.

Bosnia... yeah we stopped them, only to have Yugoslavia get broke up into 3 different countries with a bunch of revenge killings.

Apr 2 2011 3:51AM

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cobra_commander

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"How would you like it if my country decided to invade all of south east Asia then rape, torture enslave and kill the civilian population."

Fuck that, The Empire of Nipon killed way more people in the rape of Nanking alone then we did with those two bombs. They had it coming.

Apr 2 2011 4:36AM

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cobra_commander

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Alright, I don't give a fuck. Fuck the Empire of Japan. Zero sympathies coming from this corner.

******WARNING********
VERY GRAPHIC IMAGES
******WARNING********

Go Nipon Go.

those guys are about to be buried alive.

Those are Chinese civilians. They did the same shit in every country they invaded. The Japanese made Hitler look like a nice guy.

Apr 2 2011 4:56AM

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Play Ball

"just because i have a different view of military politics, doesnt mean i am ignorant. in fact, your inability to tolerate a viewpoint that is very different from yours, shows your ignorance. I recognize the validity of many of your points, but i simply do not agree with your reasoning. You simply refuse to see any validity in my points at all. "

You were talking about how you'd rather kill thousands and thousands of civilians, anytime, if it meant saving one of our men.

"but the main single reason that it was dropped was to save american lives, and i believe that that should, at all times, be the number one concern of the military."

Quite the paradox. Kill a quarter million civilians to save lives? That's fucking brilliant. IT amazes me how something can be drilled into your head enough that you can repeat it and think it actually sounds the least bit logical.

Apr 2 2011 5:25AM

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Play Ball

Yes, the japanese cause world war 2. The bulk of the war was us vs. japan, and it all started with the bombing of pearl harbor.

I'm just glad that earthquake just hit them. That was god paying them back for pearl harbor.

Apr 2 2011 5:33AM

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exile_ch

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Ridiculous

wow dude... You're fucked up.

Apr 2 2011 5:36AM

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Insane

lol wut?

Apr 2 2011 1:29PM

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feihlination

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Crazy Fool

i know that, everyone knows that, but what about a scenario in which the nazis (still the evil ones) had one?

try to read a little more between the lines and dont take everything straight up

Apr 2 2011 2:48PM

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vailsux.com

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Insane

The Japanese are tough motherfuckers.

Apr 2 2011 3:03PM

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Insane

Apr 2 2011 5:15PM

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Crazy Fool

actually, nazis were one of the big reasons that we were able to build the bomb.

After the fall of, and during the downfall of the third reich,the US and the soviets competed to collect as many nazi scientists as possible because the nazis had far more advanced technology than the allies did. They even had a working prototype for a nuclear reactor.

had the noazis had 1 more year at full economic strength, they almost assuredly would have had a nuclear weapon ready for launch, and they had ALL of the world top rocket scientists.

One of the worst things to come from the bomb was the fact that many nazi scientists who were also war criminals were given amnesty for helping either the soviets or the US with their weapons including the Atomic bomb.

when you are an official in charge of waging war against an enemy, minimizing enemy casualties is your last priority. The entire japanese population was going to end up being armed combatants had combat reached the mainland. Dropping the bomb on japan saved the most american lives of any war-ending strategy. Because it saved the most american lives, i could never fault a leader for it.

Apr 2 2011 10:56PM

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GetPitted

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Apr 2 2011 10:59PM

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NickSki.

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Are you fucking stupid? Probably another arrogant American fuck.

Apr 2 2011 11:27PM

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Davin

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japans fault not his calm down

Apr 2 2011 11:32PM

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Crazy Fool

hey you ignorant canadian fuck, they didnt have the bomb. so how was that statement arrogant, you arrogant canadian fuck?

Apr 2 2011 11:37PM

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.frenchy

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Holy shit calm down.

Apr 2 2011 11:39PM

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B4NE1

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threasdds

Apr 2 2011 11:41PM

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BrewskiJr

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Apr 3 2011 12:01AM

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