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Official Canadian Federal Election Thread - May, 2011

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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
So, after the government unveiled the 2011 federal budget today (the most nothing budget in at least a decade), it seems certain, if not official, that there will be an election as a result of the vote on friday. It'll take place on May 2 or May 9. Although I am guessing no one will have much to say yet, things always heat up as the campaign goes along so I thought I would make a thread.

Will there be a conservative majority? Who will you vote for (or who would you vote for if you could)? Will the current issues surrounding the budget form a jumping-off platform for election issues? I'm thinking not - there is simply nothing really in there to campaign on or against, aside from the elimination of the federal deficit by 2015. From where I sit, the issues at stake will develop over the next couple of weeks and we'll be talking about completely different things than now. Aside from contempt of Parliament which is a good election buzzword.
Mar 22 2011 6:24PM
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kootenayklaus
Posts: 3914 - Karma: 2,179
Liberal. but not Ignatiaff. (I don't know how to spell his name :3)
Apr 5 2011 5:45PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142

I am still not convinced. Is there some increased risk of them falling out of the sky? I am assuming we are not creating any significant jobs / economic benefit in Canada from designing or building these 65 airplanes and I see no particular reason why we would need an upgrade to fancy new jetfighters over, say, a whole bunch of transmission lines, or tax arbitrage opportunities for such investment as is deemed a policy thumbs-up, or incentives for people to become school teachers, or hospital infrastructure, or public transportation funding, or affordable housing development, or crime prevention initiatives, or a thousand other things.

Assuming there is some extremely compelling reason for buying new airplanes what with to shoot people with, I like the idea of getting twice as many Eurofighters or even better, paying 1/2 the cost for the same number of Eurofighters.

Apr 5 2011 5:51PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142

... With the caveat that I don't know the difference between an F35, a Eurofighter and the Avro Arrow.

Apr 5 2011 5:52PM
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Proletariat.
Posts: 1797 - Karma: 45
I think it is more the fear of not being able to buy the parts to maintain them and to keep up with other nations. I mean the Vodoo fighter was great for Canada in the 60's but it wouldn't fit todays fighter needs. Same applies to the Hornet. The Eurofighter is better than the F-35 in every single way except for the stealth technology, they fly farther, faster, and have twin engines as opposed to single.

I know its wikipedia but here is a link to the Eurofighter, it gives a pretty good over view.

Apr 5 2011 6:12PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142

I just don't see why it is that we're worried about keeping up with other nations in this department - which nations are we expecting to piss off? I also don't understand why stealth technology is even useful at this point, it's not like we're fighting the USSR, but I reiterate I know nothing about any of this stuff. It just seems like a stupid place to dump cash when we're on a 4 year deficit-elimination plan.

Apr 5 2011 6:17PM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,750
what are your opinions on the Green party being excluded from the Leader's debate?

personally I think there should be room for one more at the table, considering May does represent the opinions of 1/10th of Canada. (the same as the Bloc).


Apr 5 2011 6:23PM
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Proletariat.
Posts: 1797 - Karma: 45
I think you summed up the view of many Canadians who are pissed off over this.

The pitch for these things is over Arctic sovereignty and how Canada apparently holds a vast reserve of oil under the Arctic shelf. It is basically to protect Canada's economic interests in the arctic considering we share it with some pretty powerful neighbors. Again, take it for what you will.

In my personal view I would have liked to see the deal go like this. Purchase 20 of these F-35's considering we put $200 million towards their development and replace the rest of our aging force with 100 Eurofighters. It would work out to nearly half the price of this total deal. That way we get the best of both worlds.


The problem with the Canadian forces/ government is instead of replacing our equipment gradually over a period of time we wait for it to become all out dated at the same time and replace everything at once. That basically means you have years of little defense spending followed by periods of enormous purchases all at once. Doesn't make sense to me, we should replacing things gradually as opposed to wait 3 decades and pour all this money in at once to replace the whole lot. This goes for all facets of our armed forces. Hell the navy has some destroyers that are almost 40 years old that are waiting to be replaced.
Apr 5 2011 6:24PM
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Proletariat.
Posts: 1797 - Karma: 45
Until they get a member elected to the house of commons she should remain out. If we do it for her we might as well do it for the Communist Party and so forth
Apr 5 2011 6:25PM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,750
but the point being that the commie party and animal alliance and rhino party and all that shit got practically no votes.

if there was proportional representation, Greens would have like 30 seats, while those other parties still would have nothing.
Apr 5 2011 6:28PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
The counterpoint is, how exactly will they ever get anyone elected if the system views them as unimportant / an afterthought. Don't know what green party support is like right now and would never, ever vote for them but IIRC it's about ten thousand times more significant than the communist party.
Apr 5 2011 6:29PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Best pragmatic argument for first past the post ever made
Apr 5 2011 6:30PM
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Proletariat.
Posts: 1797 - Karma: 45
Fair enough but at this point i would suggest that they are quite well known especially with this debate in the news as of recent. Free publicity for them. All joking aside, at least the Communist Party have elected a member to parliament.
Apr 5 2011 6:32PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
i remember the last debate May was in, she was talking over everyone and interrupting people. many 'green' people commended her on making the other politicians answer her questions and not beat around the bush, but others saw it as arrogance and being obnoxious. i am of the later.

Apr 5 2011 6:33PM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,750
wow, first time on NS I've had to look up the meaning of a word. well done.

you really don't like the Greens do you?
Apr 5 2011 6:34PM
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Proletariat.
Posts: 1797 - Karma: 45
Proportional representation wouldn't work in Canada, we would never have majorities and you would get nonsense parties who would get elected with no influence at all.
Apr 5 2011 6:34PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
I think their policies are terrible and if they had any real representation in parliament it would be a bad thing for the country. I nonetheless think people should be entitled to hear their political viewpoint in a debate and hopefully disagree with it. That said, the dude up there is right, if you're just going to be a wang and try to shout everyone down and cause a scene in order to draw attention to yourself (because no one would pay much attention otherwise), then you aren't contributing to the discourse. So maybe it's her own damn fault.
Apr 5 2011 6:38PM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,750
one, like 70 years ago.
and technically the Greens did too, although not for very long.

but it still doesn't change the fact that more people voted for the Green party in the last election than have ever voted for the Communist party in their 90 year existence
Apr 5 2011 6:38PM
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Proletariat.
Posts: 1797 - Karma: 45
False they didn't get elected as a Green they crossed the floor
Apr 5 2011 6:50PM
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Trollolo
Posts: 793 - Karma: 16

The new projection today has Conservatives at 154 seats. Exactly half. I wonder what would happen if that went down..? Can they pass anything they want or do they need another vote? I'm loving Nanos polling 400 every day. That way we can see the trends. I think the other parties are really starting to regret calling this election without any sort of key issue.

But anyway, I'll probably be unenthusiastically voting Conservative again. Uhg. Not that it matters, my MP is Flahety and should lock up 50% of the vote comfortably. I'm a firearm owner, and the other parties really just don't get it or speak to me. That and I keep hearing Ignatieff say the tax cuts "cost" or "costed" him money. As if it was your money to begin with :/ .... classic liberal, thinking all the money is theirs and they generously permit us to keep some of it. Uhgggg, we'll see how it plays out. If anyones interested in how their riding is polling lemme know.

Apr 5 2011 7:46PM
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Proletariat.
Posts: 1797 - Karma: 45
Can you check the sea to sky region?
Apr 5 2011 7:49PM
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Trollolo
Posts: 793 - Karma: 16
btw, if anyone is interested in making this election interesting shoot me a pm
Apr 5 2011 7:50PM
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Proletariat.
Posts: 1797 - Karma: 45
in BC
Apr 5 2011 7:50PM
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Blurst
Posts: 13577 - Karma: 10,169
I agree they truly do not take anything that really matters into consideration. I do believe that because of their representation they should be allowed in the debate. They represented more of the vote than the the bloc in the last election. I still do not feel like the bloc should be a national party though.
Apr 5 2011 7:52PM
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Trollolo
Posts: 793 - Karma: 16
Need the name of the actual federal district. Province makes it a bit quicker for me to check as well.
Apr 5 2011 7:53PM
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Trollolo
Posts: 793 - Karma: 16
nvm, just found it. Con 10.1% lead over libs (42.4 - 32.3)
Apr 5 2011 8:00PM
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Trollolo
Posts: 793 - Karma: 16
And greens are at 13% lmao what a waste.
Apr 5 2011 8:11PM
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B4NE1
Posts: 876 - Karma: 16
The thing about buying the F-35 vs the Euro Fighter is that in the future many more countries will be using them than ones using the eurofighter and don't you want your buddy to be using the same shit you're using? Interchangeable parts, weapons, maintenance and training. VS using multiple different aircraft where you won't be able to use parts from allies etc. We need an upgrade from the F-18 cause we are one of the only countries left using them, they are old.
Apr 5 2011 8:17PM
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Proletariat.
Posts: 1797 - Karma: 45
The entire European Union uses Eurofighter Typhoons...
Apr 5 2011 8:20PM
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mowdapow
Posts: 223 - Karma: 48
Still unsure who I'm going to vote for. I'm not a fan of any of the parties, the only thing I like about the conservatives is they have the best chance of keeping our economy working, and the NDP because they're against the enbridge pipeline. NDP's gonna win in my region for sure anyways, so it's not a big deal, maybe I'll vote green to keep my enviromentalist side happy. Although the thought of the green or NDP actually having power is scary.
Apr 5 2011 8:24PM
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maxwell666
Posts: 554 - Karma: 20
obviously f350 is the best because 350>35... trucks beat jets...

and i sorta dislike you, because you want to vote for ndp. bc ndp are farkin retarded. the last time they were in they decided to waste all that money on those shitty fast cat ferries, that were then deemed to tippy and dangerous so they sold the boats they spent like 28m on for like 2-5m or some stupid shit like that. and they say they care about the everyday family, then why did they throw all of our money away?

for all you americans, our ndp are the communists of canada. (not seriously, more like super socialists)
Apr 5 2011 9:24PM
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Trollolo
Posts: 793 - Karma: 16

Interesting article in the Globe today about whats going to happen if its another conservative minority. All opposition parties have said they will vote down the budget AGAIN. Which definately means their will be some sort of "coalition" if you want to use the word. I'm honestly sick of this shit. Elections still matter to most people in Canada. You can't just seize power cause you lost. I'm getting every single person I know in swing ridings to vote. Its about time we actually had a stable government, give them a chance, and vote them out a few years later if they fuck up.

Apr 6 2011 11:42AM
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Trollolo
Posts: 793 - Karma: 16
Seat projection today has Conservatives at 154, exactly half, and up 11 seats from where they are now. One more...
Apr 6 2011 11:43AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Uh that's the point - if they can form a coalition government, they didn't "lose". It's not X party or Y party it's a majority of votes in parliament. This quote basically expresses a complete lack of understanding for the basics of parliamentary democracy. You vote for an MP, not a ruling party. If you don't like the way one particular coalition would run the country, that's one thing. If you really don't like the idea of a coalition government as a basic concept, you're living in the wrong damned country and need to emigrate to the USA as quickly as possible.
Apr 6 2011 11:46AM
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mittfree
Posts: 329 - Karma: 15
Provincial politics =/ federal politics. Just because they share the same name does not mean that the parties share policies. The BC Liberal party is closer to the federal Conservative party than the Liberals on the political spectrum.
Apr 6 2011 12:41PM
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Trollolo
Posts: 793 - Karma: 16
We won't have to worry about it. Canadians are sick of elections over nothing. When people see its going to another conservative minority by a few seats there's going to be a lot of liberals staying home or voting conservative. I think the CPC will get about 158 ish seats.
Apr 6 2011 1:54PM
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Proletariat.
Posts: 1797 - Karma: 45
This, the elections ever year are getting old real fast
Apr 6 2011 1:57PM
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Trollolo
Posts: 793 - Karma: 16
It's not really about the amount of elections, its more about their never being any election issues to run on. The liberals came out with the same platform they ran on in 08, same with the conservatives. There's no major difference on a key issue between the two major parties. Oh well. Judging by this polling the hug-a-thug liberals are already regretting it.
Apr 6 2011 1:59PM
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Proletariat.
Posts: 1797 - Karma: 45
Im more pissed about the waste of tax payers money constantly being put to elections rather than more important stuff
Apr 6 2011 2:01PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
they really are a bunch of children fighting over the coolest toy in the box. they really don't give a fuck for our best interests, but only claim they do to pander for votes. every day i see a new promise to some special interest group for an exorbitant amount of money.
Apr 6 2011 4:51PM
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Trollolo
Posts: 793 - Karma: 16
Today has projection at a conservative majority, by one seat. Should be interesting to see if this helps the conservatives or not. Hard to say if independent/undecided voters will lean con because of this, if it will rally the liberal base and they'll go out and vote in big numbers, or both.
Apr 7 2011 5:30PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
surveys and seat projections are amusing to look at, but the two main ekos/nanos pollsters have different partisan identities. who really knows. i just wait till its all said and done.
Apr 7 2011 6:12PM
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Trollolo
Posts: 793 - Karma: 16
What side is EKOS and NANOS  on? Nanos is teamed up with CTV and globe and mail, so I'm assuming liberal?
Apr 7 2011 6:33PM
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dbchili
Posts: 2555 - Karma: 1,657
that comment pretty much sums up this election. Lots of spending for politicians egos, which will inevitably yield the same political representation we have now
Apr 7 2011 6:33PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
nanos is conservative bias. so you know what ekos is.
Apr 7 2011 7:10PM
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Trollolo
Posts: 793 - Karma: 16
oh yeaaa Frank Graves is the guy who runs EKOS and he's an outspoken liberal. Which kinda pisses me off that he works at CBC
Apr 7 2011 7:32PM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,750
of course you'd be Liberal if you work for the CBC. If the conservatives had their way they'd shut it down.
Apr 7 2011 7:39PM
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Trollolo
Posts: 793 - Karma: 16
Good lol. Why does the government need to be involved in TV programing. The private sector does a much better job at it. Have you seen CBC's line up? Or listened to the radio station? LOL. This isn't 1920 anymore where we need the government to tell us war news through the family radio.
Apr 7 2011 8:16PM
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geteducated
Posts: 6410 - Karma: 86
yes, for all i care cbc could become like pbs with telethons and has been canadian celebrities filling air with meaningless talk about how important the cbc is to canadiana.

Apr 7 2011 8:21PM
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Obi-Wan-Jenobi
Posts: 951 - Karma: 119
I m voting Conservative and am hoping for a majority finally. We need a majority so we can stop having these bloody elections every year!
Apr 7 2011 8:44PM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,750
have YOU listened to CBC radio? ever? It's by far the best produced, most informative, most intelligent station on the airwaves in at least Canada. Just because they don't play Kesha doesn't make it a bad station.

government should absolutely be involved in programming, both on TV and radio. Having a national station that one can rely on for accurate and mostly unbiased news with intelligent personalities is key.  Privatizing media completely is all around a very bad idea.
Apr 7 2011 8:54PM
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