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Huge turning radius on on3p's

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Ducky.
Posts: 5811 - Karma: 1,420
So, I was checking out the on3p website, and I noticed that most of there skis had a huge turning radius. I ski on the JJ's, which have a radius of 14. Compare that to the Billy Goat, which is a similar shape/size to the JJ, and the radius is 27. Do on3p's turn slow, or will I be able to turn them as easily as a JJ?

Thanks!
Jan 18 2011 12:28AM
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Chilly.
Posts: 930 - Karma: 24
I have Billy Goats and at first it seemed like they took big long turns but then I got kind of used to it. In fact I barely notice anymore and I can turn them as sharp as I want as long as I put enough weight into the turn. But hey I haven't had them all that long but they are a blast.
Jan 18 2011 12:42AM
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Casey
Posts: 7849 - Karma: 24,323

I like a ski without a lot of sidecut. At first you may need to get used to the slow initiation of a carve, but skis made for big ass turns are a blast. I can't speak specifically for ON3P, but I can say that its definitely not a drawback to have a big turning radius.

Jan 18 2011 12:56AM
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Blake.P
Posts: 9894 - Karma: 3,585
I dont notice it with my caylors. They are super responsive and fun, not hard to turn
Jan 18 2011 2:04AM
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jca
Posts: 4171 - Karma: 6,311
larger turning radius = less hooking in pow and variable snow. and way more stable for longer, faster turns but can still do short turns if you know how to turn properly.
Jan 18 2011 2:26AM
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Mt_Baker_Man
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 105
no....

The thing that cuts down hooking best, is shape subtly at the tip and tail... Low profile tip rise (often included with rocker) and early taper (like a JJ, Billy Goat, EP, etc) will help to prevent hooking.

And "stability" has more to do with preference, length and flex.

For example. My 185 EP pro has 16m sidecut, but it also has rocker, early taper, and low profile tips. It almost never hooks. My 172 Lizzies dont hook because they are short. My 178 JJs (non rocker model) are stiff, and have a HUGE turn radius. they also have giant tips and tails... They are probably the most hooky skis I own. The tails are like anchors in the pow.
Jan 18 2011 3:48AM
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-ShredTheGnar-
Posts: 2038 - Karma: 111
What year JJs do you have, because i have like the 05/06 and 06/07 last year of non rockered JJ and the thing is light and not stiff at all.
Jan 18 2011 6:58AM
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Mt_Baker_Man
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 105
I have the 2008 JJ, it has no rocker. This model.

http://www.evo.com/outlet/skis/armada-jp-vs-julien-2008.aspx
Jan 18 2011 7:39AM
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-ShredTheGnar-
Posts: 2038 - Karma: 111
yer i have the year before, i thought non rockered JJ was epic. hate the new one.
Jan 18 2011 8:20AM
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flexpattern
Posts: 1090 - Karma: 45
I have this years jjs and they are the best ski I have ever owned!

They aren't hooky at all, and like it has been said before the turn radius is only 14m; pretty dope ski! So seems like they totally ironed those issues from the older pairs out then!


I really wish I could have a demo on the on3ps, but there are none in europe and with shipping them/tax/import levys it's a bitch to get hold of... so can't really compare the jjs to the on3ps ..... But the jjs are sick!
Jan 18 2011 8:30AM
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Ghini
Posts: 2261 - Karma: 3,002
Most ski's that enjoy camber and rocker have a turn radius between 22-30m, JJ's are just different.. Personaly I like radius around 25m, shorter sucks, a bit longer is ok but 30m and more is to much for my like..
Jan 18 2011 9:34AM
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Session
Posts: 5379 - Karma: 22,209
You're talking about pow ski's though. The radius just refers to the the sidecut the ski has, in 3-D snow there are a lot more factors than the sidecut of the ski.
Jan 18 2011 10:17AM
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OMGHEDIDNT
Posts: 706 - Karma: 12
14 is very small for a pow stick
Jan 18 2011 10:34AM
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Bonzalo
Posts: 2593 - Karma: 1,812
Hahaha, yeah thats the problem, the jj´s have a really small turn radius, thats like a slalom ski turn radius. For most of the powder skis i would say 20+ is the normal, on3p is doing his work right.
Jan 18 2011 11:52AM
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Ghini
Posts: 2261 - Karma: 3,002

Well I was talking about pow ski's yeah, because the OP is talking about pow ski's too..

With: ''in 3-D snow there are a lot more factors than the sidecut of the ski.'' You mean that there are more factors that influences the turning of a ski? Offcourse there are a lot more, especially in the powder (real 3-D, groomers are more 2-D)

Jan 18 2011 12:29PM
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Session
Posts: 5379 - Karma: 22,209
My bad. I thought we were discussing fat rockered pow ski's.



















Jan 18 2011 12:40PM
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flexpattern
Posts: 1090 - Karma: 45
Yeah but thats how they carve on hard piste, they ski short because of the rocker; then as soon as you take them to the pow the rocker comes into play and they act like a longer big mountain ski... it works for me!
Jan 18 2011 12:41PM
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wrenedad
Posts: 34 - Karma: 91
The S7's are a pow ski with a turn radius of 14.7m. They are not hooky and perform in pow. The S7's have similar dimensions to the JJ's and some of the ON3P skis. The questions might be:
1. How much is the turn radius function of design and/or
2. Is the turn radius calculated consistently?

Hopefully someone can help?? Thanks.
Jan 18 2011 1:25PM
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powderhound100
Posts: 2510 - Karma: 144
I never found any of the ON3P lineup (from what I have skied) to turn slow.

I am on my third season for my proto 191 wrens and they amazingly nimble. I love ripping through really tight trees in Tahoe.

I skied this year's BG in pretty much every condition this summer in Argentina and I found them to turn pretty quickly, but were still able to charge. I would not want them to be any turnier though (is that a word? haha)
Jan 18 2011 4:31PM
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Lemuel
Posts: 14490 - Karma: 10,638
My one lifes (189) have a 26 turning radius, I definitely noticed it when skiing them on the groomers. I set them on edge and took off like a jet in huge turns, so much fun, but it takes some time to get used to.
Jan 18 2011 6:19PM
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Casey
Posts: 7849 - Karma: 24,323

 1. How much is the turn radius function of design ;

I remember watching a line video where pollard was explaining hooking in pow in reference to why they developed early taper. I remember dynastar back in the day made a big thing of their intermediate skis being really easy to initiate carves because they basically had "late taper" Obviously they didn't call it that, but essentially the ski got wider through the tip up past the contact point to make turning easier for beginners.

That was kind of a tangent, I would say that turn radius is a major part of the design of a ski. All other features aside, turn radius is maybe the determining factor in what kind of turns the ski wants to make naturally. Can you make a large radius turn with a slalom ski? Yes. Could you make it through a slalom course with 210 cm straight skis? Sure. But obvioiusly the goal is that you match the ski that you choose as best you can with the type of skier that you are and the type of terrain you ride most. But, maybe you ski a certain way because of the skis you are on currently. Does it mean that you would dislike something different? no.

2. Is the turn radius calculated consistently?

I would think so. But put 5 company's 180 cm skis next to each other and I guess you could assume the same differences in "actual" turn radius. Especially since some skis have elliptical sidecut, so who knows how you calculate that.

Jan 18 2011 9:57PM
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shibby
Posts: 7088 - Karma: -19
Because no one has answered your question: no. The turning radius on one is 27 and the other is 14, obvious answer is obvious. In general you can make a short turning ski go long but the opposite is not necessarily true.
Jan 18 2011 10:29PM
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DHogg
Posts: 3462 - Karma: 237
Skis with lots of sidecut are not as stable at speed/going straight as they like to turn. A ski with a long radius can still do short turns if you know how to bend the ski properly as well as being solid at speed.

Some people prefer lots of sidecut, and some with little. Neither is better, its about your skiing style.
Jan 18 2011 10:53PM
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shibby
Posts: 7088 - Karma: -19
To my knowledge this isn't true. Turning radius is measured when the ski is being bent at about a 45 degree angle. So it's (near) impossible to make a 20m ski turn at 15m.
Jan 18 2011 11:02PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
do i need special glasses for that?
Jan 18 2011 11:32PM
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Mt_Baker_Man
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 105
No, you fail. You can make a zero meter radius turn with any ski, regardless of sidecut dimensions (rotary movement). You can also go straight and true with any ski, regardless of sidecut. Stability is mostly affected by the skier. A big stiff straight ski might feel stable, but it reacts about as fast as pudding compared to a slalom ski. IT BOILS DOWN TO PREFERENCE, THAT IS ALL.

/end thread.
Jan 18 2011 11:34PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Billy Goats have two turn radii, we take the average of the two because its just easier on everyone, or so we thought. The Wren is a 30m turn, the BG on average a 27m, but ask anyone who's tested both of these and they'll tell you theres a night and day difference. Numbers are there for your nerdiness, and we try to make it helpful for our customers, but I cant calculate how the ski feels compared to other skis out there and give it a comparative number. Its an average, and they turn, trust me.
Jan 19 2011 4:26AM
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shibby
Posts: 7088 - Karma: -19
FYI to all, the ON3P website says the BG's have a radius of 20.4 at 176 (not 27 or whatever) which seems pretty dead on for that type of ski. I absolutely don't doubt that the BG's can turn, and you're right it is just a number.

What seems stranger to me is that the JJ's come in at 14m. Maybe with skis having taper tips and rocker among other things now it's become very difficult to measure these types of specs accurately, and there may be less consistency across different companies.

Moral of the story: whenever possible try to demo the skis before you buy.

I still stand by my second statement though. There's no way to knock 10+ meters off of a turning radius like some above have suggested. Unless I'm completely missing something here...
Jan 19 2011 8:07PM
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250r
Posts: 2276 - Karma: 1,013
you dont need to make perfect racer rail road tracks all the time. Im still getting used to my new park skis on groomers with a 25m radius, i may not be able to carve little slalom turns everywhere but i can still skid quick turns around. I cant really think of when it would matter just skiing groomers, if im going to be making that short radius of turns im probably doing it to slow down, so i would be at least slightly skidding my turns.
Jan 24 2013 2:26AM
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250r
Posts: 2276 - Karma: 1,013
/\haha fuck its late, spacin out there lookin at an old thread...wouldnt have replied if i saw the date
Jan 24 2013 2:28AM
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Huck_Norris
Posts: 11487 - Karma: 18,627

Actually not really. 

By skiing forward and bending the ski along it's length, you shorten the radius.  The more forward pressure, the smaller turns you can crank out without breaking edge grip. 

Case in point- I had a pair of 183 BROs a while back that had I believe a 37m radius, but by getting and staying forward onthem and turning by driving the tips and keeping that energy in the ski I could bang out little tiny <10m SL turns on them without just throwing them sideways.

The turning radius number just basically tells you how big of mountains and terrain they're built to take on, it's by no means a concrete number you cannot change nor is it a limiting factor to the turns you can make on them.  That is wholly dependent on your skiing.   

Jan 24 2013 10:09AM
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no_steeze
Posts: 23992 - Karma: 4,273
yeah i would be hard pressed to agree with the fact that jj's have the same turning radius as slalom skis. i skied jj's and billy goats extensively and the jj's definitely hold a tighter edge on groomers but in no way do they have a true 14m radius. the difference is noticeable though, since billy goats are much more directional and less hooky, especially my first year ones with more of a pin tail
Jan 24 2013 11:06AM
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.nasty
Posts: 10581 - Karma: 11,157
lol the old JJ is a piece of shit......
Jan 24 2013 11:29AM
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CDdesign
Posts: 1015 - Karma: 92
for those that dont want to read hehehehe i made a picture:
Click for larger image
Jan 24 2013 11:53AM
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