Member of the Month

KilaTsunami
October, 2024

Online

Welcome to the Newschoolers forums! You may read the forums as a guest, however you must be a registered member to post. Register to become a member today!

Paging Engineers or People Familiar With Aluminum & HDPE

profile picture
glacier_freeze
Posts: 87 - Karma: 28
StartFragment

If you arewilling to act as a mentor for a few simple questions regarding theconstruction of a Remotely Operated Vehicle for my HS Systems Engineering IIclass, please send a PM or reply via a PM (for any simple suggestions orquestions regarding the project, you can reply via email. but i need the email-ishformat for my teachers.

Background:

constructinga Remotely Operated Vehicle (ROV)

assigned toconstruct the vehicle structure

the vehiclestructure is mainly being constructed from aluminum and HDPE

Questions:

What weldingtechnique is required for 5052-H32 aluminum sheet (36 inches x 36 inches, 0.05inches thickness? TIG welding or MIG welding

How can Iwater/pressure seal the edges of the aluminum? epoxy

How can Icut the aluminum sheet effectively? band saw

How can Ibend the aluminum sheet to form edges?

How can Iattach the aluminum body to the High Density Polyethlyene (HDPE) skids?fasteners

What type offasteners (like screws) can be used to attach aluminum to HDPE? Note: the HDPEis ideally 1 inch in thickness, but I can order 1.25 inch thick HDPE?

I haveattached a picture of the proposed ROV design.

Click for larger image

morereliable background. (this is the ROV competition website that the schoolcompetes in) http://www.materover.org/main/(its a remotely operated underwater vehicle.)

http://www.seabotix.com/products/vlbv950.htm

i am sort ofbasing my design off of this company's idea of using skids, because we need touse hydrophones and thermometers to take measurements

basicallythe class consists of one project - the capstone design project, where wecombine our knowledge and experience from 'technology and problem solving'class from 9th grade, 'AutoCAD' from 10th grade, and 'Sys. Engineering I' from11th grade. however, we are required to use a mentor, so i ask this communityfor more help beyond my mentor, because i know there are some engineeringmajors in the group. any suggestions help. really just trying to gather as muchadvice, because i need to fill out mentor contacts for tuesday.

@ 'TheReverend Floater' thanks.

@ 'DoWork'much appreciated advice. i plan on bending it by creating a net initially. so iwill go ahead with bending the aluminum with a brake. sorry but i am not handyat all. my dad does not touch anything, so I am slowly picking up on stuff in school.

http://www.mathsisfun.com/cube.html

unfortunately,i am not at school anymore (where the drawings are). 3rd point - air tight(ballast for buoyancy); the ROV will be at a max of 4 meters underwater(chlorinated indoor pool). and no i don't have to open the aluminum body uponce its welded. thanks for the knowledge about the welds holding up and theadvice on the rivets. it should not matter, but i truthfully don't know. i wasthinking screws but i didn't know what screws would work best with hdpe (i'mafraid of splintering). the HDPE will be made from 1 inch thick HDPE. if i gothe screw route, any suggestions on screws that can drill into 1 inch thickHDPE. i would love to make it all aluminum but i need the skids to provide astable platform.

@'pointemstraight' thanks. i will test the aluminum with both approaches atfirst. and are you referring to snips or actually metal shears. i know we havesnips because i had to help a classmate cut slotted aluminum with snips, but iwill have to ask the teacher about metal shears. and i'll look into the brake.

lastly, myblog for additional information that includes lead up background, the problem,some more drawings (but basically the same view). maybe the description of thealternate solutions could help.

http://se2aengrov.blogspot.com/

also the competition website might help.

EndFragment
Jan 13 2011 8:06PM
0 0
profile picture
glacier_freeze
Posts: 87 - Karma: 28
no help? sorry for the formatting, but i copied and pasted from a word document.
Jan 13 2011 8:56PM
0 0
profile picture
Liam.Butler
Posts: 709 - Karma: 17
What weldingtechnique is required for 5052-H32 aluminum sheet (36 inches x 36 inches, 0.05inches thickness? TIG weld it, or use mag with a wirespool whip
How can Iwater/pressure seal the edges of the aluminum? if its all aluminum TIG it.
How can Icut the aluminum sheet effectively? sheer, nippers or plasma cut it.
How can Ibend the aluminum sheet to form edges? break press
Jan 13 2011 9:08PM
0 0
profile picture
glacier_freeze
Posts: 87 - Karma: 28
thank 'Liam.Butler'
Jan 13 2011 9:17PM
0 0
profile picture
Inbred_Redneck
Posts: 2776 - Karma: 28
TIG everything, and use cutting shears or a torch. I'd use shears though personally.
Jan 13 2011 9:20PM
0 0
profile picture
Liam.Butler
Posts: 709 - Karma: 17
Don't use oxy fuel on aluminum, use a plasma cutter or bad things will happen. He can also use a MAG whip with wire spool located on the gun, the process is often easier and faster to do for noobs. But for a nice sound weld use TIG. I'm sorry I could answer the rest of you're questions.
Jan 13 2011 10:21PM
0 0
profile picture
Inbred_Redneck
Posts: 2776 - Karma: 28
I meant a plasma torch, sorry for not clarifying.



Aluminum is just a bitch to work with in general.
Jan 13 2011 10:23PM
0 0
profile picture
Liam.Butler
Posts: 709 - Karma: 17
Sorry to post again but I just had to say, that course you're taking sounds so cool. I wish I had stuff like that when I was in high school. Instead I had bullshit non fun stuff, got so bored in the shop we filled a garbage bag full of Acetylene and Oxygen then lit it on fire. It was a bad idea, don't do it.
Jan 13 2011 10:25PM
0 0
profile picture
Liam.Butler
Posts: 709 - Karma: 17
You're right though, sheers are the best option.
Jan 13 2011 10:27PM
0 0
profile picture
glacier_freeze
Posts: 87 - Karma: 28
@ 'Liam.Butler' its a great class, but no instruction. granted we are supposed to use past knowledge from 9th, 10th, 11th grade, in which we took technology & problem solving and design, AutoCAD, and Sys Engineering I, respectively. what separates this course from say Sys Engineering I is that the Capstone Design Project, which is the centerpiece of the course, is the whole course essentially. Therefore, the ROV is the whole class. Also, the whole project is a group effort (each team is composed of 3 members and each member is tasked with a certain component) i so happen to be assigned to vehicle structure. I guess this class is sort of interesting, but the workload is obviously a lot. But heck, this is our senior project. And I did not want to do an Oceanography project (you either have to take Sys Engineerin II or Oceanography senior year and each has a year long project, except that the Oceanography project data collection occurs during the summer [I was busy during the summer - National Scout Jamboree]) at least the course provides a good base for future engineering courses - Materials Science & Engineering.
Jan 14 2011 12:06AM
0 0
profile picture
KrazyistKarl
Posts: 1725 - Karma: 599
what are the dimensions of this shell? you say it wont be opened once welded, so im assuming completely sealed holding air, and an incredible amount of buoyancy in. 4m is actually deeper then you think and it will need a lot of counter weights. Have you ever tried to sink even a volley ball or similar sized ball in the "deep end of a pool" as a kid? its harder then you think. why are you choosing such a hard medium? why not base a design around easy to get parts like PVC piping and fittings. available at any hardware store, all you need is a cheap hand saw to cut it, and PVC glue to make everything water tight. im very interested in this. PM if you need someone to bounce ideas off of
Jan 14 2011 11:18PM
0 0
profile picture
KrazyistKarl
Posts: 1725 - Karma: 599
oh i just saw your blog or progress page, never knew how far along with it disregard my suggestions. good luck
Jan 14 2011 11:23PM
0 0
profile picture
glacier_freeze
Posts: 87 - Karma: 28
update:

Click for larger image

ROV Summary

As the ROV is being employed for scientific research, the small platform affords a well-rounded system that provides a combination of performance, maneuverability, and stability. As displayed by the renderings, the platform is achieved by separating the vehicle structure system into two elemental components – the body and the skid.

Click for larger image

Click for larger image

Click for larger image

The aluminum body is a trapezoidal prism that is ten inches wide and five inches high. The two base lengths are fifteen inches and twelve inches. Accordingly, the body’s volume is 675 cubic inches or 0.390 cubic feet that delivers a neutrally buoyant system, which is the body’s fundamental role, as it functions as a ballast tank. The skids, which resemble helicopter skids, extend three inches past the body and are equipped to the body in order to add stability. Additionally, sensors and the manipulator system are placed on the ROV by fastening the instruments to the high density polyethylene (HDPE) skids. Furthermore, an aluminum mounting rack, which is attached to the HDPE skids through rivets, supports the four thruster design. Moreover, the stable platform that stems from the skid enables the ROV to acquire sensor data. Altogether, conscientious attention to design and layout provide a balanced system that should prove effective in the competition.

ROV Specifications
Body
Length: B1 = 15 inches B2 = 12 inches
Width: 10 inches
Height: 5 inches
Skids
Length: 18 inches
Width: 1 inch
Height: 5 inches

at this point, my raw materials are:
Aluminum (Alloy 5052) .050" Thick, 36" X 48"
and
Polyethylene (HDPE) Sheet 1" Thick, 12" X 24"

however, i need verification with supply lists and equipment lists.

currently, my supply lists include:

-sealant for sealing the edges of the aluminum geometric net after welding. the aluminum body needs to be water tight.
recommendations for sealants:
looking at underwater silicone sealant or polyurethane adhesive/sealant for underwater

-mesh abrasive hand pads for deburring the aluminum sheet and HDPE sheet after cutting (Nylon Mesh Abrasive Hand Pad 3M)

is a file needed for deburring the aluminum or HDPE

tool and equipment list:

-snips for cutting the aluminum

-jigsaw for cutting the HDPE

-press brake for bending the aluminum

-TIG welder for welding the aluminum
can i get a breakdown of the necessary supplies or parts to go along with
the TIG welder. currently my list includes tungsten electrode, welding cable,
torch, ground cable, gas regulator and hose, foot-pedal control, power cord,
shielding gas, welding rod.

what diameter electrode do i need to use for 0.05" thick aluminum? what diameter welding rod ...?

-drill for preparing rivets holes

what drill bit is necessary for drilling into 1" thick HDPE? can splintering occur?

-caulk gun for sealing the aluminum body

parts list:

-shank rivet for attaching the aluminum mounting bracket onto the HDPE

-blind rivet for attaching the HDPE skids to the aluminum body

what rivet tool would i use?

is that all? should i reconsider some items? suggestions?
Jan 27 2011 12:04AM
0 0
profile picture
KrazyistKarl
Posts: 1725 - Karma: 599
id go to a welding shop for most of this info. do you have to make this yourself? you dont just pick up a tig with absolutely no experience in welding and expect to be able to weld this together in a liquid tight manor. and even if you are welding this on your own, no shop is going to want someone using there equipment, and buying it is out of the question.

If you are tig welding it, you wont need any other sealant, it will be water tight

as far as drilling into the HDPE, any standard bit will work, it wont splinter.
how to rivet it, any hand rivet gun will work, go to your local hardware store and ask for one. i suggest not getting the cheapest one, but you dont need the most expensive one either. cheap ones are a real pain in the ass cause the rivet pins stick in the gun 4 out of 5 times


how are you planning on having this descend and ascend and move around?
Jan 27 2011 12:27AM
0 0
profile picture
glacier_freeze
Posts: 87 - Karma: 28
there needs to be a final product. however, i do not need to physically weld the aluminum. either the teacher or an instructor within the district will weld it. other options include hiring somebody. i would like to avoid hiring people, but i know that i will have to look for somebody besides me to weld it.

ok. i know we have some cheap rivet guns. so ill just use that.
Jan 27 2011 12:51AM
0 0
All times are Eastern (-4)