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Ripped Schizos out of my JJs :(

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greyninja
Posts: 2399 - Karma: 656
So I was skiing at my home mountain the other day in MA, and we had a little bit of fresh snow on the sides of the trails. I decided I'd hit a little wind lip and do a 180, and after catching about 3 feet of air and landing in about 6" of pow, i fell over because my ski popped off

but what really happened was my schizos ripped out of my JJs!

now i've had these since the beginning of last winter, and because i currently live on the east i havent used them to their full potential; no cliffs, big jumps, or other shenanigans. mostly just groomers, small/medium park jumps, and whatever east coast pow i could get to

now, i'm baffled that this happened, so i emailed the GM of Armada hoping he could help me. he gave me a card to their "VIP" website two summers ago which is how i bought them originally, but he hasnt gotten back to me in the last 4 days. i'm assuming he's on vacation, but do you think this is the kind of thing they'd warranty? i dont know of any shops that carry armada in the waterville, NH area, otherwise i'd go to them. and help or discussions you have will hopefully ease my pain. thanks

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the holes are torn out a little, so i'm afraid to remount them cuz they may snap n kill me

this sucks
Jan 3 2011 8:42AM
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greyninja
Posts: 2399 - Karma: 656
....just the heel piece on one of them busted out. forgot to mention that
Jan 3 2011 8:44AM
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pigglywiggly
Posts: 4482 - Karma: 305
yeah, armada will definitely warranty that no problem. they warrantied my beat to shit rockered ar6s that had rail damage so they will definitely warranty those
Jan 3 2011 8:49AM
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Lemuel
Posts: 14502 - Karma: 10,728
I'm guessing they have only been mounted once. They don't need to be warrentied, you can remount.
Jan 3 2011 9:49AM
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greyninja
Posts: 2399 - Karma: 656
you dont think the cracked holes will reduce the strength of the ski?
Jan 3 2011 10:19AM
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Mr_pretzel
Posts: 4616 - Karma: 1,290
Markers and armadas dont like each other. And you wont be warranted for a binding pullout.
Jan 3 2011 10:30AM
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greyninja
Posts: 2399 - Karma: 656
even if a shop mounted them? not that i'll be able to find the slip from that day... fml
Jan 3 2011 12:11PM
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yellav
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 1,217
it seems like marker heel pieces suck i know multiple people who have had their heel piece rip out for no apparent reason at all, on something really small.
Jan 3 2011 12:13PM
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Mt_Baker_Man
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 105
The shop probably drilled incorrectly. I had one heel screw rip out on my EPs last season because the shop didn't drill right, the screws were in at an angle. What you should do, is take your skis to the shop where you got them mounted and ask to have INSERTS put in. Like quiver killer style. Thy should be willing to do it for free, since they mounted them once already, and it was probably their fault.

Armada has no responsibility for binding issues. This is purely a shop problem, not a ski problem.

I would highly recommend getting inserts put in anyway, so you can swap bindings between skis. Always a good plan.

www.quiverkiller.com
Jan 3 2011 1:57PM
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Mt_Baker_Man
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 105
Oh shit, I just saw the cracks around the mount holes, that changes things. Did you shop just screw the binding screws in without a predrill? I have never seen that.
Jan 3 2011 2:00PM
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Simmo
Posts: 512 - Karma: 28
It happens, JJ's have a real soft core, part of the reason they are so light.
When I bought mine my shop said if i charged hard i'd probably rip em out soon enough and to bring them back and they'll helicoil them for me free of charge.


Jan 3 2011 2:32PM
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greyninja
Posts: 2399 - Karma: 656
one of the shops at Mount Snow mounted them for me while i worked there.

they definitely pre-drilled, and everything looked and worked great, up until the defining moment where they broke. the video below is one i put together for mount snow, showing part of the mounting process

since theyre cracked, i feel like if i try to mount them again theyll eventually snap if/when i land back seat


Jan 3 2011 4:26PM
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rooftop85
Posts: 2023 - Karma: 91
This is a sad situation. Pat is a great guy. With the ski cracking at the mount holes you definitely compromised the integrity of the ski. I personally would not remount them. The shop looks like they did everything right. If they had used too big of a drill bit the screws would have ripped out without cracking the ski but the cracks show that the screws tried to hold on to the ski. Where did you have the schzo bindings positioned? +3, 0, or -3?
Jan 3 2011 5:32PM
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Mt_Baker_Man
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 105
Yeah, I think this might actually warrant, a warranty... get it? ha. Anyway, just talk to Armada, send them pics, and hopefully it will work out.
Jan 3 2011 11:48PM
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Pipe_Munky
Posts: 10888 - Karma: 2,184
that has nothing to do with binding pullout.

how the binding holds into a ski is all about how strong the mounting area of the ski is. probably not going to be a warranty, just plug the holes and remount.
Jan 4 2011 9:16AM
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MEGAZORD
Posts: 4531 - Karma: -7
Just like the old jp vs julien. Binding ripouts galore.

Jan 4 2011 10:10AM
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Kangbang
Posts: 14211 - Karma: 423
dude, that sucks so bad. ive seen that happen with schizos at least 5 times in the past 2 years.
Jan 4 2011 10:11AM
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MEGAZORD
Posts: 4531 - Karma: -7
I will never trust Armada. Super light wood and tons of glass, a good core does not make.
Jan 4 2011 10:14AM
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*Dos*Planker*
Posts: 2983 - Karma: 168
the same thing happened to my AR6'S mounted with jesters, they even cracked like this. If you can get these warrantied you should let me know so i can do the same.
Jan 4 2011 10:50AM
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onlyskisline
Posts: 76 - Karma: 10
I would suggest warrantee. I did the same with Alpha 1's and jesters. I did not warantee and now water has gotten into the ripped out holes and now my skis has rotted out and my perfectly good skis are fucked. and they have ripped out a few times now so they are done. And i heely coiled them the second time.
id suggest heeley coiling jj's and alpha's from now on too!
Jan 4 2011 2:11PM
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ESAND
Posts: 1607 - Karma: 744
Yeah like a shitty ski. This was happening all the time with k2s back in the particle board days. Its unacceptable and most certainly cause for a warranty.
Jan 4 2011 2:54PM
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shreddenator
Posts: 329 - Karma: 28

Binding tearout rarely will get you a pair of new boards. However, that doesn' t mean you shouldn't try. It was a good idea to hit up Armada as politely as possible, who knows? Don't give up you might get something if they want to keep your loyalty. 

You should go see the shop where you had them mounted, even without the receipt. Explain the situation maybe they will remount  the heel a couple cm back and you can adjust forward to compensate. That will buy you a few days at the least. They might even give you a discount for some new skis. Cheer up man, there is still hope.

Jan 4 2011 3:14PM
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Backyard.Skier
Posts: 5397 - Karma: 1,497
just go to a local shop get them to put some plugs in and binding glue in there and re-mount. good as new
Jan 4 2011 3:22PM
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Elephant_Snot
Posts: 157 - Karma: 5
its just the skis

i ripped P14's out then replaced them with jesters cos they have different screw mounts and ripped them out as well.

loved the skis but i have new ones now, the core is so soft
Jan 4 2011 9:53PM
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Mt_Baker_Man
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 105
O_o

I just put some Mojo 18s on a pair with old mount holes... am I doomed?
Jan 5 2011 12:53AM
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MEGAZORD
Posts: 4531 - Karma: -7
Maybe. I had 3 ripouts on the same pair. Then one of them just snapped at the heel.
Jan 5 2011 9:09AM
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MEGAZORD
Posts: 4531 - Karma: -7
This was a known problem for that ski.
Jan 5 2011 9:09AM
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sports*creel
Posts: 400 - Karma: 389
Our shop has sold 36 pairs of JJ's this season, mounted them with bindings from Salomon, Look, Marker, and various AT bindings. In addition, we sold more than 2 dozen pair last year. I have had one set of older Look Pivot bindings (with the narrow screw pattern in the heel) pull out on a last years ski. They were glued, wood plugged, re-drilled, and have not pulled out since. Armada makes a great ski, problem is probably improper drilling/mounting.
Jan 5 2011 9:51AM
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MEGAZORD
Posts: 4531 - Karma: -7
Who uses woodplugs anymore?

Just helicoil it.
Jan 5 2011 11:22AM
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sports*creel
Posts: 400 - Karma: 389

quality option.

Jan 5 2011 12:37PM
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MEGAZORD
Posts: 4531 - Karma: -7
I wasn't disagreeing with you, the issue 90% of the time is indeed poor mounting. Wood plugs just would not be the solution i would have used.
Jan 5 2011 12:53PM
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greyninja
Posts: 2399 - Karma: 656
-3, so that they could be positioned at center and -6cm back

i emailed the GM of Armada (i had his business card so why not go straight to upper management? haha), he told me to send some shots of the ski itself and the specific damage and he'd see what he could do for me. i'm staying positive and hopeful that i'll get a new pair!
Jan 6 2011 12:24PM
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rooftop85
Posts: 2023 - Karma: 91
Well I'm rooting for you getting new skies also!
Jan 6 2011 4:37PM
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Gnome_in_Gnarnia
Posts: 163 - Karma: 13
I'd say its a shop issue, not something to take to armada for warranty. Take them back to where you got them mounted and see what they can do. Probably helicoils with a ton of epoxy.
Jan 7 2011 1:58PM
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Mt_Baker_Man
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 105
You cant helicoil a cracked core.
Jan 7 2011 3:34PM
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leahey
Posts: 2548 - Karma: 32
Hope you get the warranty, I can't think of anything else.
Jan 7 2011 3:41PM
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greyninja
Posts: 2399 - Karma: 656
UPDATE:

And I quote

"Ahh – Marker Jester’s – there’s your culprit! The entire industry had a problem with those pulling out

A few issues with a straight warranty on this ski

1. Generally we don’t warranty pull-outs

2. Generally we don’t warranty proform skis – unless it is a really crazy defect

3. We don’t really have a ski to get to you right now

My suggestion would be to heli-coil and remount – or better yet, replace the heel piece, hopefully with a different manufacturer (I Like Salomon or Tyrolia), or to move it an remount it to a different spot"


:(



Jan 20 2011 5:35PM
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MEGAZORD
Posts: 4531 - Karma: -7
Everything in that email is pretty normal.
Jan 20 2011 8:39PM
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aquaholic
Posts: 70 - Karma: 10
I ripped one heel piece off 2nd day on my jjs while in japan (where they were bought and mounted with dynastar bindings). took them back to be helicoiled

then Ive just got back to australia and realised the other heel has 2 stripped bolts... definitely a jj problem. nearest ski shop is over 3000km away... so im hoping to helicoil them myself... and suggestions or tips with this
Mar 6 2011 10:31PM
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Ghini
Posts: 2262 - Karma: 3,004

I'm sorry, but I just watched this video and I cant really understand what they did with the mold?? It sits really high above the ski...that cant be any good.. The grey things with red bottoms that clamp around the ski,does that come from marker or own made so you can fit wide ski's under the same mold?!? You can see the mold can move when he pushes it down.. I'm sorry but that cant be normal.. My shop mounted a pair of Bibby's for me and their mold sit on top of the topsheet..

Oh and one other thing..their is still wood dust (sorry dont know the term for that in english) on the ski's when they glue them, did they get it all out from the holes??

Im sorry but it just really seems sketchy..

Anyone else is with me?

Mar 7 2011 6:16AM
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I_liketobutter
Posts: 2664 - Karma: 997
stop buying shitty plastic bindings.

buy fks, buy fks, buy fks. they'll last you 5+ years, idk why people waste their time w/ markers unless they get them for free and have 4 pairs sitting in their house ready for action
Mar 7 2011 10:45AM
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DirtyMick
Posts: 1496 - Karma: 21
So just this weekend I ripped my barons out of my JJs. Sooooo bummed. They're older JJs though, the red ones with Metroid brains. Pulled the heel plate right out of the ski with the screws and all. Thinking I might try to tap them with some of those inserts called quiver killers. How did your situation end up?
Mar 7 2011 1:27PM
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greyninja
Posts: 2399 - Karma: 656
still sitting on broken skis. i havent been able to make it back to the shop that originally mounted them.i want to see if theyll fix em for free
Mar 11 2011 8:13AM
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JakobS
Posts: 324 - Karma: 64
Hey fuckface, stop try to play a smartass!
The mounting is 100% correct, with the right template, and since the video is cut, they don't show you when they empty the holes!
Mar 11 2011 12:02PM
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Ghini
Posts: 2262 - Karma: 3,004

Jakob relax man, no need to start hating and calling me a fuckface.. I was just asking, just read..

I just have never seen a mold / template that sits so high above a ski.. Do you think thats normal / standard?? I know it isnt.. 

I know the holes were emptied, I talked to the OP and he told me everything..so just relax..

Mar 11 2011 12:50PM
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Chompo.
Posts: 4952 - Karma: 88
hmmmm.... probably a shop issue, but i have had NO problems with my jj sth16 setup...
Mar 11 2011 4:15PM
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LEATH
Posts: 1315 - Karma: 488
I would be weary of the schizo. I work in a ski shop and I saw a pair of 2010 11 Hellbents and the heel piece on the left ski completely cracked and broke off.
Mar 11 2011 7:53PM
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huge-go
Posts: 1451 - Karma: 33
With the luck these kids are having, that'll probably just make the pullout problem worse with the small mounting pattern. Other than that I have nothing to contribute to this thread. I have a pair of jjs mounted with fks 18's, and skied probably about 80 hard days on them this season and I've had no problems yet (knock on wood).
Mar 11 2011 9:36PM
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monkatizer
Posts: 4704 - Karma: 1,518
fill em with epoxy, then mount the binding slightly different and because there ajustable, just ajust it to ur former position. but make sure no water can get in anywhere, that may have been the reason they ripped out!
Mar 12 2011 11:33AM
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onlyskisline
Posts: 76 - Karma: 10
i ripped out a heel piece on my alpha 1's (first year) they told me that they might not warrantee it so i didnt send them in, then water got into the ripped out holes and now my bases have rotted out. \and i actually broke my ski in half because of it. Do you think that they would warrantee my skis? cuz they are a couple seasons old??
Mar 12 2011 4:41PM
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greyninja
Posts: 2399 - Karma: 656
only if it's a factory defect
Mar 13 2011 7:33AM
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