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Buckles EXPLODING!

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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
AND IMPLODING!!

Story time kiddies.

Today, whilst I was putting on my boots, I went to go do up the top buckle. I buckle one notch at a time, (I always find it easier). Anyways, like every other day, I went to go put the top buckle at notch 3. Buckle them down and hear a "clank". I look down and see that it blew apart. Just the metal piece from some sort of fatigue...I'm mad, seeing as it's only day 7 in these brand new boots. I brush it off, saying "I'll just warranty it, glad it's only the one boot and that I have this massive power strap" (or something like that). Anyways, do up the strap, it's all comfortable. Then go to do the other boot, and the top buckle sure enough blows apart too.

Pics of said destruction
Click for larger image
Click for larger image


Now, seeing as these are big mountain boots, this shouldn't happen. I called Salomon, but sure enough, it's holidays. So no one's home.

I've heard of people breaking buckles, but like this? Really?
And I also don't want no arguments on how they're Quest 12's. I like them a lot (minus this). Haven't had any problems with the soles or anything.

I don't know what I'm getting at here, I just want to know if people have had this before? Did you just get new buckles? New shell?
I don't want to send the shell away.

For the time being, I'm skiing park, I wish I was at a big mountain doing what I love, but I can't afford that this year. I continued to ski today, regardless of the missing buckle. For my experience level in park (day 3 today), I am not worrying about it. I don't hit big jumps yet, and don't plan to until I fix this (and get park skis). For the time being, I plan on just working on rails, and duct taping them tight for when I do go ski big mountain.
Dec 31 2010 9:24PM
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Tablespoon
Posts: 923 - Karma: 14
This also happened to at least a couple of other dudes over on TGR.
Whoever did quality-control on the Quests needs to get fired immediately.
Dec 31 2010 9:27PM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
My Quests did the same thing yesterday. I have an old school Salomon Pro Model buckle on it now. I kept the Quest lever, but the ladder and buckle have been replaced. It might actually work better. Quest QC has been garbage though. And their stores don't have any fucking replacement parts in stock! If this had happened on a pow day I would have been fucking choked, I didn't miss a whole lot though and a shop was able to rivet a new buckle into place in an hour or so.

But ya, Quest buckles = garbage.
Dec 31 2010 9:33PM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
How did you replace the buckle and keep the lever? I know I my family has a couple old pairs of Salomon boots lying around. But I won't see them until the 11th.
Dec 31 2010 9:38PM
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wrenegade
Posts: 6631 - Karma: 41
Put the whole piece in a vice, got a soft cloth and put it in between some vice grips and screwed the buckle off. Took a while and it doesn't want to go easily, but it will screw off. Then reverse the process. Happy with the results so far. The buckle is MUCH shorter though. Used to crank them down to the 6th step on the ladder, now use them on the 2nd. (The ladder might be a different side too. I'll grab a photo when my camera decides to start working again.
Dec 31 2010 9:56PM
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Mt_Baker_Man
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 105
Salomon...


Well there's yur problem!
Dec 31 2010 10:00PM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
Thank you.

And to the post above me, nope.

My family has used Salomon boots and bindings for years, and have never had problems before. It's one of those companies that we trust.

Guess the whole Quest 12 is just a shit show.
Don't make things the way that they used to.
Dec 31 2010 10:12PM
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Mt_Baker_Man
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 105
It was more a reference to the quest pro/quest touring pad recall... I actually love the STH binding series more than most, simply because of the bomber toe adjustability. But... as far as boots go... recall... yeah.
Dec 31 2010 10:22PM
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joshua
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 1,280
SPK's are pretty awesome......
Dec 31 2010 10:43PM
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Mt_Baker_Man
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 105
unless you dont have a super super super fat sausage foot.
Dec 31 2010 11:45PM
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.Duncan.
Posts: 1375 - Karma: 459
not really...
Dec 31 2010 11:54PM
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joshua
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 1,280
I do not have fat feet and they are still awesome.
Dec 31 2010 11:55PM
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eatinpow
Posts: 434 - Karma: 16
Same thing happened to my ghost buckle, emailed them and had a new one in 2 days
Dec 31 2010 11:55PM
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.[sanhedrin].
Posts: 1652 - Karma: 932
The entire Quest program has been a total *________* from the beginning.  It makes me appreciate my Dalbello Virus' even more.
Jan 1 2011 2:29PM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
When you say "new one", is that the whole piece? buckle?
Jan 1 2011 2:33PM
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eatinpow
Posts: 434 - Karma: 16
yeah they sent me a whole new buckle. I needed to rivit it back on though.
Jan 1 2011 3:44PM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
Thanks man!!
No I have something very positive to look forward to.
Jan 1 2011 3:52PM
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Yung_Gnarley
Posts: 9092 - Karma: 3,022
Salomon boots are a joke.
Jan 4 2011 1:03PM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
Just talked to Salomon. They'll send me new buckles, just like that. Pretty easy stuff.

I'm still standing by Salomon for both boots and bindings.
Jan 4 2011 1:09PM
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Yung_Gnarley
Posts: 9092 - Karma: 3,022
Are you not worried about them just breaking again?
Jan 4 2011 1:46PM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
I worry about everything just breaking again. Everything deserves a second chance, if something happens again, I'll see what I can do.
Jan 4 2011 2:18PM
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CTD
Posts: 6300 - Karma: 348
ive fit boots for a long time, and I would NEVER buy salomon stuff. their boots are poorly molded, distort like crazy, are expensive, heavy (minus the SPK), and then you see stuff like this. I understand brand loyalty, but would you still buy a Ford or Chevy truck if the tranny blew up a week into owning it? Salomon doesnt care about you, and its pretty dumb to continue supporting a company when they put out sub par and overpiced products. that right there, (your broken buckle) is the result of the cheapest aluminum possible being spec'd, and in fact everything salomon makes is made out of the most costed down materials available. it makes sense from a business standpoint, but not from a rider one. do you really want to be out in the wild, with your life literally depending on the cheapest materials some french suits could find? thats why salomon skis fall apart, have cupped bases, tons of foam cores in their product line, etc. their shit is cheaply made. bottom line.

If i were you, id seriously reconsider basing your purchases simply on brand loyalty. thats stupid. sorry.
Jan 4 2011 2:37PM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
You have a very good point. I will re-evaluate my situation.
There is this issue with the Quest, and besides that other person that has posted in here, no other boot has had this happen.

I just got off the phone with my folks, they said I should look into replacing the boot, or just getting my money back.
So I have a question for you, I've tried on boots from Salomon, and was wondering if it was even worth it to switch out my Quest shell and replace it with something like the Ghost or Shogun. My friend used to ski for Salomon, they sent him a pair of SPKs, then the next year, sent him Shoguns, he liked the Shoguns more, so simply swapped liners. Would I have a problem if I did that? Switch my shell out?

I'm also waiting for the manager of the store where I bought the boots to be available. I know the whole store on a personal level, and they are very good to me. I'm going to see what I can do, maybe I'd be able to refund it and just order my second choice for a boot (being Full Tilt Konflict).
Jan 4 2011 2:49PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6656 - Karma: 10,862
I don't necessarily want to come to Salomon's defense, but everyone should know that all of the buckles for the ski boot industry come out of 3 factories in Italy. The buckles for Atomic, Salomon, Lange, Rossignol, Tecnica, Nordica, Dalbello, etc are all produced by the same 3 suppliers (design is led by each company, just production is handled by these Italian suppliers). This is probably just a bad batch and will be taken care of very quickly.
Jan 4 2011 3:02PM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
This is always my thinking.
The reason I back Salomon is because of experience, with nothing bad ever happening before to their products (besides skis, foam cores are the reason my family has never picked up a pair). Then this Quest boot comes along, with many problems. It's just like any other product that companies have released and have had problems with. (I hope I don't sound like I'm going back and forth between brand loyalty).

I just spoke to the Manager of the store I deal with.
What they are going to do is replace the top buckle with one from a Shogun boot. Then notify their regional rep and Salomon Warranty of the issues that have come up. Along with get extra buckles brought in, since they sold a few sets of the Quest 12.
Jan 4 2011 3:09PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6656 - Karma: 10,862
Salomon sold over 80,000 pairs of Quest boots this year alone... that is huge for a first year. They definitely have their issues, but they are also doing something right.
Jan 4 2011 3:24PM
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eatinpow
Posts: 434 - Karma: 16
Salomon has always treated me right also. And i am in love with the 2011 ghost's with the custom moldable shell. I highly recommend it to any one with a wider foot, who wants a stiffer boot. Good luck with your quest boots man, im sure the new buckles will be fine!
Jan 4 2011 3:37PM
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Piste.Off
Posts: 11586 - Karma: 1,860
I think the cons of the performance of the quest boot heavily outweigh the pros of Salomon's successful marketing of it.
Jan 4 2011 5:28PM
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eatinpow
Posts: 434 - Karma: 16
That is possible, they may have some kinks to work out...
Jan 4 2011 6:11PM
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MEGAZORD
Posts: 4531 - Karma: -7
I would say that this applies more to the SPK line than the quest boots.
Jan 4 2011 6:21PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6656 - Karma: 10,862
again, not trying to defend a competitor of mine, but the fact is you don't sell that many boots based on a marketing campaign.
Jan 4 2011 6:34PM
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Piste.Off
Posts: 11586 - Karma: 1,860
IMO Salomon over hyped the Quest 12 way too much because of their new technology and then released it too early with defects that a longer development could have fixed.
Jan 4 2011 6:42PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
unless the boots are called full tilt, in which case marketing is the only thing selling them. or SPKs.
Jan 4 2011 7:46PM
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shreddenator
Posts: 329 - Karma: 28

I admire you zest in defending your competitors, however how else do you explain selling as many units of a sub par product as salomon did without marketting? The Quest series is a certainly not a home run for consumers, but it did make Salomon a pile of cash...to assume marketing had nothing to do with it would be naive, don't you agree?

As far as Salomon goes, well they have been around a while so they must have made some good products along the way...it remains to be seen whether or not they have lost their passion for making ski products (because they certainly haven't lost any love for making money).

Better luck in the future Salomon. Do work!

Jan 4 2011 8:21PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
umm, the boot fits alot of people really fucking well, and having skied it a bunch, it skis really fucking well.

Also the walk mode on the boot is one of the best out there, the boot walks very well, and then really does lock down into an alpine boot. IT is a very nice feature to have for hiking to access lines where you want a real boot on.

The boot is one of the best designed boots in a long time. there are issues popping up with quality control (especially buckles, and on the earlier protos), as well as the whole fiasco last spring (the guy was admittedly TESTING a PROTOTYPE product). If you also consider how many Quest 12s have sold, you are bound to get some problems. And as already pointed out, the buckles are outsourced by all boot manufactures.

There are way more full tilt buckle/ratchet/plastic failures then failures on quests.

So ya, a few hiccups, but calling a boot that fits really fucking well, and skis really fucking well, with a nice walk feature, a sub par product is bad form.
Jan 4 2011 8:33PM
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shreddenator
Posts: 329 - Karma: 28

Just because you add the word fucking doesn' t make you right my friend.

It is obvious you have not tried out the Super Blaster. Or any of the competitions boots. Most boot manufacturers have realised the need for a good walking feature for sidecountry access for years.

No doubt the boot fits alot of feet well, Salomon has alot of experience with boot mould over the years. However, there are numerous companies with similar and better features (beyond Fulltilt) without the quality hiccups.

Don't take it personally. It is a boot.....relax.

Jan 4 2011 8:45PM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,686
I am actually blessed with the opportunity to ski almost all boots as they come out. I own a few pairs of boots, including a couple Lange boots, both of which are very good, neither of which is the super blaster. The super blaster does have a nice walk mode, but at best medium stiff, and fits bigger then your mom's gapping bat cave she calls a vagina. The flex on the supper blaster is also weird as fuck, and hits a lot of people too low.
Atomic has the exact same system as solomon, which they brought in this year, but again their '130' flex boot skis soft as shit.
Black Diamond's Factor has a nice walk mode as well, but if you don't remember those were breaking all over the place the first year. not to mention they ski like shit.

The quest does not tour like a tour specific boot, what it does do is ski like a real alpine boot though, something no touring boot has ever come close to doing.

I ski a fuck ton of boots. I am familiar with even more.



also of note, full-tilt should not be associated with the word better at all, unless you are saying it is better at breaking. the reason I used full tilt was because I replace more of their shit then other brands combined.


other note, I replace tons of buckles on boots, not just limited to salomon or full tilt. Lange, Atomic, Nordica, technica you name them I have had to replace them. Buckles break.
Jan 4 2011 11:41PM
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MEGAZORD
Posts: 4531 - Karma: -7
I was going to post basically this. Couldn't have said it better/
Jan 5 2011 12:32AM
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shreddenator
Posts: 329 - Karma: 28
First of taking shot at my mother (who has recently past you stupid fuck) is cheap at best.

Second new aluminum buckles do not break. Old ones do because aluminum fatigues over time. A buckle breaking on a new boot indicates something was wrong during fabrication or treatment processes.

Yeah shit breaks all the time, but you can' t deny the problems with Salomon skis and boots, in particular their Quest series. Complaints are abundant in this forum, and you can see it at you local hill. Ask your buddies about their 2010 Suspects. Nobody questions their STH binding.

I never used Fulltilt boots and it is easy for you to pick on them (that is what I was implying). I remember when they were Raichie or whatever in the 80' s.

You have a classic case of denial and blind brand loyalty.

Good luck with you Quest boots son....better bring duct tape...lots of it.

Jan 5 2011 8:35AM
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MEGAZORD
Posts: 4531 - Karma: -7
To make a blanket statement that aluminum buckles dont break is ludicrous. They break all the time. If you have ever worked as a boot fitter, or just in a ski shop in general, you would know this.

The SPK and quest style buckles are even more susceptible, due to such a wide yolk.

So a bad batch of buckles got out. Salomon will send new ones, and the matter is settled.

The Quest is actually an amazing boot. Like previously stated, marketing has less to do with this. It is not full tilt. This quest boot is actually brings something to the table.
Jan 5 2011 9:07AM
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shreddenator
Posts: 329 - Karma: 28
Blanket statement is inaccurate. I said new aluminum buckles should not break, old ones will...aluminum in all alloy forms will fatigue and fail eventually. This is the nature of aluminum.

The Quest series is brand new, ergo the buckle are relatively new. Clearly the buckles are of subpar quality....we do agree on this. Futhermore, Salomon has issued a massive recall for many boots in the Quest line....they told customers to stop using them immediately.

Now the question is: would you take a first generation product with a reputation for reliability issues into the backcountry? Especially if one out of three buckles could fail? Is brand loyalty more important than your well being and peace of mind?

Would you buy a 2009 Toyota at full retail?
If so would you then drive it into the middle of nowhere hoping there are no more problems?

A bad batch of buckles could mean a really bad day for somebody in the backcountry. Why are people protecting Salomon? They need to learn from there mistakes or their product will continue to suffer. Hold manufacturers accountable people.

That is all I got to say. I am not being unreasonable.
Jan 5 2011 11:26AM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
It's because people still trust the brand. I know there is a big brand loyalty debate in this thread. But people love what they love. Shit like this happens all the time with new products, people will stand by their company still. Salomon is aware of the problems that have arose in various Quest models, and they're dealing with it. They can't simply recall 80 000 boots because a bad batch of buckles came out. It's a simple replacement of buckles, whether it's from the Quest series or from another boot (like what my boots will get).
Mistakes are being made, and everyone is learning from them. Nordica has had problems with the riveting in their boots before, and I'm not even going to get into first generation skis such as Invaders. No company is perfect, I do however, expected a bit better quality control when it comes to something that a company has been doing for decades. I'm not going to hold it against them though. That's not me.

Any failure of any product can result in injury, or people can walk away from it. Simple as that. Someone could have easily hurt really bad if a pair of Invaders blew up.
Jan 5 2011 12:35PM
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MEGAZORD
Posts: 4531 - Karma: -7
I'm not particularly a fan of Salomon. In fact, I've had nothing but trouble with the brand for years. The only thing worth purchasing from them is a few select bindings, and boots.(NOT SPK)

The Quest was a step in the right direction for them. Its unfortunate that the rivet issues have been plaguing them. The buckles are the least of the issues.
Jan 5 2011 12:51PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6656 - Karma: 10,862
While Salomon is a marketing machine (every ski/boot company is a bit jealous of their marketing budget), the boot fits the average foot shape very well, and every boot-fitter in the world knows this. In fact, the majority of shops sell the Quest on the alpine wall as a fit option, not a walking option. Salomon sells only about 30,000 SPKs total for the world (an established, very well marketed boot) and FT is a small fraction of that (another overly marketed boot). They sold almost 3 times the SPK in the FIRST year of the quest. Marketing totally helps but it only goes so far. The fact is the boot fits the average foot shape and sells primarily because of its fit. Despite what you think, the reality is it is a home run with consumers and shops on a global scale. You will see 8 men's models and 4 women's models for 2011/2012.
Jan 5 2011 12:59PM
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shreddenator
Posts: 329 - Karma: 28
I can see what you are saying Mr. Atomic. If consumer continue to buy a product and use it for it' s intended application, well then yeah it would be success....until well I think I have explained myself previously.

Listen if you think people like their Quest Boots put up a post: Do you like you Salomon Quest boots?
That will clear this all up. If you are right, then I will humbly admit to your superior knowledge of the Salomon community.

Sounds Like fun....c' mon I am really curious...try it and we will see.

Peace
Jan 5 2011 1:10PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6656 - Karma: 10,862
I could be wrong, but I think the Quest buckles are Magnesium and not Aluminum.
Jan 5 2011 1:12PM
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MEGAZORD
Posts: 4531 - Karma: -7
The quest is a great boot. It has a few kinks to be worked out. Like he said, there are 12 separate models next year. They work exceedingly well with a large percentage of people, and are a smart buy for shops.
Jan 5 2011 1:13PM
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rudager
Posts: 11335 - Karma: 4,624
The locking backbone that allows the boot to go into the best walk mode ever is magnesium
Jan 5 2011 1:14PM
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MEGAZORD
Posts: 4531 - Karma: -7
Its a magnesium aluminum alloy. Too much mag, and they become brittle.
Jan 5 2011 1:15PM
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shreddenator
Posts: 329 - Karma: 28
Come on. Are you an industry robot? A backcountry boot with rivet problems, recalls, buckle problems....etc

Start a thread, like I said....you will see, alot of people think like me. Rhymes...I'm just playing.

But honestly, if Salomon moulds worked for my feet, like they do for most people, I would by the third or fourth generation Quest if they received good reviews. However these Quests are QUESTionable.

Start a thread... let us see what happens. Do you like Salomon' s most recent products specifically Quest series boots.
Jan 5 2011 1:21PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6656 - Karma: 10,862
the majority of people that bought the Quest were average consumers, and are probably not on many ski forums. They bought the Quest over the Impact or Hawx or RX... And I'm sure you will see complaints. But the vast majority of these boots went out to average, weekend skiers.

For me, the Quest is far too wide, but I know who it is for and how it is sold. We wanted to make a boot based off our 98mm race last, Salomon opted for the wider, average fit. The Tracker is more in-line with our philosophy, and it won't nearly be as successful given its 98mm last. But we knew that from the start.
Jan 5 2011 1:23PM
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