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New touring rig hitting the market, MFD alltimes

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yellav
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 1,215



looks like a pretty legit alternative to BCA's trekkers. lets you rip with your downhill bindings, potential to be able to switch it from different sets of skis. only drawback i can think of is that big metal purple plate on the bottom weighing a million pounds. seeing sage stoked on ripping them is selling me off on them though to be honest.
Nov 26 2010 9:16PM
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.[sanhedrin].
Posts: 1656 - Karma: 942

I'm glad to see this thread back on the 1st page :: Here are my (continued) concerns.

1. How are the bindings screwed in to the MFD plate?  Does this require special hardware? It can't use the normal screws bc they would hit the ski from the bottom of the plate they are screwed into, right?

2. $300 = bullshit

3. I agree that this must mess with the flex of the ski, although most of the time you would tour into soft snow or what was the point?  However, it was mentioned that any touring binding will have a similiar effect (duke, freerides, etc.), but won't it be more so?  Look how "long" the plate is?

Cool video from skiersrealm.com ::

http://www.skiersrealm.com/general/sia11-mfd-alltime-binding

Feb 1 2011 1:39PM
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rudager
Posts: 11336 - Karma: 4,642
from above post.

Click for larger image


MFD Alltime Backcountry/Sidecountry Touring Binding Plate from Skiers Realm on Vimeo.



Short video, doesn't explain much...

Another concern that has popped into my head just now, is there a potential for the plate to warp and twist over time?
The flex effects? and would a strong, more flexible material combined (if possible) with the metal toe and heel plate make more sense?

Just me thinking out loud. Then typing it here.
Feb 1 2011 1:48PM
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.[sanhedrin].
Posts: 1656 - Karma: 942

^Yes -- Look at that picture.  The MFD Plate itself seems to be much longer/bigger than a duke, but I haven't seen one in person.  Also, that picture's setup looks to fit a size 295mm boot sole length, right?  What happens what you have a BSL of 320+ BSL?  I read that they will come in sizes, so at what point does the plate cover too much area on the ski?

I ask bc I would ideally use this one setup to go out of bounds touring, but also so that I could clamp in and use it in bounds as well.  On hardpack will the plate effect the flex in this circumstance?

thoughts.  And disclaimer - I want this to work as well as it possible could.

Feb 1 2011 1:55PM
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kthnxbai.
Posts: 2847 - Karma: 179
That is/was my biggest concern.  After fondling them at SIA the other day, that plate is just soo damn long.  The weight doesnt seem to be a big issue, but the plate takes up soo much space.   It does stiffen up the ski quite a bit.

I really want to get a set out and test them.  They seem quite durable and well constructed though.


Feb 1 2011 3:35PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21097 - Karma: 8,526
the touring release switch didn't worry you at all?
Feb 1 2011 4:42PM
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kthnxbai.
Posts: 2847 - Karma: 179
not anymore than a fritschi
Feb 1 2011 5:42PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21097 - Karma: 8,526
i have the NAXO21's and after seeing the way the MFDs release into touring mode, it definitely made me worry. I feel a lot more safe in mine. that said, my NAXOs are much higher above the ski than these....

i wonder how the ergonomics of goin uphill is on these. my NAXOs feel very comfortable goin uphill.
Feb 1 2011 7:18PM
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kthnxbai.
Posts: 2847 - Karma: 179
Naxo's worry me wayyyy more though.  Maybe not the release, but the binding in general.  I have seen way too many failures.  A buddy of mine basically carries an entire spare binding with him because they have left him stranded so much, with both heel and toe failures. 

Hopefully the MFD will take care of all those issues and worries.  And the release on it still really doesn't worry me.  Maybe you need to see it and mess with it in person?

I wonder how they will feel going uphill as well. I definitely don'tthink this is a setup for someone who wants to wander far into the backcountry on long tours though, more frontcountry/sidecountry setup that can handle hard charging.
Feb 1 2011 7:48PM
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ReetsAdeets
Posts: 1531 - Karma: 611
Just took an avy course, and the guides showed all of us how to do this. They can take off their skins at the top and be ready to ski down in about a minute, and then put them back on in about 2. They just stay in tour mode, at least going from tour to ski, flip the ski under them so that it just rotates on the toepiece and is upside down, and rip the skins off.
Feb 1 2011 8:45PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21097 - Karma: 8,526
I have heard of a lot of problems with the NAXOs. What exactly do you mean by "failures"? I've heard of people breaking the toe piece on the old ones, before they made the "freeride" version. Personally, I haven't had any problems though but I have the "freerides" (NAXO 21's).

Also, toward that last comment, I have looked at the MFD in person. If you read my post above you'd see I saw them at SIA too.

I'm not trying to hate on the idea by the way, I just don't see the point in the MFDs. Cool, you can put whatever binding you already have, but you're already paying the price of a binding just to get the plate put on. Why not just get a touring specific binding? After having to remount your skis, it's not cost effective at all.
Feb 2 2011 12:01AM
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kthnxbai.
Posts: 2847 - Karma: 179
I havent heard of any improvements on the Naxos.  As far as I know all models are the same and all parts are interchangeable.  They are the exact same binding as the dynastar early tram legends.

Seen over the past 3 seasons, four toe pieces break and two heels fail.  The heels seemed to have sheered at the rear pivot point.

After looking at the MFD in person, what did you find so troubling about that release?  I didnt find anything too startling to make me not want to try it.

And as far as price i completely agree.  Thats the only reason I dont have a pair on my touring skis right now.  The length is a little annoying, but I was looking forward to just taking a pair of bindings I had sitting around already and putting them to use, but $300 for the plate is just too much.  I was expecting something similar to the competition out there.  I would realistically $150 mayyyybe a little more for a setup.

I still however really like the idea.  I had barons on my skis last year which we setup and maintained correctly and I (5'3" 118) had the DIN almost all the way up and would still release.  I like the fritschi's but they just arent as burly as an alpine binding.  Touring with an FKS or driver STH would be sweet IMO.  But like I said ive never tested the MFD i just like the concept and im sure it will continue to improve.
Feb 2 2011 2:21AM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21097 - Karma: 8,526
i'm about the same build as you so i wouldn't worry about breaking the NAXOs.


What worried me about the release was that all it took was a flick of my finger and it was released into touring mode. The MDF's release mechanism seemed too exposed and I feel like it could too easily be released into touring mode on accident. What I like about the NAXOs is the protection from unintentional release into touring mode. Same thing with the Baron/Duke.
Feb 2 2011 3:23AM
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.[sanhedrin].
Posts: 1656 - Karma: 942
All good points made above about Naxos, but it pisses me off that we seriously know nothing about this system, and no one from the company is trying to fix that.  Not even on TGR where the inventor of the MFD came on and simply said..."later this, later that".  It seems that, although I am excited at this prospect, I cant really get behind it without any idea of how it works.  And dammit I can't believe that no one really covered it at all at SIA.  Skiersrealm.com has a 15 second video and some pictures, but nothing at all that matters.  Also, Sterbenzz mentions them in the 4frnt SIA video from NStv, but still - nothing in regards to specs//details.
Feb 2 2011 10:41AM
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evtic
Posts: 1713 - Karma: 20
I was at SIA and was working on collaborating with MFD for some American made soft goods from Phar North.

The plate simply has a toe pivot and a heel lock mechanism. You mount your binders on the plates, different plates for different binders (tyrolia, look, solly, ect.)

The heel has three setting for touring height, I think 6 degrees, flat and 14 degrees. The plastic that provides the heel lock is so much beefier and tougher than the plastic on tougher touring setups. The heel lock is the riser and rotates about 160 degrees back for full unlock that is smooth and solid.

The actual plate stands about a mm or two off the ski with these metal blocks extruding form the MFD to allow for a full contact feel and solid base on the ski.

Hope this helps, I was sold when I felt them in hand.

Feb 2 2011 1:42PM
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Karma_Police
Posts: 2655 - Karma: 1,628
Sold for 300 bucks?  I'm sorry but thats just out of my and most peoples price range.  On top of needing to purchase actual bindings.

If these are 150 which is where they should be.
Feb 2 2011 2:46PM
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.[sanhedrin].
Posts: 1656 - Karma: 942

Finally someone with some answers!  I hope you don't mind a few more:

1. How many scews for the toe portion of the plate?  How many for the heel?

2. With the plate actually sitting only 1mm off the ski, with the bindings screwing right into the plate - How are the screws from the binding held into the plate?  Is it with bolts?  If so, then how is all of that hardware not hitting the ski and/or interferring with the plate-to-ski interface?

3. Does the overall length of plate not appear to be overly significant as compared to the length of the ski?

+ K to you for your help.

Feb 2 2011 4:20PM
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.[sanhedrin].
Posts: 1656 - Karma: 942

This video answers some of my questions:

Feb 2 2011 5:12PM
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evtic
Posts: 1713 - Karma: 20
1. The screws and pattern are based upon the binding pattern. So you simply use the screws provided. Same with heel.

2. Good question, this is my only fuzzy area. MFD seems to provide the nuts/bots/female to hold the screws in. They are pretty flush on the bottom of the MFD.Maybe MFD provides all of the hardware, that is up in the air.

3. The length is little longer than most inter grated systems or Dukes. The way it sits does seem to allow for ski flex to remain natural.

Hope this helps more.
Feb 3 2011 1:33PM
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kthnxbai.
Posts: 2847 - Karma: 179
Not positive on this, but Im pretty sure MFD is supplying the hardware and the holes on the MFD are drilled and tapped.  I dont think there will be nuts on the base on the plate.  Probably supply some loctite or something with the screws.
Feb 3 2011 2:21PM
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kthnxbai.
Posts: 2847 - Karma: 179
What's included with the MFD ALLTIME:
  • - MFD ALLTIME AT adaptor plate system with releasable heel lock
  • - Ski screws to mount to your skis
  • - MFD mounting template
  • - Machine screws to attach your ski bindings to the ALLTIME plate
  • - Loctite capsule (glue for your machine screws) *Loctite is MANDATORY to apply when attaching ski bindings to the ALLTIME plate
Feb 3 2011 5:08PM
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evtic
Posts: 1713 - Karma: 20
Thanks, that is good news!
Feb 9 2011 11:15AM
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Ecar
Posts: 665 - Karma: 82
Bump. Anymore news?
Apr 10 2011 9:00PM
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cool_name
Posts: 4295 - Karma: 3,131
bump any news as we get closer to the official release date
Jun 22 2011 11:22PM
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kthnxbai.
Posts: 2847 - Karma: 179
Haven't heard anymore other than they are on track for release.
Jun 25 2011 7:20PM
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evtic
Posts: 1713 - Karma: 20
saw two pairs in action this weekend...both riders said good things
Jun 28 2011 5:09PM
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danbrown
Posts: 11939 - Karma: 21,833
i checked these out in person today. they're super legit, way lighter than i expected. I'm definitely picking up a pair
Oct 26 2011 5:27PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21097 - Karma: 8,526
Dan, give us an update preaze.
Nov 25 2011 12:21AM
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kthnxbai.
Posts: 2847 - Karma: 179
i finally got my pair and cut them apart....literally.  I am in the smallest size for BSL on the STH one and I cut  almost two inches off the total length.  I just popped off the snap rings and removed the whole assembly, then measured the current gaps and even minimized them a bit and cut the radius on the back two inches forward, redrilled the holes and remounted the assembly.  I mock mounted them a couple times through the process and everything came out great.  They are now only a few millimeters longer than a small duke/baron.  could I be the first person to do this?// mounting this week with an STH 12 (driver, duh) to an Access.  Pics and trip reports to follow. and also a weigh in
Nov 26 2011 12:32AM
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Tanner-D
Posts: 2061 - Karma: 4,116
150$ would be the golden price in my mind
Nov 26 2011 1:25AM
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YewTard
Posts: 619 - Karma: 196
Just got my new skis and I've really been torn about what to put on them. Considering MFDs, Dukes, or just getting Looks and using Trekkers. The only thing I don't like about the Duke is the stack height- I'm already 6'2, I don't need/want to be up any higher. I guess the biggest concern for me is the price- I'm about to fork over $400ish for Looks, so throwing another $300 in to mount them on MFDs is kinda difficult. I mostly ski in bounds and will venture into the slackcountry and do the occasional hike, so I'm kinda just leaning towards Trekkers (yes I know they have several weaknesses). This should answer a lot of questions on the MFD though-http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/mfd-alltime-alpine-touring-binding
Nov 26 2011 10:17AM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21097 - Karma: 8,526
If you only "rarely" go into the backcountry, definnitely get the trekkers.
Nov 26 2011 11:02AM
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304NordMan
Posts: 2983 - Karma: 525

thats a legit set-up.

nowhere near as legit as say telemarking, but still....

Nov 26 2011 11:09AM
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mountainviper
Posts: 1931 - Karma: -3
These things look sick but I also see a ton of topsheets damage potential. Maybe there's another piece I didn't see but that recessed track looks like you'd shred right to the ski core after a few times out.
Nov 26 2011 11:27AM
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redlabeljwalk
Posts: 31 - Karma: 14
http://blistergearreview.com/gear-reviews/mfd-alltime-alpine-touring-binding

Super imformative article/ review should answer alot of questions.  In my opinion these look sick wish i could get some

Nov 26 2011 1:01PM
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redlabeljwalk
Posts: 31 - Karma: 14

Informative ( what a dumb ass) Also check out how sick these look

Atomic Ski touring bindings at least give marker a reason to keep updating with a little Compatition

http://www.skinet.com/ski/article/salomon-and-atomic-release-new-alpine-touring-binding

Nov 26 2011 1:16PM
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ThaLorax
Posts: 21097 - Karma: 8,526
when are those set to release and will they make a smaller binding that'd work for us lighter folk?
Nov 28 2011 1:01AM
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redlabeljwalk
Posts: 31 - Karma: 14

not sure about the atomic release

this seems like a cool idea

http://espn.go.com/action/freeskiing/story/_/id/7287546/lars-chickering-ayers-developing-new-binding-system

he started working with what became the all time and now has a new idea

Nov 28 2011 8:20PM
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