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TSA and the Government is out of control!

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PowSkierCO
Posts: 760 - Karma: 11
Our government is a joke. Read the story below....

DENVER -- A California man who refused a body scan and pat-down search at a San Diego airport has become an Internet sensation in the debate weighing fliers' security versus their privacy.

John Tyner posted a cell phone audio recording of his half-hour encounter Saturday at Lindbergh Field.

The software engineer couldn't board a flight after he refused a full-body scan that reveals an image of what's under his clothes. He also wouldn't allow a Transportation Security Administration worker to conduct a groin check. Tyner tells the worker, "If you touch my junk, I'm gonna have you arrested."




Tyner recorded audio of the whole 30-minute incident with the TSA on his cell phone's video camera.

According to the recording, a female supervisor explained the groin check and told Tyner, "If you're not comfortable with that, we can escort you back out and you don't have to fly today."

"OK, I don't understand how a sexual assault can be made a condition of my flying," said Tyner.

"This is not considered a sexual assault," replied the female supervisor.

"It would be if you were not the government," Tyner said. He then added, "I'd like only my wife and maybe my doctor to touch me there."

Tyner's blog says he left the airport -- but only after being threatened with a lawsuit and $10,000 fine for leaving the security area without finishing the screening process.

A man with no connection to Tyner, Brian Sodegren, started a website that suggests that the public purposely request pat-downs the day before Thanksgiving -- a move likely to clog security checkpoints on the busy travel day.

"It's the day ordinary citizens stand up for their rights, stand up for liberty, and protest the federal government's desire to virtually strip us naked or submit to an 'enhanced patdown' that touches people's breasts and genitals in an aggressive manner," his "Opt Out Day" website proclaims.

"We do not believe the government has a right to see you naked or aggressively touch you just because you bought an airline ticket," Sodegren said.

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano and TSA Administrator John Pistole defended the new practices on Monday, saying such moves are necessary to protect the flying public.
Nov 15 2010 7:16PM
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StevenR
Posts: 1372 - Karma: 33
I'll admit, that was actually really just poor wording on my part. I just couldn't think of a better way to do it at the time so let me start over on that point.

First of all, I DO care a lot about our rights and liberties and I DO think they are important no matter what, and I DO think they are worth fighting for. Just so that thats on the table.

But back to the point, what I meant when I said that was that a possible, and frankly quite debatable, very slight fudging of our 4th amendment rights, is a very, very small price to pay for being able to live a long life in which we are able to enjoy that, and all of the other rights we have been granted. That being said, I still don't see this as a violation of the 4th amendment because again, flying is 100% voluntary. If you choose to fly, there are certain things you may have to accept.
Nov 17 2010 7:46PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
understandable to not be moaning about the concept of dying for your rights.

however, I did not see any one on the morning of 9/11 saying "look at those champions of civil rights! Simple security measures could have prevented this, but damnit, by plunging that aircraft into the side of that building, the terrorists are helping those people exercise their rights."

And I also have a right to life, and the pursuit of happiness. Knowing that someone onboard the aircraft could potentially be posing a risk that could end my life, does not make me happy. Thus removing 2/3 of those unalienable rights. I don't mind a 30 seconds at most of awkwardness with the security people if it gives me peace of mind for the 6 hours im going to be in a small pressurized tube.

the real problem is that security is being expanded without making anyone safer.


(and by the way, I don't think anyone's used them yet, but quotes about freedoms from franklin and jefferson etc are useless. For 1, i don't think they had quite thought of air travel or for that matter...travel...when they said them. Bit dated, dont you think? And jefferson in particular was a raging hypocrite, so his words mean little to nothing. Freedom and civil liberties for all!.....except the 600 slaves he owned.)
Nov 17 2010 8:05PM
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PurpleDino
Posts: 1513 - Karma: 483
This argument is going to go on forever haha. But driving is also 100% voluntary, and we don't have to get searched in any way to go drive.  I don't know if other people have heard of it, but I believe in a voluntary society where you have the right to choose. 

You can fly voluntarily, but you should also be able to voluntarily opt out of a pat down or body scan if there is no reason to believe that you are a threat.  It's sort of like probable cause when you are driving.  If a cop smells pot, they have probable cause and can then search your car.  I think safety measures are important, but instead of throwing money around to buy full body scanners, it would make more sense to find another way to spot these "suspects".  Possibly implement something like probable cause searches except so it involved people.  Something along those lines seems like it could have potential but it would need to be fully developed before it was implemented.  A bunch of idiots like the TSA won't be able to develop that though.
Nov 17 2010 8:11PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
i say again.

where are the champions or rights when the subjects are seat belt laws, the shakedown the tobacco industry, and the income tax.

or lets throw in CFL's vs incandescent.

or fucking mandates to purchase a product from a private enterprise?

how about property rights? no one champions those.

plenty of band-wagoning going on here. the difference, this is right up the ally of 1984 fanatics.



stay consistent people.
Nov 17 2010 10:20PM
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Dan.
Posts: 7201 - Karma: 1,126
also, how big of an explosion do you think a would-be terrorist could make with an overloaded laptop battery, bic lighter or safety matches, a stick of deodorant thats actually made with homemade PETN, and a 16oz saline solution bottle filled with whatever liquid terrorists use to make explosions? I'd hazard to guess a very large one. All of these things you can easily and legally carry through the checkpoint. you could also toss a bottle of everclear bought at duty-free into the mix, for shits and giggles.

The security checkpoints are their for the illusion of security only.
Nov 17 2010 11:32PM
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Token
Posts: 41 - Karma: 10
this is called racial profiling.

sorry not to be a dick but the ppl who are trying to sneak stuff through security are trying to blend in and draw the least amount of attention to themselves. intense searches have to be applied to everyone, or they have to be completely random (like every 5th person in line) to be constitutional.
Nov 18 2010 12:24AM
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Trollolo
Posts: 793 - Karma: 16

<object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/d-N5adYM7Kw?fs=1&hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/d-N5adYM7Kw?fs=1&hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

I hope that works, if not here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-N5adYM7Kw&feature=sub

 1:00 to 1:20 is epic

Nov 18 2010 12:30AM
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shr@gler
Posts: 1233 - Karma: 912

there is too many dumbshits annual paychecks reliant on such ridiculous procedures that it has become out of touch of what is actually is required and what is necessary (which is nothing). Why in the fuck are people so paranoid about fuckin planes?  PLANESZ ARE SHIT

Nov 18 2010 12:37AM
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[tk]
Posts: 3863 - Karma: 1,906
i like that idea for thanksgiving day, except who wants to clog the airports? everyone just wants to see their family, and not have to wait on fucking delays
Nov 18 2010 12:37AM
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vandersteeze
Posts: 2650 - Karma: 1,511
Not even racial profiling, anyone flying overseas with a one way ticket, flying alone, etc
Nov 18 2010 12:38AM
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Token
Posts: 41 - Karma: 10
If things like that are know to the public, potential terrorists would buy 2 tickets or travel together.

But it seems ironic that these machines/pat downs are in US airports for passenger flying domestic or out of the US when all of the recent threats are from flights originating in other countries bound for the US
Nov 18 2010 12:48AM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,089
at least someone gets it,
Nov 18 2010 2:04AM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51664 - Karma: 162,489
inb4 franklin quote.


But seriously dude had it right. The concept of giving up liberty for security is fucking retarded. All you have to do is scare the sheep, then pass some new laws, they bitch and moan, then they get over it.


And everyone was supporting the patriot act after 9/11. Ignorance.
Nov 18 2010 3:52AM
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factory81
Posts: 3967 - Karma: 63
http://i.imgur.com/cm9vM.jpg

This will be airport security soon.
Nov 18 2010 5:50AM
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emlaa
Posts: 61 - Karma: 15
http://www.wallstreetoasis.com/blog/soros-dumps-all-tsa-scanner-sharescoincidence

doesn't look like the business world is too keen on this either.

but i would prefer the scan over the touchey uppy, however i am uncomfortable with both due to my lack of trust in the authorities/human nature not to keep/distribute images or comment on images.
Nov 18 2010 6:23AM
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jblaski
Posts: 5566 - Karma: 1,078
Just came across my Twitter. Perfect for you "naked pictures!!" retards.

http://shankman.com/a-rant-about-the-tsa-ranters/
Nov 18 2010 9:03AM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
this guys saying what i said on the 1st page i think.

people don't realize what requesting pat downs would do. No one at TSA would care. They all work in shifts, and regardless of lines, at some point, they get to just go home. These idiots holding up lines however, will miss flights, will ruin their own thanksgiving, and will lose money. If the passengers are the ones causing problems in security, the airlines aren't going to be delayed. They're going to say "fuck you, we already have your money for your seat, the planes are leaving on time." If passengers are the reason for hold ups in security, the airlines don't owe it to then to hold the planes. And they won't give refunds either because it was the passengers choice. They explicitly state how early you have to be at the gate, and even at security. And if you don't make it, tough.

So basically, this "protest" consists of the passengers ruining their holiday, the airline taking their money and not flying them, and the TSA operating as usual.
Nov 18 2010 10:13AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
so if i were told to go through a scanner or get a pat down, and i said no because its an unreasonable search. would i basically not be able to continue on to my flight?

Nov 18 2010 12:59PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
is this a trick question? of course you wouldnt be able to get on. you think they let people out of security measures cause they said no?
Nov 18 2010 1:02PM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,089
try to walk away after refusing and it's a 10k fine
Nov 18 2010 1:11PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
good interpretation by the writer of that article.


It's a 10k fine if you go through to the boarding area of the terminal beyond security. If you turn around and leave the airport, you don't get fined anything. They cannot fine you for leaving security, and leaving the airport.

it says he was threatened with a 10k fine, so he left the airport.
Nov 18 2010 1:40PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
thats what i was thinking, i just didnt know if there was any way they would let you through the normal security if you said no to the scan or pat down.

this is what i hate so much about it. even if we had the option to not do the scan if we were told, id probably still do it just because i dont give a shit, and if anything id find it funny that some dude has to stare at my junk. but the fact that you have no choice is what is fucked up. they are unreasonably searching you. i dont care how small the issue is. the fact that any government worker is allowed to take people aside and search them for no reason is just plain wrong and violates our rights.


Nov 18 2010 1:46PM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,089
NO.

you cannot leave the security area under your own free will after refusing the searches. Not to go to the bathroom, your car in the long-term parking lot or the gate.



"Tyner went over to the American Airlines counter where an agent, to his amazement, refunded the price of his non-refundable ticket.

Before he could leave, however, he was again surrounded by TSA employees who told him he couldn't leave the security area. One, who kept insisting he was trying to help Tyner, told him that if he left he would be subject to a civil suit and a $10,000 fine."






"Michael J. Aguilar, chief of the TSA office in San Diego, called a press conference at the airport Monday afternoon to announce the probe. The investigation could lead to prosecution and “civil penalties” of up to $11,000, he said.

TSA agents told Tyner on Saturday that he could be fined up to $10,000.

“That’s the old fine,” said Aguilar. “It has been increased.”

Penalties for what?

"The requirement for all the passengers is that once they enter the screening area and submit themselves to the screening process, to complete the screening," said Aguilar. "This passenger took exception."


quit posting lies!
Nov 19 2010 10:37AM
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Dan.
Posts: 7201 - Karma: 1,126
someone who is arguing that these security checks actually protect us, PLEASE respond to my argument above. you can make a perfectly TSA-legal bomb for around 300$ that could rip a hole in the side of a plane the size of an overweight great dane.
Nov 19 2010 6:52PM
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fujarome
Posts: 8630 - Karma: 1,561
ok my info came from a former air marshal, so apparently since he retired, they have changed it.

whats most surprising to me is that american refunded his ticket. Or that he was even able to leave the security area. Once he was out, TSA can go fuck themselves. They cant bring you back into the security area and claim you can't leave.

this is getting a bit complex...

which side of security did he go out on? He obviously couldn't have gone through to the boarding side of the terminal, because he never completed the screening.

But he also wouldn't have been able to leave and go back out. And there certainly wouldn't have been a ticket counter in security.


and quit posting lies-get over yourself. I got my info from someone who's been involved in airport/aircraft security his whole life who's just as pissed about the TSA as anyone. Just because you and I think differently doesn't mean shit.



the problem here isn't the searches. The problem is that the TSA increases security in a manner that does not improve safety.
Nov 19 2010 7:01PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
so newschoolers.

im flying tomorrow, but i dont think i want some dude fondling my wedding tackle.

so ill just let someone stare at my god like naked physique :)
Nov 19 2010 8:42PM
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factory81
Posts: 3967 - Karma: 63
dont forget to trim your balls
Nov 19 2010 10:24PM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
wear tinfoil undies
Nov 19 2010 10:53PM
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factory81
Posts: 3967 - Karma: 63
you can buy shirts thay say funny things on them when scanned by these machines. search for them on the net.
Nov 19 2010 10:59PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
all i can say is i better get a free dinner or something out of this. or atleast a phone number.....


i will report my findings tomorrow morning! via the mobile NS command station.
Nov 19 2010 11:21PM
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factory81
Posts: 3967 - Karma: 63
say you are homosexual and see if you can get a chick to pat you down.


let me know if this works. i'll say im a fag just to have a girl be forced to touch my weiner.....and her get paid for it. the funny thing is it would be legal.
Nov 19 2010 11:23PM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
best plan ever? i think so!


except it would probably be an ugly chick.

whos getting paid to touch my penis (giggle) so that would be like prostitution right?


honestly though, i dont know what all the up roar is now, ive been going through the naked image scanners for a year probably. granted it was only at a few test airports, but srsly.
Nov 19 2010 11:28PM
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factory81
Posts: 3967 - Karma: 63
i can't tape weed to my legs anymore and go flying.

im up in arms about this. i do find it to be a bit of a privacy matter though. say you get married. you want your wife being eye fucked by tsa security? than they see her naked? and fondle your kids or some shit..........


hell naw.....

can TSA disrespect a family anymore now-a-days?

i know we need security. but this is difficult to comprehend. i'd rather have americans register on a I CAN FLY LIST or some shit.........

plus the changes are so dramatic you wonder where will they stop? all we need is someone to swallow a bomb and than we all get enemas before we fly now?

plus i look at it like this. we can't have free healthcare, but we can pay for these wickedly retarded expensive machines and people to man them, yet we don't have similar security for a city bus or transit system where just as many people can be found as an airplane.

i don't want to draw attention away from the original topic of AIRPLANE SECURITY, but the whole transportation industry seems like they spend 97% security on tsa, and 3% on the rest. when a cargo container coming off the pacific could have something ridiculous in it......meanwhile we got idiots drinkin cokes and havin a smile while lookin at cock and tits all day long when they could be doing something arguably more effective.


think of the thousands of man hours being utilized in TSA, the increase in those hours over the years, and the actual security provided by these man hours. i love how when something doesn't work right, the government wants to expand it and spend more on it. The TSA failed on dec 25th, so they do this to what? make everyones lives shittier?

once again. do all these places abroad have such rigorous standards? because if they don't who gives a fuck. yeah everyone wants our planes to land there. the safest around, "everyones" been screened (cept those with connecting flights possibly) by an american airport vs. the zimbabwe national guard.

where will they stop wasting our money and making our lives more difficult all to offer a shitty amount of protection.

i think this whole thing is leading the government to a new boom industry of airline security and so on.....

for instance, ive said it before, i will say it again. michael chertoff, the former secretary security of the TSA, now works for rapiscan, one of 1 makers of the new advanced imaging technologies in use at airports nationwide. Hmmmmmm...................

i am a tax payer and i can't afford michael chertoff. hes got cadillac tastes with a ford income..
Nov 20 2010 12:46AM
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factory81
Posts: 3967 - Karma: 63
this was on reddit with the caption "your move TSA"

Nov 20 2010 12:50AM
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factory81
Posts: 3967 - Karma: 63
http://i.imgur.com/Ahyi3.jpg
Nov 20 2010 12:53AM
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the-big-lepowski
Posts: 1212 - Karma: 541
show me your genitals, your genitals, your GENITALIA! -E=MCvagina
Nov 20 2010 1:19AM
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factory81
Posts: 3967 - Karma: 63
http://famousdc.com/2010/11/19/new-tsa-bumper-stickers-we-handle-more-packages-than-the-usps/


Nov 20 2010 1:23AM
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Loco-Deer-Slayer
Posts: 1401 - Karma: 701
too many threads about fondling dicks these days


Nov 20 2010 5:28AM
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StevenR
Posts: 1372 - Karma: 33
Have you seen what the scans look like? From what I have seen, they are so low res that you cant make out nipples. and there isn't much of a discernible vagina. It would be like eye fucking a mannequin. I'm pretty sure if the TSA agents are that desperate they would find much better images on google. Furthermore, they will be looking at thousands of these every day, with the vast majority of them looking exactly the same. And heres the clincher. I'm 99% sure that if its a girl going through the scanner, its a girl behind the monitor.

As for your kids balls being fondled. Have you never seen a pat down before? Its not like they spit on their hand, reach into your pants and jerk you off. They go up your inner thigh, but rarely do they actually make contact with genitals, and if they do, its like the slightest little graze with the back of your hand. People talking about being groped and fondled sound like idiots. I have had the same thing done to me a million times at concerts and stuff, why don't so many people complain about that?

People just need to relax a little. I have already stated why I don't see it as encroaching on your rights, but even if we don't see eye to eye on that, logic is not subjective. And there is no logical reason really to be THAT pissed off about the scans and pat downs, when really they aren't nearly as fucked up as people make them seem.
Nov 20 2010 9:02AM
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emlaa
Posts: 61 - Karma: 15
this is all true but there are some sick fuckers out there. this rational approach doesn't transfer well when considering a small portion of the populous that are very weird. and that's what people are afraid of, just saying.
Nov 20 2010 9:10AM
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StevenR
Posts: 1372 - Karma: 33
Talk about irrational fears. I guess what this whole thread is about though. If there is a small portion of the population thats made up of sick fuckers, then the number of them who are TSA agents who are also administering screenings and pat downs is vastly smaller. To the point where it s probably much less than 1% of them. And if they are behind the monitor, ok fine, i guess they will shudder for 30 seconds. That doesn't change the fact that what they are looking at shows almost no detail. And if they are doing a pat down, even if they are a sick fucker they aren't going to molest a small child in front of hundreds of people. If they were going to do that, odds are they would have done it a long time ago and have been weeded out. But I can just about guarantee it will never happen. especially given how much people scrutinize TSA agents now.

Besides, I thought the fear was that the terrorists win if we do this?
Nov 20 2010 9:23AM
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emlaa
Posts: 61 - Karma: 15
terrorists won ages ago. but as you rightly said, this thread is about irrational fears and by introducing the scanners or pat downs you're reducing one fear and replacing it with another.

ultimately what would you prefer; the small chance of a terrorist attack or the inevitability of someone touching you up/seeing a bit more than usual combined with the also small chance of someone getting off on it. and so those who are susceptible to abuse (children) or close to those susceptible will fear the TSA checks more, those who aren't will fear the terrorist thread more.
Nov 20 2010 9:32AM
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factory81
Posts: 3967 - Karma: 63
The line is being crossed everyday


Look back in the thread. I posted links to flyertalk earlier which showed kids being groped to the point of going in to an all out screaming tantrum. Its fucking sick.

Im nto going to post an actual picture of cock and balls here because thats pretty inappropriate

If you want to see what the advanced imaging technologies can render ^^^^^^ that pic there is it. There ARE some less than impressive advanced imaging technologies that show more distorted and blurry images. But you are either walking in this machine here that can REALLY render you quite well, or you are going in the less detailed one.

Lets be honest, what fucking good are these security systems if they cannot AT LEAST display that kind of a picture I showed you above. If they cannot atleast display that than they have gained NOTHING by using these security scanners. Don't kid yourself, these scanners are here to see in detail what you have below your clothes. What fucking good are these if they don't do that VERY WELL?

My tax dollars are fucking wasted every motherfucking day on bullshit.
Nov 20 2010 9:44AM
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skiminnesota
Posts: 9093 - Karma: 429
reporting live from the friendly skys. did not gwt padded down or rectum virtually examined. thanks google for giving me free internet!
Nov 20 2010 10:04AM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,089
exactly.


but you got it backwards, there are more "sick fuckers" than terrorists


And all this talk about how the images are so grainy.... you don't think technology will improve? You don't think the guy who sells the machines to the airports, former homeland security secretary Michael Chertof, will just sell thousands of new units at our expense?



They've really got us cornered though with how adamant some of you guys are that the terror threat is rational.

pussies
Nov 20 2010 11:08AM
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StevenR
Posts: 1372 - Karma: 33
First of al, the line has been crossed a few times, and those few times the line has been crossed, people have been vocal about it, and rightfully so. But think about how many millions of people are subjected to the tests every month. I promise that outrageous things like that don't happen THAT often. Keep in mind also, its a new system. I would say that the few times the line has been crossed, it wasn't done so intentionally and people were working under supervisors orders, or what they interpreted them to be. Every time it happens, agents will get a better understanding of the rules and that stuff will happen even less often. I promise. Also, I'm not saying that bad stuff definitely didn't happen, but as far as the little kids screaming thing goes, they are little kids. They have been taught their whole lives about the difference between good touch and bad touch and if they are young enough its not hard for them to misinterpret a pat down as a bad touch, and little kids will scream about anything. Like I said though, I'm not saying bad stuff DEFINITELY didn't happen.

As for the scan, i meant to say in that first post that you quoted that you CAN see undetailed images of dick and balls. I was refuting your statement that your wife would get eye fucked. Vaginas dont show up quite as well because they have less definition to begin with. and like i said, no nipples either. Besides, whether your talking about a man or a woman, even the higher resolution images dont have enough detail to make the genitals look that different from one another. They are basically looking at the same thing over and over again, and its not like they show identifying marks.

In response to what somebody above said (pink name, sorry i dont remember your user name), I guess I would have to classify myself as one of the people who thinks that the very small chance that somebody might think they got touched inappropriately for a split second is better than the small chance of thousands of people dying.
Nov 20 2010 11:12AM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,089
it's not a small chance someone got touched inappropriately, if anyone but the government touched your genitals or photographed you naked it would be illegal.


So rather than thousands of people dying every decade, 100 million get violated every year.

Nov 20 2010 11:16AM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
CDC fast stats, cause of deaths per year in US

* Heart disease: 616,067
* Cancer: 562,875
* Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 135,952
* Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 127,924
* Accidents (unintentional injuries): 123,706
* Alzheimer's disease: 74,632
* Diabetes: 71,382
* Influenza and Pneumonia: 52,717
* Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 46,448
* Septicemia: 34,828

DoS
U.S. citizens worldwide killed as a result of incidents of terrorism: 56


what the fuck are you talking about?
Nov 20 2010 11:24AM
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StevenR
Posts: 1372 - Karma: 33
The vast majority of people in this thread have obviously never experienced a pat down before, because everyone keeps talking about getting their genitals touched, and thats not really what happens. They touch your leg. At most, the back of their hand accidentally grazes a ball hair. As far as the "naked photographs", thats also an overstatement and you know it. But lets pretend it wasn't for a second. Its perfectly legal to take naked photographs of a person if they consent to it. No matter who they are (if you say a single thing about child porn...just dont). As far as I'm concerned, if your choosing to fly on on airplane your consenting to security measures. If you dont want to consent, dont fly. Back to reality now though, the pictures can hardly be classified as naked photos. it looks like a pretty solid pencil drawing, but there is not real detail.

Stop being so ignorant and getting mad about it because you think your supposed to. Like I said, i respectfully disagree with the people who say they see it as a violation of rights, but at least I can respect that argument. I have no respect for the argument of "herp derp they grab mah junk and shoot porn pics of me, raaaage".
Nov 20 2010 11:26AM
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StevenR
Posts: 1372 - Karma: 33
I said a CHANCE, bro slice. as in it could happen. Look at the statistics for 2001 (if you really fucking have to) for proof, then come back. It can happen again if people are dumb.
Nov 20 2010 11:29AM
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