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Mixing Different Framerates...

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bustinthejus
Posts: 2419 - Karma: 74
Hey M&A Maybe you guys can help me out with my question... So I understand the different framerates and all, and it sounds like using 30p or even 24p would be good for regular ski filming, but if I wanted some solid slow-mo, I would have to use 60i, deinterlace, and then conform to 24p. But here's my question, if I had 60i footage, editting on a 24p timeline, and I want a shot to be normal speed until say when the skier is in the air, and then have it normal speed again once he lands, how would I do this? I'm using After Effects/Premiere, and I know there is a speed setting, but would that give my smooth slow-mo? Like would it just start using more frames and conforming it for me? Like for example, if I have it at 50% slow-mo, will it be using 48 frames out of my 60 and conforming that to 24p, or would it just conform my 60i deinterlaced footage to 24p and then just stretch out my 24 frames into a choppy slow-mo?


Sorry for the rambling, and I'm probably not super clear, so if you need anymore info/clarification just ask!

Thanks!

Nov 8 2010 4:04PM
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Heath.
Posts: 838 - Karma: 149
How are you planning on conforming 60i to 24p? 60i=30p so you're going to get 80% if you actually conform. I think you're confusing 60i with 60p...
Nov 8 2010 4:11PM
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Heath.
Posts: 838 - Karma: 149
And if you cut from your original to your conformed shots, it should work like that. You might have to do some rendering, but i used to conform 60p to 30p and mix with my normal 60p, so itd be a 60p regular speed then 60p conforms to 30p then cut back to 30p again. When its rendered and exported, its all 30p anyway.
Nov 8 2010 4:13PM
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bustinthejus
Posts: 2419 - Karma: 74
Ah thanks for the help! I did mean 60i, but I was thinking about deinterlacing it, and then conforming to 60p so it was like a faux 60p but with half the resolution, and then conforming that to 24p or 30p to get slow-mo. Also, I guess I worded my question funny, because I know I can mix 30p footage with 60i/p footage with 60p footage conformed to 30p, but I was wondering if I had one piece of footage, shot at 60i, and I was editting it on 24p or 30p timeline, if I could have the shot vary from regular speed to full-blown slow-mo (conformed) without it looking choppy. For example, say I had footage shot at 60i, deinterlaced and conformed to 60p at half resolution, editting it on a 30p timeline, if I could play the first part of the shot at full speed, gradually slowed to %50 speed,a nd then sped back up to full speed? I believe the correct term for it is time remapping, but I just wasn't sure how well time remapping worked for footage that was conformed...



Again I'm sure that question makes a lot more sense to me than it does to you, so feel free to ask for clarification...


One last thing, you said I could mix 60p conformed to 30p footage, with normal speed 60p footage, with 30p footage... If I had a shot of a skier hitting a jump, and had it going at full speed for the first part, then slow-mo as he hit the jump, and then full speed once he landed again, would I really need a gradual slow down/speed up, or would it look fine straight up cutting from full speed 60p footage to 50% speed 60p footage, right back to full speed 60p footage?
Nov 8 2010 4:28PM
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Heath.
Posts: 838 - Karma: 149
In my edit Fuck! I went from 60p 100% to 60/30p (60p conformed to 30p) and straight back to 30p. No ramping and it looks fine IMO. If you have FCP7 or AE, you can take your raw 60p shot, don't conform and just ramp motion. You can slow down to 50-55% with fcp or AE and it still looks fine.
Nov 8 2010 4:35PM
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Heath.
Posts: 838 - Karma: 149
Fuck, straight back to 60p 100% my bad.
Nov 8 2010 4:35PM
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EH_DUBS
Posts: 3080 - Karma: 969
I don't really understand what your asking... but if you want a good framerate converter i was using this a while ago to do 60i to 24p. but it can convert to whatever.

http://www.videocopilot.net/presets/frame_rate_converter/
Nov 8 2010 4:39PM
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bustinthejus
Posts: 2419 - Karma: 74
Perfect, thanks a lot!
Nov 8 2010 5:09PM
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Bentley@DOSMedia
Posts: 1410 - Karma: 1,827
What E heath said, but 24p is not a good frame rate to shoot skiing in btw.

1080p24 = sharpest/ crispest but not good for motion and action

Seems like you understand 1080i60 which is nice. I dont believe its half resolution (a little more then half). It comes out as something like 970x400 or something weird... actually it depends what camera and codec you are using. So nevermind that.

Anyways, I would just say I would recommend 30p over 24. Yeah 24 is crisper and a film look, but IMO it is not good for action or skiing.

Also you can convert 60i to 24p using a 2:3 3:2 pulldown from my understanding as you were saying. Thats actually what your camera internally does, since I am not aware of any prosumer or consumer camera that does 1080pn24. Usually a RAW shot from a camera starts around 1080p60 (depends on camera, sometimes a little over 2k too) and then gets compressed from there to 1080i60 to be made to 30p or 24p or some cams can compress it to 720p60 or 720pn30 or 720pn24.

Do what e heath said for ramping though. Im not familiar with premier, but AE has a great remapping graph thats fun to use.
Nov 8 2010 6:16PM
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Heath.
Posts: 838 - Karma: 149
720p24pn > 1080i24pa IMO
Nov 8 2010 6:32PM
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Bentley@DOSMedia
Posts: 1410 - Karma: 1,827
It does depend on the sensor and NLE being used, as we just discussed, haha. Ill just share some information here.

1080i24pa can be a pain to work with since there are still frames from that are 60i. Like if you go frame by frame through the shots you will notice frames taht look interlaced.

These are two ways to get rid of the pulldown:

#1. select clip(s), --> click on TOOLS --> click on REMOVE ADVANCE PULLDOWN

#2. select clip(s), --> click on TOOLS --> click on CINEMA TOOLS REVERSE TELECINE.

Im sure he already knows that, but thought I would share since 1080i24pa is the way it is.

720pn24 is MUCH easier to work with in my mind and is pretty similar to 1080, although 1080 is a sharper image once its pulldowns removed.
With that said, it also does depend on the camera and the way it gets its 1080. Most cameras RAW shots are more then 1080p so this should be the case for most.
Nov 8 2010 7:08PM
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bustinthejus
Posts: 2419 - Karma: 74
Ah thanks for the good information guys!


As for using 30p over 24p, yeah you're probably right - I'm still mostly a beginner so although I'm sure some pros can get awesome shots with 24p, I would probably benefit more from just using 30p... Also, if it helps at all, I'm shooting with an HV40, which supposedly shoots 24p native and 24p w/ pulldown, but I honestly don't know if that pertains to what you guys are talking about haha...
Nov 8 2010 9:06PM
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