Science behind being born gay?

Posts: 4881 - Karma: 147

Karma: 147

Posts: 4881

No Life

I don't get this...

let's get back to 1990s computer games? commander keen anyone? or what about worms world party! it was the transformice of 2001.

Nov 4 2010 12:33PM

0 0

Craze

Posts: 1132 - Karma: 423

Karma: 423

Posts: 1132

Insane

That got me rolllin!! haha +k

Nov 4 2010 12:33PM

0 0

Coop8o2

Posts: 80 - Karma: 23

Karma: 23

Posts: 80

Wannabe

I was born straight so I see nothng wrong with the statement that you can be born gay.

Nov 4 2010 12:40PM

0 0

fdsa

Posts: 686 - Karma: 19

Karma: 19

Posts: 686

Ridiculous

That is completely false.

The Bible addresses in numerous places that relations between people of the same sex are wrong by Christian standards, Romans 1 being the most plain that I am aware of.

Nov 4 2010 12:50PM

0 0

fdsa

Posts: 686 - Karma: 19

Karma: 19

Posts: 686

Ridiculous

You have a long and storied history of making affirmative statements and then giving long, convoluted statements about ongoing research.

The condensed and correct version of your statement is that nobody has proven anything, either confirming or disproving that people are born gay, and that research is ongoing.

I would be VERY interested for links to fully available, peer reviewed medical journals which show definitive proof that people can be born gay.

Nov 4 2010 12:57PM

0 0

Quinn69

Posts: 293 - Karma: 141

Karma: 141

Posts: 293

Loner

I think this should have been a /thread imo... you cannot make a comback from that. +k

Nov 4 2010 1:07PM

0 0

panojibber

Posts: 3382 - Karma: 216

Karma: 216

Posts: 3382

Addict

I don't think you really understood my post. Maybe you should go back, re-read it, and try again.

And if you're citing the bible, you should probably quote it (keep in mind however, that its more than 1000 years out of date).

Nov 4 2010 1:27PM

0 0

Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,386

Karma: 8,386

Posts: 10014

Crazy Fool

There was a peer reviewed study a while back, using different mammals that reproduced quickly. The study re-created small ecosystems, and then allowed the mammals to over-populate them. As the environments became stressed because of the impact of the mammal population, more and more of the animals were born that would only attempt to mate with members of the same sex.

I read that back in highschool, and I can't find a link to it anywhere now. That's the most interesting "science behind being born gay" i've ever heard of.

Nov 4 2010 1:58PM

0 0

vailsux.com

Posts: 1769 - Karma: 440

Karma: 440

Posts: 1769

Insane

What is there not to get. I am not gay, thus I don't know what it is like be gay. How can I fully understand homosexuality if I don't know how it feels?

Nov 4 2010 1:59PM

0 0

PASKIINGSUCKS

Posts: 9097 - Karma: 777

Karma: 777

Posts: 9097

Crazy Fool

meh you could draw the conclusion that it is a product of environment sort of thing from a study like that.

I don't really like to draw conclusions about people from animal studies though. Sure maybe animals show gay behavior, animals also commit incest and rip each other limb from limb too.

Nov 4 2010 2:49PM

0 0

Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,386

Karma: 8,386

Posts: 10014

Crazy Fool

haha, well I wasn't stating it was any sort of proof, just that it was the most interesting thing i had ever read pertaining to the topic of the thread.

definitely hard to make any case with it, but it is interesting. Assuming that homosexuality could be a trait that's expressed based on living in an overpopulated ecosystem as a natural form of population control is really crazy to think about.

Nov 4 2010 2:54PM

0 0

babysteeze84

Posts: 720 - Karma: 285

Karma: 285

Posts: 720

Ridiculous

This. Another way to state one of the arguments would be "people are pre-dispositioned genetically at birth to either be "straight" or "gay"". Psychologists have done studies on the human brain in regards to genetics and puberty (it's very tricky and I definitely don't understand all of it) and they have discovered that certain genes/codices turn on/off with different events in our lives (having children is one of these events for example). At puberty different genes/codices turn on/off and homosexuality is one of these things, however, it's not as simple as I'm making it sound but in short, your teacher is right and scientific study has shown this and there is a lot of ongoing research on this subject. Many people still believe however that being gay is a choice and it's one of those arguments that will probably last forever because not everyone believes in science/scientific research.

Nov 4 2010 3:07PM

0 0

MADDECENT

Posts: 5579 - Karma: 951

Karma: 951

Posts: 5579

No Life

Amongst a lot of ignorance and irrelevant posts to the actual science of being gay, I have found what I need.

Thank you, Karma has been given where it is due.

Nov 4 2010 5:55PM

0 0

Posts: 4881 - Karma: 147

Karma: 147

Posts: 4881

No Life

um......just because you don't know what it's like doesn't mean you can't understand them. the only difference is that they like the same sex.

I don't go around saying I don't get why those indonesians talk that way. they were just born that way, just like I was born in an english speaking society.

Nov 5 2010 12:32AM

0 0

gordie.

Posts: 2014 - Karma: 84

Karma: 84

Posts: 2014

Addict

dude.. have you been watching all of seananners' welcome to minecraft videos? so good, not helping with my SEVERE addiction I'm nursing. This game is crack, and no one believes it until they try it.

Nov 5 2010 12:48AM

0 0

Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564

Karma: 564

Posts: 17711

Post Whore

Seannaners is awesome.

"Oh, sweet, this place looks sick.... I shall call you... Vagina World."

GoldGloveTV had that awesome Quad commentary with Bendro, Bash, and that other guy. Pure gold and awesome.

Nov 5 2010 1:00AM

0 0

PASKIINGSUCKS

Posts: 9097 - Karma: 777

Karma: 777

Posts: 9097

Crazy Fool

Now that is a product of environment. Do you think if an indonesian person was born in the US and raised speaking english they would automatically know their native language or any of the customs?

Nov 5 2010 9:33AM

0 0

Posts: 4881 - Karma: 147

Karma: 147

Posts: 4881

No Life

I was giving that example purely for the understanding aspect. sure you're not exactly like them but you can understand where they're coming from and be tolerant at least. the guy I quoted said he just doesn't understand gay people. well I don't understand that... honestly...

and whereas nationality and native language are environmental influences they aren't something a person themselves can choose. most people who are born in a country are stuck there.

and for all the doubters, i kindly looked up a few relevant articles in my university's journal database. (you're welcome.) if you want to read them you will have to visit your own local university. just so you know, experimentation and "proving" theories takes much longer in the social sciences, especially psychology, since there are many more factors, possible multiple variables involved, and to conduct a study that is unbiased and applicable to all populations requires a lot of time and thought put into the design... sometimes a longitudinal design, which can take more than a decade to complete. since homosexuality was only taken out of the DSM a few decades ago, research is still limited, especially in genetic theories; genetic research itself is a new field. and that is why nothing has been "proven". modern psychologists do not aim to "prove"; rather, when multiple studies have shown that certain variables lead to certain results, a certain hypothesis is held as true. if a "groundbreaking" study produces drastically different results, the theory needs more varied research. however, the "groundbreaking discoveries" of Newton's day are a thing of the past.

do some research on how psychology research is done before you demand proof

without further ado.......

Santtila, Pekka, et al. "Testing Miller's theory of alleles preventing androgenization as an evolutionary explanation for the genetic predisposition for male." Evolution and Human Behavior 30, no. 1 (January 2009): 58-65. PsycINFO, EBSCOhost (accessed November 5, 2010).

two articles that suggest homosexuality is genetically advantageous

Ciani, Andrea Camperio, Francesca Iemmola, and Stan R. Blecher. 2009. "Genetic factors increase fecundity in female maternal relatives of bisexual men as in homosexuals." Journal of Sexual Medicine 6, no. 2: 449-455. PsycINFO, EBSCOhost (accessed November 5, 2010).

Iemmola, Francesca, and Andrea Camperio Ciani. 2009. "New evidence of genetic factors influencing sexual orientation in men: Female fecundity increase in the maternal line." Archives of Sexual Behavior 38, no. 3: 393-399. PsycINFO, EBSCOhost (accessed November 5, 2010).

Santtila, Pekka, N. Kenneth Sandnabba, Nicole Harlaar, Markus Varjonen, Katarina Alanko, and Bettina von der Pahlen. 2008. "Potential for homosexual response is prevalent and genetic." Biological Psychology 77, no. 1: 102-105. PsycINFO, EBSCOhost (accessed November 5, 2010).

Jannini, Emmanuele A., Ray Blanchard, Andrea Camperio-Ciani, and John Bancroft. 2010. "Male homosexuality: Nature or culture?." Journal of Sexual Medicine 7, no. 10: 3245-3253. PsycINFO, EBSCOhost (accessed November 5, 2010).

an article that summarizes some of the genetic research thus far

Dawood, Khytam, J. Michael Bailey, and Nicholas G. Martin. 2009. "Genetic and environmental influences on sexual orientation." In Handbook of behavior genetics, 269-279. New York, NY US: Springer Science + Business Media, 2009. PsycINFO, EBSCOhost (accessed November 5, 2010).

anxiety and depression in homosexuals could be due to gender-atypical behaviour in childhood and not homosexuality--not about genetic factors but relevant to the discussion, I think

Alanko, Katarina, et al. "Psychiatric symptoms and same-sex sexual attraction and behavior in light of childhood gender atypical behavior and parental relationships." Journal of Sex Research 46, no. 5 (September 2009): 494-504. PsycINFO, EBSCOhost (accessed November 5, 2010).

you're welcome.

Nov 5 2010 12:37PM

0 0

ChadThundercock

Posts: 3071 - Karma: 830

Karma: 830

Posts: 3071

Addict

whats the science behind catholic priests being pedophiles?

Nov 5 2010 1:03PM

0 0

Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642

Karma: 14,642

Posts: 11249

Crazy Fool

shitstorm ENGAGE

Nov 5 2010 1:16PM

0 0

Caleb.E

Posts: 3556 - Karma: 1,015

Karma: 1,015

Posts: 3556

Addict

this

Nov 5 2010 1:21PM

0 0

Armanzoid

Posts: 2453 - Karma: 26

Karma: 26

Posts: 2453

Addict

Well, I have known a fare amount of gays through my life, and being that I live in the gay capitol of the world that is NYC, I am well accustomed to their culture.

I believe personally that there are two types of gays. Those who we born that way, and those who were conditioned that way through their upbringing. I'd say born that way is about 30% and the rest grew into it in some way. I just don't believe, or really want to believe, that our genetics have that much strict control over how we are as people. If I happen to like to fuck guys and girls, is there a specific bi gene? Is there a specific gene that makes me motivated, what about a lazy gene that makes me not seek success. I just can't buy that it is all written in stone before we enter this world, but I still admit that some things genetically stronger in some people, thats why I say they are born that way 30% of the time. By discounting nurture, you are totally taking out free will. Free will is the ability to be gay or not, and the fact that none will persecute you for it. Nurture has a massive role in our life, you don't remember your genetics shaping your personality, you remember your childhood. Genetics might make you lean towards the same sex, but nurture shapes that feeling, and if you really want to do that, or go with the opposite sex.

Just as a side note, I personally think men who like to fuck other men are more in that 30% range. Not little skinny twinks that look like girls, but like tough dudes that are men and can chop a tree down and later plow your ass. I talked with gays about this, they all hate the twinks. They think if you fuck them, you might as well be fucking a girl.

Nov 5 2010 1:24PM

0 0

ChadThundercock

Posts: 3071 - Karma: 830

Karma: 830

Posts: 3071

Addict

correction here - some*

Nov 5 2010 1:25PM

0 0

pow314

Posts: 424 - Karma: 111

Karma: 111

Posts: 424

Ridiculous

the thing that always blows me away about this topic is that it plays a role in political elections. many people let a polatition's stance on gay marriage play a factor in elections- THAT is fuckiong retarded. with as many problems we have in our world the fact that people even have to discuss gay marrige is a total mind fuck.

Nov 5 2010 1:36PM

0 0

vailsux.com

Posts: 1769 - Karma: 440

Karma: 440

Posts: 1769

Insane

It is not an issue of I don't what it is like, but rather I will never know what it is like. I can learn whatever language they speak in Indonesia and understand their dialect, but I cannot learn what it is like to be sexually attracted to male.

I will never FULLY understand homosexuality, but that does not mean i can't accept gays despite our differences. I can understand certain aspects, but I will never gain a full understanding, which doesn't even matter. The important thing is acceptance.

P.S. People aren't born talking in a certain accent or dialect, they are taught to speak a certain way.

Nov 5 2010 1:44PM

0 0

Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,386

Karma: 8,386

Posts: 10014

Crazy Fool

Catholic priests are no more or less likely to be pedophiles than leaders in other faiths. Or people as a whole, for that matter.

I'm not going to waste my time finding and linking actual studies for a troll, but if you want to read more about it, this article mentions some of the major ones:

http://blogs.denverpost.com/hark/2010/05/25/scandal-creates-contempt-for-catholic-clergy/39/

Nov 5 2010 2:23PM

0 0

snowking249

Posts: 1452 - Karma: 34

Karma: 34

Posts: 1452

Insane

But how come it is mainly Catholic priests, atleast the ones that get reported/on the news? To me, it makes me believe that there are alot more of them than any other religion. am not Catholic but maybe it could have something to do with their faith? Simply a question for someone that is Catholic to answer.

Nov 5 2010 2:28PM

0 0

Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,386

Karma: 8,386

Posts: 10014

Crazy Fool

It's because of the nature of media.

It's the same reason we hear about the latest Paris Hilton BS on the news, rather than genocides in Africa, or the most recent murders or kidnappings, rather than natural disasters in other parts of the world. Basically, because it's more dramatic and interesting. Bear with me here.

"Christianity" in all its forms represents the highest numbers of followers in the world; Catholicism is the largest among them, the oldest, and the most controversial because of it's soiled history (crusades, corruption of popes, inquisitions, etc.) For the same reasons you hear about Lindsay Lohan getting a DUI but not random college kids getting DUIs. In the public eye, it's the biggest celebrity, so when something goes wrong, it comes under scrutiny. And it makes the news.

The other reason is that being such a large religious group, it also has the most apparent public figurehead, being the Pope. Everyone knows who the pope is and what he looks like. But, can you tell me who the worldly leader of the Presbyterian church is?

I think that The Church has NOT handled this well... and that gives the media something more to grab on to for a more interesting story.

I'm Catholic. I think what has happened is detestable, horrible, disgusting. I'm not going to defend the actions of any of those priests. However, I think that to fully understand the situation, you have to understand it from a Catholic perspective. The Church is made up of people - who are inherently imperfect and capable of doing horrible things, no matter who they are or claim to be.

But that's not what this thread is about. Feel free to PM me if you still have questions.

there's actually been some interesting info in here, so people feel free to get back on track.

Nov 5 2010 3:37PM

0 0

Mr.Luke

Posts: 2441 - Karma: 166

Karma: 166

Posts: 2441

Addict

Well maybe. Some people are probably like, "But some people turn gay when their older after they've had a girlfriend!" Well maybe people can be born bisexual too.

Nov 5 2010 3:38PM

0 0

Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642

Karma: 14,642

Posts: 11249

Crazy Fool

maybe but in many of those cases (having a girlfriend or even a wife then "turning" gay) i'd bet they were gay the whole time but couldnt face it/didnt want to

Nov 5 2010 3:47PM

0 0

Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642

Karma: 14,642

Posts: 11249

Crazy Fool

a lot of what you said is true but like you said here... a big issue in that whole topic is the church's handling of the affairs and not being on the up and up about punishing those responsible for such hideous acts

but like you also said, not the place for this. back on track!

Nov 5 2010 3:49PM

0 0

Arabian.

Posts: 9648 - Karma: 218

Karma: 218

Posts: 9648

Crazy Fool

I was curious once. And then I figured out dick was awsum and I went kind of wild.

Nov 5 2010 3:56PM

0 0

.frenchy

Posts: 18227 - Karma: 12,372

Karma: 12,372

Posts: 18227

Post Whore

ew ew ew

Nov 5 2010 3:57PM

0 0

Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642

Karma: 14,642

Posts: 11249

Crazy Fool

as long as we're asking stupid questions... say a hottie of a lady friend got naked would you be completely uninterested in it? would it be like me being in the locker room with my buddies?

i know it's subjective and is different for everyone, but in my simple mind i cant imagine not liking tits

Nov 5 2010 3:58PM

0 0

Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564

Karma: 564

Posts: 17711

Post Whore

Just watch South Park man. Mrs. Garrison gets away with it.

Nov 5 2010 4:32PM

0 0

Gstrong

Posts: 4776 - Karma: 519

Karma: 519

Posts: 4776

No Life

no, im not gay that was methtime who commented with on my computer and i was calling a faggot not in a bad way

Nov 5 2010 4:34PM

0 0

Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564

Karma: 564

Posts: 17711

Post Whore

How is can you call someone a faggot in a non-bad way.

Nov 5 2010 4:37PM

0 0

Gstrong

Posts: 4776 - Karma: 519

Karma: 519

Posts: 4776

No Life

really its basically only the way you take an insult but that contradicts myself so i dont know

Nov 5 2010 4:40PM

0 0

Posts: 4881 - Karma: 147

Karma: 147

Posts: 4881

No Life

the catholic church forbids its priests to marry, am I right?

Nov 5 2010 5:45PM

0 0

Edew19

Posts: 365 - Karma: 13

Karma: 13

Posts: 365

Loner

Didn't Freud have some theory about this that is pretty widely accepted or at least considered? Or is that outdated? It was like during infancy, a child is normally attracted to the parent of opposite sex. But future gay children realized that society frowned on incest so they were conditioned to not only be unattractive to the parent of the opposite sex but everyone of that sex.

Nov 5 2010 5:47PM

0 0

Posts: 4881 - Karma: 147

Karma: 147

Posts: 4881

No Life

outdated. pretty much all of freud's theories are not accepted as valid by modern psychologists now. his research methods were flawed anyhow.

Nov 5 2010 5:50PM

0 0

theabortionator

Posts: 51744 - Karma: 163,523

Karma: 163,523

Posts: 51744

Play Ball

I think it's something you're born with but regardless, it isn't a conscious decision. The religious folks are the ones that talk about "choosing to live the gay lifestyles". As if people really just woke up one day and decided to be gay. Hey I want to lose some of my friends and get picked on constantly. I want to get beat up over something. I want my parents to hate me. obvious thing that goes through every gay kids mind before they decide to be gay.

As far as that though, even if it's environmental and not genetic... It still isn't a conscious decision. Even if different environmental factors change the way you think and respond, it's subtle under the surface where you can't notice it or put your finger on it. I still believe it's something you are born with. Either way, the fact that people are in that boat before they even understand what their feeling mean doesn't help the argument of conscious decision.

Nov 5 2010 6:05PM

0 0

Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642

Karma: 14,642

Posts: 11249

Crazy Fool

exactly, im always confused when the argument even concerns itself with whether it's nature or nurture. even if it's nurture, what does that change about the debate? does anyone really think someone would voluntarily choose to get ripped on all the time? how does that change the discourse on what is right/wrong?

Nov 5 2010 6:07PM

0 0