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8: The Mormon Proposition

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Shreddysaurus
Posts: 2120 - Karma: 59
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Oct 26 2010 1:44AM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
not looking to get on your case, but this is one of those non-committing comments... the guy specifically brought up marrying your sister. marrying relatives is illegal for a reason, end of story. totally different than being gay
Oct 28 2010 9:27AM
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123ski
Posts: 7374 - Karma: 1,415
I don't disagree with you, but you haven't allowed those that do to fully argue their position.
Oct 28 2010 9:29AM
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123ski
Posts: 7374 - Karma: 1,415
Your arguments against the slippery slope mostly relate to the fact that it is a logical fallacy. I already said I agree with that, someone else tried to make another point that it can't be a slippery slope due to another reason. All I did was refute that reason. I never joined any other part of the debate in this thread. I already said that I haven't wrapped my hole head around this debate, but where I saw a flaw in reasoning I pointed it out. The only reason my argument seams to walk in a circle is because I really have only touched upon one point in this thread. I purposely did that as I don't want to argue any other points at this time. I never said that there was not validity to your reasoning that a slippery slope argument is in fact fallible. Your biggest problem is that you know what my stance is on gay marriage, and although I have not begun to argue my position on it, you wish that I would.
Oct 28 2010 9:34AM
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StevenR
Posts: 1372 - Karma: 33
I'm not sure if homosexuality is the result of genetics in such a direct way, but if it was, there is a kind of genes called recessive genes. So if they were to have the gene, it might be dormant for a generation, or the majority, but it occasionally shows up. Again, I'm not sure if its exactly gene related, and i dont know much about genetics so if i got the terminology wrong i apologize, but that should answer your question.

On another note, i dont feel like typing out a long winded response to everything in this thread, but I'll just say that on this particular subject, i fully agree with RubberSoul on 99.9% of what hes said.
Oct 28 2010 9:35AM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
There is no ground to stand on to make the argument of similarity. If it comes down to an arbitrary reason for their similarity, there is no argument. The slippery slope as pointed out before is falicious. You won't be able to use the legalization of gay marriage as a pathway to legalizing person/animal marriage, it's what we call a non-starter
Oct 28 2010 9:55AM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
Okay bro for the 5th time, the slippery slope argument does not work. When you compare gay marriage to-- and say it could set a precedent for-- marriage to animals, relatives, or inanimate objects, youre implying that it's a linear scale of things that has no threshold at which it becomes absurd. As outlined before, gay marriage adds no problems that straight marriage doesnt have. Divorce etc is huge, so the idea of the sanctity of marriage being ruined is thrown out the window, unless you argue vehemently against divorce and try to block its legality. Doubt you do that. As for the supposed linear scale- animals can't "think" like us, can't love like we can, can't own property, can't consent, etc etc etc. Inanimate objects are even lower than animals so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume I dont need to explain why you can't marry objects. Once again though, if that's not true tell me and I'll kindly explain to you why you can't marry your chair. you can't marry a relative beacuse it is well known that it can and will lead to retarded babies etc- that is truly a "wrong" thing to do as far as science goes.

I know you didn't join the debate. the first thing i said to you was that you were pulling a mr panda. you pulled out one extraneous little bit of a post and ran with it, when really that wasnt the focus of the argument at all. We've explained that, so stop acting like youre being an open-minded, fair debater when you keep dodging the fact that you haven't brought up anything besides a dumb refutation of an aside.

and YEAH, i do wish you would present an argument, as ive been asking many on your side in this thread. either join the debate or don't, and if you do present an argument. it's okay to be neutral but youre clearly not- while ostensibly questioning the validity of a non-major argument youre really just feebly arguing your opinion under a facade of being someone who's just concerned with the structure of arguments. if that was true, you might attack the actual arguments and not some aside he shouldnt have even included in his post
Oct 28 2010 10:05AM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
we've begged them to do so. give me a break
Oct 28 2010 10:06AM
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123ski
Posts: 7374 - Karma: 1,415
I have only ever agreed that the slippery slope argument doesn't work. Why do you keep pretending otherwise.

I will present an argument when I feel I am prepared to do so. All that has happened here is people like you and arabian attempting to argue points with me that I never brought up or disputed.
Oct 28 2010 11:26AM
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vailsux.com
Posts: 1769 - Karma: 440
this thread is gay.

The LDS church is still a boss.
Oct 28 2010 11:43AM
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MN_Nice
Posts: 3824 - Karma: 56
Mormans should calm down. This group of them (looks like the majority) needs to realize that other people have different views, and thats JUST FINE. Thats how this world keeps moving. Do you guys realize how boring life would be if everyone thought the same thoughts?
Oct 28 2010 11:52AM
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dbstar
Posts: 2038 - Karma: 20
No that doesn't make it invalid, see that is a logical fallacy. Just because A may lead to B does not mean that X is going to lead to Y. Most slippery slope arguments have some sense to them, moving in small steps, kind of like if someone steals from a store for a while maybe they will move up to stealing from peoples houses, then robbing people ect. This slippery slope argument here contends that if someone were to legalize gay marriage we would then see people attempting to marry animals. That is ridiculous, first of all in saying that you are equating gay marriage to some savage thing, which it isn't. Second of all, besides there being laws against bestiality, there are numerous instances in which the difference between a human and an animal have been set as a precedence, the steps towards this are so irrational it just doesn't make any sense. Of course no one supporting this argument truly thinks that marrying animals will ever be socially acceptable, it really is just propaganda for all the rednecks who never learnt to think for themselves. 
Oct 28 2010 12:00PM
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GetPitted
Posts: 3443 - Karma: 2,299
I'm Mormon. Tight huh?
Oct 28 2010 12:01PM
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MN_Nice
Posts: 3824 - Karma: 56
What're your thoughts on this?

No pressure, just interested.
Oct 28 2010 12:06PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
point proven.

love that youre "not prepared" to even offer one argument in your favor, yet you'd vote to block gay marriage from being legal. oh politics..
Oct 28 2010 12:16PM
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123ski
Posts: 7374 - Karma: 1,415
let me get this straight. You flame people in here that argue invalid points because they have not yet formulated a logical opinion about the issues at hand, yet then you flame me for not wanting to express my opinion until I have given it more thought and analysis?
Oct 28 2010 12:26PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
i flame people who blindly support oppression of other people for no good reason, then flounder and stutter when they can't even offer one good argument in their favor. youve already admitted youre against gay marriage but cant think of one good reason for it

i'm not here to hold your hand through this, i'm only in this thread because oppressive morons boil my blood. next idiot in line please
Oct 28 2010 12:30PM
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123ski
Posts: 7374 - Karma: 1,415
as I have already said, I have reasons I am just not prepared at this time to argue them. Thanks for the continual flame though.
Oct 28 2010 12:50PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
any time bro!
Oct 28 2010 12:52PM
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Arabian.
Posts: 9671 - Karma: 482
Will you just shut the fuck up already? You have said nothing in any of your posts worth posting.

And no, you don't deserve an opinion if you vote against gay marriage, because that shows you're incapable of rational thinking, and are ineligible to vote. So shut the fuck up and go back to your "law classes" (lol I'm sure. No one who argues like you stands a chance in court).


Oct 28 2010 1:42PM
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DHMTB
Posts: 31 - Karma: 10
I don't know if you, arabian, and RubberSoul are incapable of reading, stupid, or just blinded by so much rage that you can't actually understand what I think 123ski is trying to say. He agreed completely that the slipperly slope argument is an invalid argument. He actually agreed with almost every point you made. All he ever argued is that something being illegal now won't necessarily remain illegal in the future. You guys are twisting his words way too much. Stop being ass holes.
Oct 28 2010 2:11PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
go over his posts again. he refuted a tiny aside that wasnt even the main part of anyone's argument (prove me wrong) and tried to say it made the argument invalid. seeing as that argument was never even part of what i was saying, bringing that up and running with it to say it invalidates my argument is pretty dumb and irrelevant. he then admitted he is against gay marriage but cant offer a single reason for it, and instead just kept talking about the dumb little thing he originally pointed out and talking in circles

now if you take his posts at face value, great yeah im being an asshole. but it's pretty obvious what he's doing (see my first post to him). it was a feeble attempt to discredit our side without getting committed to an argument cause he doesnt have one good argument to use.

and again, i really dont care if im being an asshole to someone who's against gay marriage. boo hoo your feelings are hurt, great. see if i give a shit. i'm in this thread to tell them theyre wrong and challenge them to argue, not hold their hand through using their brain
Oct 28 2010 2:24PM
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Bumblesteeze
Posts: 3092 - Karma: 748
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This threads needs quite a few chill pills.
Oct 28 2010 2:25PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
i'll take two of those please, and a gin and tonic. those other dudes would like a brain
Oct 28 2010 2:25PM
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123ski
Posts: 7374 - Karma: 1,415
I never once tried to discredit your opinion, only that single posters viewpoint that bestiality can never become legal because it is illegal. I agree with DHMTB, it seems that in your blind rage you have tried to twist my posts into refuting all of your arguments by everyone on your side of the issue.
Oct 28 2010 2:30PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
look at your posts in order again. notice you dont say a single thing of value. now try to tell me that looks, to even the most naive person, like anything but floundering. why even enter the thread if all you had to share was some stupid bit about an extraneous part of his post? it didnt even nullify the post you were quoting

Oct 28 2010 2:47PM
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123ski
Posts: 7374 - Karma: 1,415
Perhaps it is because of both my legal background that I knew about the statutes he was referring to as well as my habit of spotting issues that are analytically fallible. The reason he used to say the slippery slope argument does not work here was invalid. Your reasons, on the other hand, are valid. I was just trying to weed out anything I didn't find especially convincing. Keep in mind I have said nothing negative about your posts and reasoning, perhaps that means I don't have much to disagree with.
Oct 28 2010 2:55PM
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fsscott
Posts: 4684 - Karma: 114
money makes the world go round
Oct 28 2010 2:57PM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
You're a fucking idiot. Being gay isn't even something you decide to do, it's genetic. Saying they shouldn't get married is like stopping a mentally challenged person from playing sports. Live and let live
Oct 28 2010 3:04PM
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MNS
Posts: 5386 - Karma: 3,241
Youre so stupid. You're argument is that you think we will let humans marry animals eventually if gays are allowed to marry each other. Maybe you have grammar skills, but you're perception of the world how it's influenced you is obviously shit.
Oct 28 2010 3:08PM
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RubberSoul
Posts: 11249 - Karma: 14,642
fair enough my b man. you have to admit it's weird that you'd keep talking about that extraneous part though, and accused me of skirting the argument when really ive been doing the opposite. it's cool though
Oct 28 2010 3:16PM
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mer-man
Posts: 1079 - Karma: 10
Lol you remind me of that guy thats taken like 1 epistemology course, read a few books and now thinks hes a bug shot philosopher. Quit trying to be clever and admit the fact you dont have the knowledge to fully understand the issue,
as others obviously do.


Oct 28 2010 3:16PM
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snowbombz
Posts: 2456 - Karma: 96
well know, lots of people don't admit to being gay because of how they think people would not accept it. But i in no way mean to suggest that being gay is passed down from father to son.


Oct 31 2010 2:33AM
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snowbombz
Posts: 2456 - Karma: 96
for al you people who are using the slippery slope argument, please don't unless it is a legitimate claim that you can back up with evidence. In which other country where gay marriage is legal is it also legal to marry a horse? We are very far behind in human rights in America along with public transit, high speed rail, healthcare, and a variety of other things that many other countries have already because people always use the slippery slope argument.

These are the countries where same sex marriage is legal: Argentina, Belgium, Canada, Iceland, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, South Africa, Spain and Sweden

In none of those countries is marrying an animal legal.
Oct 31 2010 2:44AM
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snowbombz
Posts: 2456 - Karma: 96
its also funny that on this thread only the pro gay marriage side has put forth any evidence to support their claims.
Oct 31 2010 2:45AM
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special_k10101
Posts: 1498 - Karma: 72
thank you for that. those arguments really accomplish nothing.
Oct 31 2010 6:13AM
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special_k10101
Posts: 1498 - Karma: 72
wow, i didn't even realize how long this thread was when i posted that...

i'm just curious, but can someone give an argument against gay marriage that isn't rooted somehow in religion?

why does it have to be so late? i feel like arguing.
Oct 31 2010 6:49AM
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DMA_Studios
Posts: 464 - Karma: 967
Mormons are racist bigot assholes. 
and if you are one....

STOP FUCKING COMING TO MY HOUSE AND KNOCKING ON MY DOOR WITH YOUR DUMB LITTLE BLACK TIE AND WHITE SHIRT AND THAT FUCKING LITTLE BOOK IN YOUR HAND. I'VE HAD ENOUGH.

P.S.
Fuck Joseph Smith.
Jesus never laid a foot on the U.S. and native Americans are not descendants of Jews.
Oct 31 2010 7:43AM
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StevenR
Posts: 1372 - Karma: 33
*facepalm*
Oct 31 2010 7:52AM
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DMA_Studios
Posts: 464 - Karma: 967
*palmpenis*

chill bro.

i'm joking... only most of them are.

and this thread needs to die.
Oct 31 2010 8:07AM
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little1337
Posts: 8304 - Karma: 49,143
way to steal a family guy line.


why would gays not have the same rights? fuckin mormons
Oct 31 2010 11:44AM
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Petey.
Posts: 5736 - Karma: 4,890
Read his fucking post man before you rage at the first poster to disagree with you.

Marriage is defined as the union between a man and woman/women. Now, you can argue that it may have changed in modern times, but originally it's still a man and woman.
Oct 31 2010 12:02PM
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Petey.
Posts: 5736 - Karma: 4,890
Again, married couples get those breaks because they consist of both sexes - the way it's "supposed" to be. You can't rally for gay marriage and complain that you don't get tax breaks like straight couples.

Tax breaks are given to married couples. They only recognize married couples (in this aspect) as men and women together. You're arguing to change the definition or marriage?


And to the guy who rage-posted several posts up; There is no gay gene, you can research that yourself.
Oct 31 2010 12:22PM
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Petey.
Posts: 5736 - Karma: 4,890
Opinion^

The post you just made didn't really counter anything I had said. I never said it wasn't originated by religion, because it was, and it was elaborated on and carried into modern day. Sure, some customs may have changed or more added, but one thing that was never meant to change was the fact that marriage is the union of a man and woman. I'm not sure why that's so hard to grasp.
Oct 31 2010 12:48PM
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vailsux.com
Posts: 1769 - Karma: 440
We got you on a list, we looking for you, we gonna find you. We're starting to ship them in from South America, outsourcing our labor. Straight corporate shit. Get used to it we ain't going no where.

P.S.
Whats your address again?
Oct 31 2010 2:46PM
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PowSkierCO
Posts: 760 - Karma: 11
Mormons are fucking wack ass people. I have lived in Pocatello Idaho and Idaho Falls Idaho a few years ago. How the fuck do you make boy scouts about religion?????? I had a friend that was in HS out there and the HS team would not play him because he was not mormon. Before you marry your other, you ahve to go before some dude and he tells you if yu are ready to marry or not. Then you have to both get naked in front of that dude and do something, I dunno what they do. Then if one of the familys are not mormon they can not go into the temple and watch there son get married. they are just a fucking wack ass religion. They make America look bad. They piss me off.

On the gay deal, they need to step the fuck back. Let a guy marry, who cares. The only thing that tells us it's wrong is a book written thousands of years ago. Let a guy/guy or girl/girl marry, let them be happy. If you do not like that then go pound sand.
Oct 31 2010 3:04PM
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StevenR
Posts: 1372 - Karma: 33
Sure, why the hell not? Is it really that ridiculous of a suggestion to you? Shit, you would barely even have to change it, just get rid of the "between a man and woman" part. Regardless of who they are getting married to, they are all doing it for the same reasons, why the fuck should the definition be that specific for any reason other than religious beliefs? Fuck. I'm 100% straight, and people like you piss me off to no end.
Oct 31 2010 3:11PM
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Rockhound
Posts: 3432 - Karma: 851
why the fuck not
Oct 31 2010 3:24PM
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Scrambles
Posts: 2270 - Karma: 63
they get the tax breaks to make raising a family a little easier
Oct 31 2010 3:25PM
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StevenR
Posts: 1372 - Karma: 33
And...?




















Go ahead and respond, i cant wait.
Oct 31 2010 3:27PM
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Scrambles
Posts: 2270 - Karma: 63
^gays can't reproduce=no offspring
Oct 31 2010 3:28PM
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