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Armada tell Rossignol to cease and desist.

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-Tristan-
Posts: 915 - Karma: 19
Obviously not the little guy anymore.



Sorry if this is a repost, I searched and found nothing.

Oct 25 2010 11:45PM
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Billups
Posts: 3960 - Karma: 329
You're an idiot.
Oct 31 2010 9:56AM
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Jonny7
Posts: 3309 - Karma: 76
gtfo
Oct 31 2010 10:37AM
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Sanchez
Posts: 255 - Karma: 15
If true that they have "the patent on twin tip skis", they probably don't enforce it because Olin made a twin tip in the 1970s, so a patent on a "twin tip ski" is likely invalid and worth nothing. If Line actually invented the twin tip, and others copied them, then those others should be paying Line a royalty.

Oct 31 2010 11:24AM
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Calb3rt
Posts: 6005 - Karma: 2,203
they have a patent on equal tip and tail heights not on twip tips themselves....
Oct 31 2010 2:55PM
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fouldsys
Posts: 7404 - Karma: 39
its comments like these that have led me to spend less and less time on ns lately. that being said, i enjoyed reading most of this thread and i'm anxious to see how this pans out.
Oct 31 2010 3:01PM
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SkiWest
Posts: 90 - Karma: 14
Everyone is blaming Armada for firstly having a patent and secondly for doing something about it when another company infringes on one of their designs.

Does anyone actually realise that quite a few ski companies out their have patents for their skis and designs, which puts them all into the same kettle of fish as Armada.. A BUSINESS.
No one is blaming all the other ski companies for having patents, but I'm damn sure that if any of those companies felt another company had infringed on one of their designs, they would do something about it too.. which is why they got the patent in the first place.. to protect their business and their ideas (If no ski companies wanted this to happen they wouldn't put a patent on anything).

People need to realise that as wrong as it is, skiing isn't simply a lifestyle anymore, its for making money. And that's why all you guys on NS give your money to these companies to buy their products.
Oct 31 2010 3:50PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,748
Here, here. Why patent anything, if you're not willing to enforce it if need be?

Whether Armada had/s a legitimate RIGHT to the patent in question is much harder to answer, and is very much debatable. Obviously a court, or government bureaucracy thinks they do (I don't know who grants/denies patents), but it will be interesting to get a jury's take on it when everything is presented. But, either way, Armada obviously believes that they have some sort of legal right to be compensated/reimbursed.

Whether the collective "you" or I agree is really irrelevant.

What I am fairly certain about, though, is that their implication that the CnD letter is in someway actually just a small cog in some grander plan to start a charity is unreal, and borderline offensive. If Armada wanted to start a charity or non-profit, they should have just done so out of pocket and/or by writing "letters" to companies asking for their collaboration and participation...not threatening lawsuits. Something tells me they would have been more successful with that approach...at the very least, it would sure as hell be easier to believe their acting from an altruistic place.
Oct 31 2010 5:19PM
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john.stossel
Posts: 943 - Karma: 5
oh yeah i forgot to mention, fuck armada. what they did was yes homo to the max, theres no way around it. Patenting the shap of a ski is like patenting the shape of a baseball bat. where are all the baseball bat lawsuits? im so sick of lawyers in this country, and our fucked up law system that armada is taking advantage of, so like i said fuck armada
Oct 31 2010 7:35PM
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meowshred
Posts: 388 - Karma: 28
cant we just all get along? I doubt T hall approves of this because he is a righteous man and would find the most righteous solution, i vote Rossignol pays for a Armada company trip to Jamaica
Oct 31 2010 8:00PM
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rach
Posts: 917 - Karma: 507
Honestly, I really don't think anyone will come out ahead in this mess, its just a waste of everyones time and energy. The industry needs to focus on improving as a whole. Not to say companies shouldn't feel the competition, they should benefit from the healthy pressure it creates. Companies should work off each other, work together even, to push skiing and innovate as much as possible. Though i'm sure there is another side to this story, its pretty embarrassing for Armada as a company. Patent what you like, but skiing shouldn't be about copyrights & cash. I know that legal actions are sometimes necessary, but one as pointless as this is obviously going nowhere. Armada had to know that when they started pursuing litigation...
Oct 31 2010 8:46PM
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sheyon
Posts: 7 - Karma: 10
This is all a conspiracy. Who would gain from a virtual self-distruction of the ski industry? Burton. Think about it...how else do you regain control of the park and pipe? Armada is a pawn in a much bigger plot to destroy the whole freeski industry. Mark mywe don't come together to stop this insurgency, we'll all be back on 210's hittin mogals.
Oct 31 2010 9:18PM
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BestDamnSkier
Posts: 275 - Karma: 14
Just when the thread was getting semi-intelligent someone had to suggest socializing the ski industry and thus negating any good posts on the two pages before.
Oct 31 2010 11:13PM
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Caleb.E
Posts: 3556 - Karma: 1,015

to tell you the truth i think its bull....why would armada care,sure its their design but they just ripped it off some one else and the all ripped it off off shane/volent...

shane should just sue them all, not thats some thing i would like to see....

(as i wrote that i realised how stupid i was)

rip shane

Oct 31 2010 11:25PM
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HiTz
Posts: 1467 - Karma: 11
yea dude now that the facts are straight i'd definitely like to see armada win a bs lawsuit that will kill rossi and set an awful standard for the entire ski industry. all for charity ooo yea..
/sarcasm
Oct 31 2010 11:31PM
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hemlockjibber8
Posts: 5976 - Karma: 3,534
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:MniUdTPubDcJ:www.gnolls.org/557/alpine-ski-patent-slap-fight-armada-vs-rossignol-vs-dps-vs-the-rest-of-the-skiing-world/+twin+tip+ski+patent+Line&cd=6&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca
Nov 1 2010 1:24AM
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sports*creel
Posts: 400 - Karma: 389
baseball bat patent was around awhile ago:

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/4323239/description.html

Nov 2 2010 10:13AM
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Billups
Posts: 3960 - Karma: 329
Pretty much every piece of sports equipment is patented. Why should skis be any different?
Nov 2 2010 10:39AM
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loganimlach
Posts: 5132 - Karma: 14,054
http://memagazine.asme.org/articles/2009/April/Patent_Slugfest.cfm

the lawsuits were dropped or lost because certain "inserts" weren't exactly the same. we can only hope that armada's tact of using percentages doesn't hold up, and if it ever goes to trial, that the judges take into account the absolute ludicracy of trying to enforce a patent on something other than the exact measurements of your product.
Nov 2 2010 11:13AM
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Mt_Baker_Man
Posts: 2012 - Karma: 105
haha. awesome.
Nov 3 2010 12:30AM
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Myfirstname.
Posts: 1581 - Karma: 312
Hahaha First post WIN
Nov 3 2010 10:57PM
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jabills
Posts: 511 - Karma: 57
armada will not touch atomic due to the face that atomic presses all of armadas skis for them so atomic kinda has that liberty and uses it on the blog as well as bentchetler
Nov 4 2010 8:56PM
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CTD
Posts: 6300 - Karma: 348
just gonna toss in a quick bit of input, I work with patents everyday, and there is a TON of misinformation in this thread.

like someone else said, almost everything produced has some sort of patent on it. there are 2 types, utility, which this patent is, which protects the fundamentals of how something works, and a design patent, which protects how something looks. id be willing to bet that every single ski on the market has a design patent on it, which protects the DIMENSIONS of the ski, or how it looks. In this case, there is a utility patent on how the curvature is designed in the tips, as well as the sidecut radi, and where they are blended together. It is legit. Also, despite the fact that they may have based the dimensions off a different ski, they were made by a small manufacturer who probably didnt have the funds to invest in patenting their design. that was stupid. they should have found an investor to cover the upfront costs involved. clearly the design is worth considerable money, and if they had have done that, they would be the ones offering a cease and desist. However, they did not, and Regardless of how things actually went down, Armada, being an actual business, filed for the patent, and got it. thats the bottom line there.

secondly, when you have a patent, you MUST enforce it, or it becomes null. this wasnt T hall or something making this call, it was Armadas Lawyers. will it hold up? probably not, as i think someone already mentioned, but regardless, they HAD to do this. Business is a completely different world than most of you kids are aware of. Learn t bite your tongue before you start spewing hate about something you know nothing about. it makes you sound dumb. and btw, this is a MUCH more legit case than the Scott ON3P case. that was just fucking retarded.

Nov 4 2010 9:18PM
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Roy
Posts: 1982 - Karma: 1,240
I boycott Salomon because they dropped CR like a month not even after his head injury (pretty sure while he was still in the hospital), to me a company that doesn't support its riders espesh when they actually need it and after all a guy like CR did for them can get the hell out of my sport.
Nov 4 2010 11:55PM
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crawley
Posts: 605 - Karma: 729
This is a good point. While Armada is now dead to me, they do have to enforce this patent if they wanted to protect it. They shouldn't have sent a cease and desist, obviously as we all know, but Rossignol would have a very strong case if this ever saw a courtroom if they could demonstrate that any commercially available ski that would fall under the spectrum of this patent hadn't been issued a cease and desist. I'm sure if Armada knew then what they know now they never would have sent a C&D and would have instead followed what Rossignol (and I'm sure several other manufacturers have done), Patent your technology but only use it as a defensive weapon.
Nov 5 2010 12:01AM
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Roy
Posts: 1982 - Karma: 1,240

Although and I hate to say it, anyone can file a suit for any legal reason. The good thing is, that it is up to the courts to decide who is right and I'm really hoping for Rossi on this one.

I do find it halarious that Armada knows they are going to get much deserved hate, but they try to make it okay because they are donating some of the potential winnings to charity (so someone claimed). To me this makes it clear that all Armada is only trying purposfully hurt Rossi finacially. This is completely contrary to all that core shit Armada was saying when they first came out and what the company was supposed to be built on. Also Armada's AR5 was a complete rip off of the Rossi Scratch FS.

S7 vs JJ:

S7, 185's 145-115-123. It's sandwhich design. It's core is wood/kevlar/carbon.

JJ, 185's 126-135-115-133-123. It's sandwhich/cap hybrid design. It's core is wood/kevlar/carbon stringers.

Bases on both skis is different.

Since there are only so many general shapes and ways to construct skis I don't think they're the same enough to impede on each other. But that's for the courts to decide. I hope Rossi wins and gets some well deserved cash off Armada and uses it to lower the prices on S7's.

Armada FUCK YOU

Nov 5 2010 12:46AM
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Panduh_Bayr
Posts: 264 - Karma: 33

Yup.

Nov 5 2010 1:02AM
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bigwhite.steeze
Posts: 8227 - Karma: 1,030
the two skis are near identical. compare them side by side and you'll see a pretty big resemblance between the two. i noticed last year how similar the ski's were to each other but i never thought there were patents on ski shapes. sucks for rossi, they shouldnt have jacked the design...
Nov 5 2010 1:40AM
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michael_bc
Posts: 1385 - Karma: 714
This is just not true. Rossignol's and Salomon's business ethics went down the drain several years ago. Have you ever tried replacing a broken ski with Rossignol recently? Have you ever wondered why all the sponsored pros are leaving Rossignol? And given a chance to eliminate a smaller ski company like Armada or Line, they wouldn't hesitate.

If Armada patented this technology, and Rossignol infringes on the patent, they should sue the crap out of Rossignol.

How are companies like Armada, Line and K2 going to keep affording to develop new products, if the big guys like Rossignol and Salomon can just copy paste their new ideas? Rossignol can just copy the Armada design, but use cheaper manufacturing and no after-sales service what so ever? How is Armada going to survive then?
Nov 5 2010 5:16AM
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Black-Bandanna
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 1,603
All that I have gotten out of this shitfuck of a situation and thread is that Armada is super, super sketchy. I'd have to say I'm glad I don't own a pair.
Nov 5 2010 6:13AM
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rach
Posts: 917 - Karma: 507
Honestly, i'm not too concerned a about K2 going out of business, or Line or Armada for that matter...I don't see it happening. I wouldn't say Rossignol & Salomon "copied and pasted" Armada's designs. But i'm not claiming they didn't borrow ideas, i'm pretty positive they did. If thats the crime here...Volant could sue every company in the industry. The point is, they're just stirring up trouble and being tools, nothing will come of it...
Nov 5 2010 1:30PM
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erickbrettson
Posts: 335 - Karma: 64
yay armada
rossignol can go get fucked
Nov 5 2010 1:37PM
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Scrambles
Posts: 2270 - Karma: 63
stfu and gtfo
Nov 5 2010 3:57PM
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a_pla5tic_bag
Posts: 9215 - Karma: 5,398
haha. this guys right, it's the only answer!
Nov 5 2010 4:06PM
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Boggs
Posts: 1039 - Karma: 208
Agreed, I love armada and I have had 2 pairs of their skis. They are awesome, straight up. And they have always been awesome with me.
Nov 5 2010 4:14PM
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-Tristan-
Posts: 915 - Karma: 19
Classic example of someone who has not done their homework.
Nov 5 2010 7:26PM
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Caleb.E
Posts: 3556 - Karma: 1,015
this and k2 was the first legit twin tip......olin did create one but it was still more of a shaped ski
Nov 5 2010 8:36PM
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crawley
Posts: 605 - Karma: 729
k2 made a twin before salomon?
Nov 5 2010 8:55PM
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TLTQ
Posts: 525 - Karma: 29
Wow. What fuckin pricks. Everyone should just boy-cot Armadda...like common.
Nov 6 2010 1:40AM
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-Tristan-
Posts: 915 - Karma: 19
Olin Mark IV was a straight ski...
Nov 8 2010 1:02AM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
like this guy?
Nov 8 2010 1:16AM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
Click for larger image
Nov 8 2010 1:17AM
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snomaster
Posts: 3344 - Karma: 5,748
haha. the Mark IV was not a shape ski. It was the 1970's. Do you know when shape skis hit the mainstream (beyond WC racing, which I hear had some shape for years)?
also, that K2 poacher or whatever was more like a rounded off flat tail than a twin tip. it was not legit.
Nov 8 2010 4:36PM
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Literature
Posts: 13673 - Karma: 3,085
I want an update.
Jan 14 2011 1:46PM
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Myfirstname.
Posts: 1581 - Karma: 312
This please^
Jan 16 2011 12:48AM
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saucybiscuits
Posts: 2554 - Karma: 173
rossi and armada are the only two kids of skis i own.......... im so comflicted!
Jan 16 2011 1:40AM
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ISellMeth
Posts: 1440 - Karma: 673
Same
Jan 16 2011 2:35AM
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justinstlaurent
Posts: 654 - Karma: 27
threads for reading
Jan 16 2011 12:20PM
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crab_pretzel
Posts: 3919 - Karma: 622
but still dont lotsa companies make symettrical tip and tail skis with identical fronts and back?
Jan 16 2011 12:29PM
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