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What should a skier's role be in editing a movie?

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pikupfulofsnow
Posts: 2077 - Karma: 9,696
Open the flood gates.....
Oct 17 2010 6:19AM
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AlexMartini
Posts: 2989 - Karma: 1,905
movies should be made for the riders, by the riders -stept
Oct 18 2010 3:23PM
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Mr_pretzel
Posts: 4616 - Karma: 1,289
So if he has no say and the editor makes him look like real hood, but thats not the image he is going for at all he doesn't get a say?

You have posted alot of stupid shit today dude.
Oct 18 2010 3:24PM
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AlexMartini
Posts: 2989 - Karma: 1,905
wrong, do some research
Oct 18 2010 3:26PM
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jeeesus
Posts: 253 - Karma: 6
No respectable editor will make a "hood" edit, unless they are a skier.

you do realize that if 99% of ski movies were shown at film festivals, they would fail miserably, right? fancy that...
Oct 18 2010 3:36PM
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Mr_pretzel
Posts: 4616 - Karma: 1,289
That was just an example.

Of course they would fail. They are ski movies, no one that doesn't have a general interest in skiing would like to watch a ski movie.
Oct 18 2010 3:50PM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,089
and you realize the 1% that would succeed at a film festival fail miserably at being entertaining ski movies?

I wonder how they would fare at an animation festival? Or maybe a festival for commercial advertising? How would they stack up at a 4h competition? fancy it for awhile
Oct 18 2010 4:01PM
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jeeesus
Posts: 253 - Karma: 6
people will be interested in watching ski movies if they were actually made well. You could show Thats It, That's All at a film fest and it would do great...
Oct 18 2010 4:06PM
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matthasaurusrex
Posts: 5160 - Karma: 185
why are you comparing ski movies to short films shown at a film festival?

I dont get why there is so much discussion on this, its not like skiing is the first sport to make movies. Skiers should want to be involved with their part, because they put all the work into it. Someone who puts out a good part already knows what song and generally how its going to go together.
Oct 18 2010 4:25PM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
yeahh.. as much as I like stept...

Thats why "for the riders by the riders" (aka cliche FUBU) videos only ever aspire to a certain level. Because they don't know shit about real filming. Not just pointing a camera at a kid while he skis and cutting it over music. Sorry, but it's true.

And "Doing some research" is going to help prove your point how? Any and every source tells me that skiers should ski, filmers should film, editors should edit, directors should direct, actors act, etc. can you imagine a movie made completely "by the actors, for the actors"? I am sure it would be awesome....
Oct 18 2010 4:35PM
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AlexMartini
Posts: 2989 - Karma: 1,905
actually movies directed by the actors tend to be my favorite, they are usually comedies and mostly improv and fucking hilarious, and as for ski movies, by research i meant look up which movies were worked on by the riders... 1242 for example was very highly influenced by the riders, and wicked, and those are probably the best movies ever, other movies like revolver had no rider influence and didn't work out at all, so like i said, do some research
Oct 18 2010 4:56PM
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jeeesus
Posts: 253 - Karma: 6
Because real films are actually good. Ski movies are just stunts or porn or whatever you want to call it. 99% of the time they're filmed/edited with no artistic theme whatsoever. It's skate videos without the fisheyes.

I guess your kind will simply never understand.
Oct 18 2010 5:02PM
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tride
Posts: 1038 - Karma: 26
Not true, JP did the majority of editing on his own segment for Revolver, he spent weeks in Whistler this summer editing.

How's that for research? Hahahahaha, just kidding, but seriously.
Oct 18 2010 5:16PM
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Willard
Posts: 5117 - Karma: 429
JP has also been editing his own segments for years
Oct 18 2010 5:35PM
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Klick_2_klaim
Posts: 3396 - Karma: 25
clint eastwood comes to mind. but whatever.
Oct 18 2010 6:09PM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,089
so does Whip It, another motion picture triumph directed by an actor
Oct 18 2010 7:10PM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
Comedic timing is an entirely different can of worms. You think any of the great comedians know shit about actually filming, editing, and actually color correcting, and doing REAL audio?

No. Thats why other people do it. Actors "directing" is actually a pretty gray area anyway. Most of them have teams of people to help them when they don't know what the fuck is going on.

And cool you listed 2 movies? Both are admittedly classics, but come on dude... Rider influenced is NOT "for the riders, by the riders" They didn't film any of their own shit, or edit it? (Neil???) Not to mention the fact that so many other great ski movies have been created.

Not to mention the years of devotion it takes to truly become great at cinematography and post production editing and audio. I really do like STEPT, and I am not dissing, but be real... look at any REAL quality movie production, and compare that to anything you guys have ever created. Or ANYONE in the skiing world has created. It's apples and oranges, entirely different levels.
Oct 18 2010 7:13PM
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Klick_2_klaim
Posts: 3396 - Karma: 25
exactly right? Finally someone agrees with me on NS! wahoo!
Oct 18 2010 9:18PM
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MADDECENT
Posts: 5579 - Karma: 951
This. Not more, not less.
Oct 18 2010 9:18PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
This. The process of filmmaking has a reciprocal relationship between artistic capacity and technological ability; two traits almost every professional skier has absolutely no experience with. Failure to utilize both yields a stale product.

A lot of unnamed ski film companies already fail to make a good product; what makes you think substituting the editor with an athlete who is untrained in the art of editing/design is going to improve the product, if not damage it?

It's bullshit like this that is why action sports films are such garbage compared to everything else.
Oct 18 2010 10:19PM
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matthasaurusrex
Posts: 5160 - Karma: 185
we are talking about skiers influence in the editing of ski movies. Short films and ski movies are a complete different genre.

Your comparing ski videos to skate videos "without the fisheye" i dont even wanna waste my time going into that...

Filmed/edited with no artistic theme? go watch idea or wski106 or teddy bear crisis and get a clue. And just so you know there are horrible "real films" out there also.

"The more influence a skier has on his segment, the worse it will be."

I cant believe how ignorant you are but then i realize i'm posting on newschoolers.com so i guess it makes sense.

Do enlighten me on what my kind is. get fucked



Oct 18 2010 10:21PM
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jeeesus
Posts: 253 - Karma: 6
Just because ski movies are different doesn't mean they have to suck. Some of the best ski films I've seen have been made by college kids with zero budget. And wooop de doo, you named the few good ski movies that exist (they are amazing actually). What about the other 98% of ski movies? No doubt the riding is insane, but the filmmaking makes it so godawful to watch.

your "type" is the kind of person who is too concerned with the stunts on the screen to assess the filmmaking in an unbiased manner. awesome tricks look bad when they're presented poorly. Filming/editing is just as important as the content, if not more.
Oct 18 2010 10:42PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
You're right; they are. But there is also a larger gap in quality than there should be. Michel Gondry could make a better ski film than anyone else in the game with the same budget, time and riders. And he is far from the Hollywood type.
Oct 18 2010 10:47PM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,089
and everyone would have big hands, gondry uses the same concepts over and over again, might fit in well with the genre actually...
Oct 18 2010 11:49PM
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b-ladd
Posts: 2300 - Karma: 48

What are you, a fucking film student? Pull that stick out of your ass, if you don't like watching ski movies because you think the editing is awful, get bent.

Oct 19 2010 12:11AM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
!
Oct 19 2010 12:16AM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
in segments, they should have a hand in how they want to be portrayed + input some of their own music, editor obviously has last hand, but riders should definately input some of their songs and editors should make a pick out of it....

in short edits, with a lot of different riders i think the editors are 100% free to do what they want....
Oct 19 2010 6:08AM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,748
Here's what 9 out of 10 skiers are capable of doing in regards to filming/editing input:

"You know that one shot in that one ski movie where blahblahblah....let's do that".

A skier and/or fan of ski flicks will draw on what they've already seen in the context of a ski movie, and best case scenario, will be able to recreate that in their own project. A gifted/talented filmmaker will draw on other inspirations and will most likely be adept at translating an idea for a shot into an actual shot. That takes practice, and for the most part, if you're good enough to be in front of the camera, you've invested your time in skiing and not filmmaking. (If someone says, "What about Pollard and Clarke, no0bz?!", they're exceptions, not rules.)

The difference between a skier with a camera, editing software, a logo, and a fanbase and a filmer/editor is huge.

It's like anything...a filmer is "good" for two reasons: 1.) He probably has some natural aptitude for it. and 2.) He spends a ridiculous amount of time behind a lens and he knows how a particular shot/angle will look on a monitor ,and more, he knows how that angle/shot will fit with the other angles/shots he already has or plans to get.

Run on sentences aside, it's arrogant and ridiculous to think that being good at skiing equates to being good at making ski movies.

Can collaboration between an editor and a rider be a good thing? Yes, of course it can, but in the overwhelming majority of cases, better to let the filmer/editor do their thing. Unless of course you want filmers collabing with skiers on the skiing. I can totally see Drew Lederer helping Simon stomp a superman dub...
Oct 19 2010 10:46AM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Not really. I'd say he has a consistent style in his cinematography and surrealist approach, but that's about it. Anybody can push a dolly or crane and add generic narration. People like Gondry and Ostness can have style without all the empty gadgets. Hell, watch a film by Tarsem and notice how a stationary tripod shot far exceeds most of the shit you see in Hollywood. This gap in quality only exists because you let it exist.
Oct 19 2010 12:08PM
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AlexMartini
Posts: 2989 - Karma: 1,905
do any of you make ski movies and work on them with riders ever? how can you say skiers have no idea how to make a good movie when you've never tried it? this is ridiculous, riders segments represent the sport, life and lifestyle of the rider, if the rider doesnt get to put the same music they listened to will skiing on film in the film, and the style of editing doesnt fit the style of riding, its not going to look right, please go make your own movie and you'll get it
Oct 19 2010 1:41PM
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AlexMartini
Posts: 2989 - Karma: 1,905
your on crack, almost every respectable editor in skiing has made a hood edit at one time or another, from berman, to iberg, to johnny D, look around and name me one company thats never made a hood edit/segment/bonus feature
Oct 19 2010 1:48PM
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AlexMartini
Posts: 2989 - Karma: 1,905
i figured out how to say what i meant- most pro skiers are pro's because they grew up super stoked on ski movies (from stump to berman to pbp, even warren miller), combine that with talent and competition and you've got wallisch, nick martini, henrik, t-hall, etc. So the biggest ski movie fans in the world are the pro's, who later wind up in the movies, so who is a better judge of what a good segment is than the people who dedicated their whole lives to ski movies on the watching and making sides? i know a lot of skiers and a lot of film makers, and i know for a fact that every pro skier has watched more ski movies more times than any pro filmer or editor, so as long as a pro-skier has half a brain (3/4 of them do) they know what makes a legit seg, and they should have just as much say in how their seg turns out as the editor does
Oct 19 2010 2:29PM
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AlexMartini
Posts: 2989 - Karma: 1,905
likin it (cuz i dont have fb but i love the like button)
Oct 19 2010 2:31PM
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Mr.Huck
Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,896
In my case, the footage that was shot by Warren Miller of my skiing in "50" was used specifically to protect the editing room floor from scratches and scuffs. 
Oct 19 2010 2:31PM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
Your argument holds no water, what so ever. it might if you actually had valid points other than "you guys don't know shit , I make STEPT movies and that makes me an expert." HA, you are far from an authoritative figure on the topic, sorry.

You cut ski clips and lay them over music. End of story. Thats why in your situation riders have equally good input as you do, because you don't make super high quality films, and neither do they. You make *enjoyable* films for kids who like to ski park. Big difference.

Oct 19 2010 2:31PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 37386 - Karma: 120,063
I think all the shots should be chosen by the rider, And I believe the rider should choose a song that they like and what they think suits their part the best.
Oct 19 2010 2:32PM
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AlexMartini
Posts: 2989 - Karma: 1,905
i like your photos, but you dont cut clips and lay them over music, so you just don't get it, and i never claimed to be an expert, nor did i say stept makes good movies, people seem to like road to nowhere which i directed, but aside from that, i have met quite a few other people who make movies, are in movies, and watch movies, and when someone doesnt let the riders choose their song and style, i dont think it turns out very good
Oct 19 2010 2:39PM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
fair enough. Cheers
Oct 19 2010 2:42PM
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AlexMartini
Posts: 2989 - Karma: 1,905
haha, took me long enough to get that one point across, eh?
Oct 19 2010 2:44PM
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Static
Posts: 8553 - Karma: 4,089
haha cheers, pip pip cherrio!
Oct 19 2010 2:45PM
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pikupfulofsnow
Posts: 2077 - Karma: 9,696
Alex, you are wrong.
I've watched more snow movies than you and that is a fact. I have VHS from Mackdawg, do you? I went to Blizzard Of Ahhs in the theatre and shook Warren Millers hand, did you? I had respect, but now, not so sure.
Oct 19 2010 2:57PM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
Oh I understand what you have been saying.

I agree that the rider should be able to suggest a song or see the part before it's released, but the editor should do what THEY want. Whether that has anything at all to do with the athletes opinion should be irrelevant. It's not up to the rider "for the rider by the rider" etc. Not edited by the riders either. Or filmed for that matter.

As for the rest of it, I don't really agree. I can let you voice your opinion that you think it doesn't come out as good. Fair enough. I just don't really care anymore.

The big thing is having an editor that actually knows enough so that some shit for brains skier (3/4 of them are) thinks that their opinion means anything compared to someone who has devoted as much or more time into their own trade/skill set.
Oct 19 2010 3:01PM
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titsLOL
Posts: 7485 - Karma: 396
I think that a video should be a piece of art that is made by the film maker from beginning to end, so unless the skiers are also passionate about making movies and can collaborate well with the film maker they will just be taking away from the quality of the movie. With that said, most ski movies made lack any kind of art or creativity and are simply filmed in whatever kind of way seems good when they're on the hill then the clips are put together and color corrected.

I think the difference here is between a "ski porn" type movie that does just represent the skiing and lifestyle of the riders and can be filmed and edited by just about anyone, versus a proper ski "film" that is actually a well made movie that someone who doesn't ski, but is into film, could appreciate.

With how good everyone is at skiing these days you could just cut up and post raw footage and it would be fun to watch so I don't really care how people go about it, but it's definitely fun to watch a "real" edit.
Oct 19 2010 3:07PM
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Mr_pretzel
Posts: 4616 - Karma: 1,289
Can this thread end now?

Thanks.
Oct 19 2010 3:26PM
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matthasaurusrex
Posts: 5160 - Karma: 185
you dont even know me
Oct 19 2010 3:50PM
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jeeesus
Posts: 253 - Karma: 6
im ur godammed father
Oct 19 2010 10:41PM
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theCROW
Posts: 8 - Karma: 10
EVERYONE OF YOU IS RIGHT AND WRONG. IT'S ALL BASED ON OPINION.

How many people outside of skiing do you think would watch ski movies if the shots were always as SLANDYPOUT suggests they should be, had more commentary and voice overs, or told a story? Sorry, but not that many, maybe some film students, and film critics, but generally any normal person doesn't give a fuck about Freeskiing, no matter how different movies were than they are now, and how much more artistic they are.

And Slandypoo, if you know so much about making full-length ski movies that aren't ski porn, why don't you make one? And I'm not talking about that 20 minute short movie you made with all the black spot cuts in it... Make a movie the way you say you want to (it'd be cool, i'd be pumped to see something different too), but stop talking from your high chair about how knowledgeable you are as a film maker when you didn't even finish the movie that you made that tight trailer for. That set aside, I still do think you capture skiing nicely.


Oct 20 2010 12:04AM
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PacificRimJob
Posts: 24725 - Karma: 29,944
God damn this thread is stupid...

edit it the way you freaking want it man... film is all expression. its freaking ART.

Just enjoy it... stop being weird about it guys.
Oct 20 2010 12:49AM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
That is the pretty much the opposite of what I have been saying.

Also, last I checked I had over 80 short videos completed. Instead of judging me based on a video I made when I was 13, believe me when I say I know what I'm talking about :)
Oct 20 2010 11:31AM
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cooper.fry
Posts: 2229 - Karma: 34
Certain shots on a run (flow left to right, etc.), possibly the song, make it look mad fresh.
Oct 20 2010 11:50AM
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OoobeFu_k
Posts: 327 - Karma: 49
this is all prime.... but the last paragraph is what every one needs read.
Oct 20 2010 12:24PM
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