About religion

No but it does give the religious folks much much better ammo to do so with. Hell sometimes it even depresses the scientists to no end over the deathstorm they have unwittingly created.

Religious arguments anywhere have the same results. Its not just NS.

obviously you do not know what you are talking about here. does the qur'an enforce and promote atrocities such as destroying buildings and killing thousands?

what this guy said. especially the last paragraph.

ctrl C + ctrl V ftw:

ANNOUNCE PAINFUL PUNISHMENT TO THOSE WHO DISBELIEVE (9:3)

O Prophet! urge the believers to war; if there are twenty patient ones of you they shall overcome two hundred... (8:65)

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve (8:55)

"Fight those who do not believe in Allah...And the Jews say Ezra is the son of God;  and the Christians say Christ is the son of God; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; Allah's curse be on them; how they are turned away!" (Koran 9:29-30) 

And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah (8:39)

When the sacred months have passed away, THEN SLAY THE IDOLATERS WHEREVER YOU FIND THEM, AND TAKE THEM CAPTIVES AND BESIEGE THEM AND LIE IN WAIT FOR THEM IN EVERY AMBUSH, then if they repent and keep up prayer [become believers] and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them (9:5)

FIGHT THEM: ALLAH WILL PUNISH THEM BY YOUR HANDS AND BRING THEM TO DISGRACE, AND ASSIST YOU AGAINST THEM. (9:14)

O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination. (9:73)

O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil). (9:123)



etc. etc. etc. Plenty more where that came from. Whilst it obviously doesn't say "fly planes into buildings" it clearly promotes the idea that everyone who is not Islamic is evil and should be persecuted.

i see...

I imagine a majority of muslims don't take all of the Qu'ran literally... although there are probably less moderate muslims than there are moderate christians etc. (By moderate i mean don't hate science, believe in evolution, aren't anti gay-marriage etc.)

Christianity and Islam are the same religion.

This is quite clearly false.

Christianity (from the Greek word Xριστός, Khristos, "Christ", literally "anointed one") is a monotheistic religion[1] based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth as presented in the New Testament.[2] Christianity comprises three major branches: Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy (which parted ways with Catholicism in 1054 A.D.) and Protestantism (which came into existence during the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century).[3] Protestantism is further divided into smaller groups called denominations.

Christians believe Jesus is the son of God, God having become human and the savior of humanity. Christians, therefore, commonly refer to Jesus as Christ or Messiah.[4]



Islam(Arabic: الإسلام‎ al-’islām, pronounced [ʔislæːm] ( listen)[note 1]) is the monotheistic religion articulated by the Qur’an, a text considered by its adherents to be the verbatim word of God (Arabic: الله‎, Allāh), and by the Prophet of Islam Muhammad's teachings and normative example (which is called the Sunnah in Arabic, and demonstrated in collections of Hadith). Islam literally means "submission (to God)."[1] Muslim, the word for an adherent of Islam, is the active participle of the same verb of which Islām is the infinitive (see Islam (term)).[2][3]

Muslims believe that God is one and incomparable and that the purpose of life is to worship God.[4] They regard their religion as the completed and universal version of a primordial, monotheistic faith revealed at many times and places before, including, notably, to the prophets Abraham, Moses and Jesus. Islamic tradition holds that previous messages and revelations have been changed and distorted over time.[5] Religious practices include the Five Pillars of Islam, which are five obligatory acts of worship.[6] Islamic law (Arabic: شريعة Šarīʿah) touches on virtually every aspect of life and society, encompassing everything from banking and warfare to welfare and the environment.[7]

I almost want to play devils advocate here, because if you take a more metaphorical interpretation of this statement, there are striking similarities in these (and the vast majority) of belief structures.

Ya, I used to believe this. Then I read the Koran, still looking for the tolerance version.

The biggest problem with religion at least for me is the mental block of thinking you "know". Once you "know" for the most part your mind is closed to any new ideas. Most people these days never question their beliefs, It really is a huge problem. Questioning what you believe and what you think you "know" really isn't a bad thing. If you end up proving what you believed was true, it is that much more real than you and you have a solid understanding of other peoples points and a factual basis to debate them. Instead of people just freaking out when somebody starts to burst their bubble, they actually have a little bit of knowledge to argue their point. No days arguing is all about getting loud. If you freak out and yell louder it obviously proves you were right. People bring in wayyyyyy to much emotion. You can't even have an intelligent discussion with most people. You should be able to have a nice back and forth convo with people even if their beliefs are the complete opposite of your own. I think it's fun honestly, see what they think and their reasoning behind it and argue your own. Then you can get some idea of where they are coming from maybe research the points they brought up and get a solid understanding of their views right or wrong.

A big part of religion has been a sort of censorship and closed mindedness. You are supposed to keep out everything from any source that isn't withing what you believe. that whole idea is pretty fucked up. And I know that many churches teach that way because I've been to a ton of churches with my parents. I guess it all comes down to the whole "ignorance is bliss" thing. I guess if you never know anything outside of your bubble it can be, but why wouldn't you want to find out as much as you can. I just don't get it.

Yeah I'm still looking for the tolerance version of the Bible.

How many times have you had a christian try and convert you?

As far as I'm concerned they both worship the same God and they both believe in Jesus and other than that they are just being assholes and bombing each other over the details. Motherfuckers need to puff some hashish and relax. Thats what Jesus would do. Any Christians who hate Muslims are bad Christians and vice versa.

orly?

The Qu'ran is certainly not a tolerant book, but it is full of beautiful poetry, and Islam DOES maintain that Jesus' tolerance should be followed. Take it from this guy, I lived in Saudi Arabia for 5 years and the UAE on and off now with my parents - we had an Imam at school who taught us about Islam, and he was absolutely brilliant. Like a muslim Buddha. Obviously I'm not muslim, nor do I condone what it says in the Qu'ran, I'm just saying that very few teachers of Islam teach the intolerance parts of the Qu'ran. The ones that do fuck it up in ways so wrong that we get 9/11, even though the Qu'ran explicitly states 70 some odd times that suicide is wrong and will put you in hell.

Christian conversion attempts = a handful, 5-10. Hundreds if you count crazy street people.

yarly

hahaha. I agree tho. Keep your shit to yourself. If I want to know about jesus ill ask.

at least you dont have mormon missionaries bombarding you.

This thread just got

I had a teacher pass away last week that was the coolest teacher EVAR!!! He was also a very open atheist he said he chose that route not to make decisions based on what he wanted rather his religion but he chose that route to be able to understand the world around him, as he taught philosophy. It made him able to teach about religion to his class from a non-biased point of view where you can respect all religions based on what they have to offer (He argued to anyone that said he was a sinner by saying "Could you imagine a Priest teaching this class? You wouldn't learn a damn thing about all the other religions, it traps you in a bubble"). Religion is basically a big organized set of rules whether it be Christianity or Muslim, they are basically the same, and before you say Muslims are terrorists, Christians are the same they caused the crusades killing people that weren't christian (terrorism). You can live by good morals or by what religion says is right but in the end its all the same.

i will agree with the second half of your first paragraph 100%. if two educated respectful people want to have a real debate about religion, it can be absolutely wonderful. and there are many intelligent and informed people who have the knowledge to make a solid argument defending their faith.

i would interprete this as you are christian and so its maybe the first time i have to agree with such a post.

EDUCATED folks, EDUCATED is the word. a christian who explores other religions and comes back is a good one. a christian who wants to learn science, finds flaws (i am not talking about evolution, but for example, hawking & co have no proven theory [if you can prove it at all] about how our universe came into existence) and comes back is a good one.

imo, as long as the theory of gravity of quantums is not formulated, religion has a pretty legit right of existence.


but i HATE, yes, i HATE blind, dumb sheeps that just are to closeminded to understand any bigger picture and stay within their own little world and try to push it on others. who use a 2000 yr old book as it was gods word, despite translation errors, contradictions and the subjective selection process. who think that the earth is the best planet in the universe, and humanity the only/best species around, just because they want to be something special, out of a weird kind of narcissm. who think its easier to believe that god created everything like it is now, while burying fossils to fool us and whatever.


and yes, i am more on the atheist side (although "catholic"), but i DID MY RESEARCH, i actually wrote a 76-page paper (15 needed) about the meaning of life for my high school diploma.



BOTTOM LINE: if you look various stuff up, try to educate yourself, i have no problem arguing with you regardless of what you believe. but if you only recall what you heard somewhere, please gtfo. yes, its intolerant, but people like that are also intolerant to humanity and thus to me.

nothing wrong with that.

Isn't parts of the poppy plant still in pain killers and shit?

Exactly.

I'm all for religious debate. I think debating religion, in an educated and respectful manner, can be very rewarding. This is how I've come to form my beliefs on. Trying to shove your opinion down everyone's throats and telling them they're wrong and stupid is ridiculous COUGHgnartronCOUGH.

Now i have no problem having people come up to me and ask me about my religion and try to convert me. I understand that I don't know everything and by listening to other people I may have a better understanding about things. But when people get violent, or when people don't know when to stop, THAT'S when I have a problem with religion.

For me, religion is something that I think science will never be able to prove or disprove. Now, maybe science may disprove that certain beliefs in a religion is untrue (ex: Noah's arc for instance) but will never disprove or prove that a higher being exists. To me, it only makes sense that someone higher created us. Our minds aren't smart enough to comprehend the truth. And since that's it, I choose to believe in a higher being.

So yeah Gnartron. You can say I believe in a "Magical wizard who created us out of nothing." And you can fuck off if you give people shit for believing in something higher than themselves. Its not an easy thing to let go and believe in something that our small human minds can't really understand. I don't know if you're just doing it for attention or are just trolling, but every religion thread on this forum is (usually) responded to by your ignorance and closed-mindedness. I'm not asking you stop believing in what you believe, but grow some balls and a brain and have some tolerance for once so these religion threads can actually have an intelligent discussion.

Dumb questions for those that know more about religion. Aren't the "Big Three" (Judaism, Islam, and Christianity) all essentially worshiping the same God yet have different prophets? (Moses for the Jews, Muhammad for the Muslims, and Jesus for the Christians)