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Need skis for bumps&powder - mutually exclusive?

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skithebert
Posts: 2163 - Karma: 16
I'll get people's opinion on this question. Is there a ski that can do both well? Unfortunately I no longer live in Colorado so my skiing days per season have dwindled into the single digits. This means I don't get to ski much anymore and can only buy ONE pair of skis.

When the snow is fresh, I'm in the trees or wherever else I can find fresh tracks. My last trip to Utah I destroyed my Troublemakers and rented powder skis for a day. This was an eye opening experience and realized how incredibly inadequate my TMs were in powder. While that experience convinced me I never want to ride a skinny ski in powder again, unfortunately we all know mother nature is a fickle mistress (especially in CO) . When the snow isn't fresh (and its usually not), I like skiing bumps. Is it possible to have a fat ski that floats like a powder ski but still is agile and quick turning like a bump ski? I want two opposite ideas in one ski. Has ski technology advanced this far or am I doomed to choose one over the other.
Aug 7 2010 5:00PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Get something with huge rocker and at least 120 underfoot. Slay it in powder, and just point it and bounce over the moguls. Boom, problem solved.
Aug 7 2010 5:15PM
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RedCloud
Posts: 125 - Karma: 21
Yes your request is a little mutually exclusive. I've found anything much over 100+ waist gets pretty cumbersome in the bumps. For example I've had CRJs, and S7s in the bumps and they are pretty miserable. It is possible, just not much fun, and a constant battle to stay out of the back seat.

The most powder oriented type ski I have had fun in the bumps with is the s3 (98 waist, small tip and tail rocker). This is not the ultimate powder ski by any means, but can slay the powder still if you are a good skier. You are giving up a little in both "venues" if you want a ski that does both. Thus my recommendation would be to find a ski that is in the 105 - 90 waist area and has a small rocker/early rise. Go bigger waist if you want more towards powder, less waist if you want more toward bumps)

I'll let others recommend a specific ski, but skis in the category I just mentioned (in no particular order):
Rossi s3
On3p jeronimo
line Blend (100 waist)
k2 revival
k2 kung fugas (102 waist)
4frnt VCT Turbos (I think they are just calling them turbos this year) (100-108 waist)
Moment Rocker
Faction Alias (102 waist)
Liberty Helix (105 waist)

Non rockered:
Moment Tahoe
Line Prophet 90/100
4FRNT MSP
Armada ARV

The smaller waist rockered park skis like the Armada alpha 2 may an option. I just can't speak for how they ski bumps or powder

All the skis above will not ski powder like a JJ, hellbent, EHP, s7, etc... and they will not rip bumps like a Hart F17.. but will do both reasonably.

I'm assuming you are a good bump skier that skis "the zipper line", F' all this advice if this is not true.
Aug 7 2010 6:20PM
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Blake.P
Posts: 9894 - Karma: 3,585
On3p Caylors? That seems a little biased
Aug 7 2010 7:48PM
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Blake.P
Posts: 9894 - Karma: 3,585
Sorry for the dub post but take a look at last years obsethed. A few of my friends have them and they slay in powder and are good in crud and bumps. Plus they are a year old so they will be a little cheaper
Aug 7 2010 7:51PM
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skithebert
Posts: 2163 - Karma: 16
thanks for the useful response. I rode the S7s and they were a blast in powder but I wouldn't want to go anywhere near the bumps with them.

you recommend getting a smaller waisted rockered ski. this seems like a good idea but I'm new to idea of rockered skis. is there any disadvantages to a rockered ski in the bumps? i'm assuming they don't edge as well, but edging isn't really an issue for mogul skiing.

thinking about the mechanics of it, it seems like I should sacrifice on the width to maintain the agility I'm looking for, but keep the rockers. That should keep the tips from diving in powder and shouldn't affect bump skiing a whole lot since you don't really edge in the bumps.
Aug 9 2010 11:09AM
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RedCloud
Posts: 125 - Karma: 21
I recommend a small rocker because it helps in the powder but isn't a huge hindrance, just as you have surmised. A rockered ski in the bumps just feels like you have some ski (weight) up front that isn't really useful. What is nice is it helps the ski, ski a little shorter on hardpack. A huge rocker is just cumbersome to me. For the record you do edge in the bumps. Yes it is mostly rebound and absorption, but there is a lightning fast edge in there. Notice how the big time comp skiers get face shots while ripping, this is the super quick edge that happens around the time of absorption. It is technically a quick carve, but not a normal carve, because it is still in the "stacked" position.
Aug 9 2010 12:11PM
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skithebert
Posts: 2163 - Karma: 16
agreed, it's a quick edge. i guess i meant you don't edge in a carving sense. But it's not something that requires a lot of grip so I don't really see a downside having a rockered ski that doesn't edge as well.

which contributes more to an awesome powder ski, the width or the rocker? I'm sort of looking at this as I look at mountain bikes. For a long time you only had big heavy slack DH bikes and then little light steep XC bikes. Now as geometry has evolved you can get "AM" bikes that have slack DH-like angles that still climb as well as XC bikes. Do rockers let a skinnier ski behave like a fatter one in powder?
Aug 9 2010 12:33PM
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Aaaron.
Posts: 11817 - Karma: 903
ninthward first bloods? heftier than the average park ski at 123/91/116
Aug 9 2010 12:52PM
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RedCloud
Posts: 125 - Karma: 21
I think your mountain bike analogy is pretty good. On the other hand when I ski a 98 waist rocker ski, don't say to myself wow that felt like a 115 waist ski in the powder... A rocker ski allows me to be in an aggressive stance in the powder which feels more normal. More explanation: in the days of traditional camber and even straight skis you had ski powder a little different then hard park. On hard pack and bumps, you are driving your shins into the front of the boot, I even feel like my chin is over the tips. When in the powder you needed to have a more neutral stance so you didn't bury the tips (not backseat though). The rocker allows me to be in more aggressive stance. I think this is why it is easier for some eastern skiers to grab a big rocker and ski western powder much easier...
My point is that a rocker is going to help in the powder, making it feel like a wider waist ski isn't exactly right, but isn't too far off.
Aug 9 2010 12:55PM
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skithebert
Posts: 2163 - Karma: 16
well an all mountain bike doesn't exactly feel like a DH bike. But these days, they do everything very well. I think there will always be concessions made somewhere. But I guess with bicycles there's just a lot more that can be engineered and tweaked. Skis are limited by their simplicity.

Totally agree on the aggressive stance in powder. That's what I absolutely loved about the S7's I rode. It finally felt like I could ski normally in deep powder, like I would on hardpack. I could get my weight forward and ski aggressively instead of leaning back and fighting my skis to keep them above the snow. It was just so much more relaxing and fun. Sounds like a skinnier rocker ski will at least have some of those characteristics.
Aug 9 2010 4:41PM
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skithebert
Posts: 2163 - Karma: 16
really like the '10 moment rockers but i'm assuming they are sold out forever. looks like the K2 revivals might be what i'm looking for. Rockered with a 90mm waist and badass graphics. Is there a 2010 equivialent to the revivals?
Aug 9 2010 10:44PM
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austinmetsch
Posts: 525 - Karma: 17
line elizabeth
Aug 9 2010 10:48PM
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blackoutbill
Posts: 2918 - Karma: 282
I have moment planks (basically the rocker with early taper) and I really wouldn't want to take them into more that 3 or 4 inches of fresh snow. They are also symmetrical and centered mounted if that makes a difference in the bumps (I don't ski moguls well so I don't really know what is good or bad)
Aug 10 2010 12:08AM
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