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Shale Gas: Hopes for Our Energy Future

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ski_DC
Posts: 1347 - Karma: 58
My dad is an energy lawyer who has recently been doing a lot of work with natural gas storage projects and he emailed me this Post article. It's an interesting read for those who care, and shows shale gas as a viable alternative (not solution, mind you) to petroleum dependence.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/01/AR2010080103288.html

Sparknotes:
we have shit tons of natural gas, which is cleaner than petroleum. It is readily available and can help cut dependence on foreign oil by a decent amount. Also, it has massive positive geopolitical implications, particularly in Europe and Asia
Aug 2 2010 2:59PM
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Poundtown
Posts: 519 - Karma: 305

i like the idea but reality is that oil companies are too powerful for new proposals.

Aug 2 2010 3:01PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
Aug 2 2010 3:02PM
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Wild_Style
Posts: 155 - Karma: 10
It's far from perfect


Aug 2 2010 3:03PM
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Wild_Style
Posts: 155 - Karma: 10
Well played Commonwealth!
Aug 2 2010 3:03PM
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ski_DC
Posts: 1347 - Karma: 58
Believe me, if anyone knows the imperfect nature of natural gas, it would be me haha. Yes, it is imperfect, but so is petroleum. So is any energy source. Its really a matter of the lesser of 2 evils, on a broader stage
Aug 2 2010 3:04PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
Hahaha I love how its the same exact trailer, too...not even the HBO one.
Aug 2 2010 3:06PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
Lesser of two evils, perhaps. But I'm of the state of mind that we shouldn't be saying "We're running out of oil, let's find something else" but that we should be saying "We're running out of oil, let's reduce our consumption".
Aug 2 2010 3:15PM
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Wild_Style
Posts: 155 - Karma: 10
It's becoming more common to fuel cars with it in Europe, cleaner and cheaper. And yes it doesn't involve the Middle East or offshore drilling, but it still doesn't make me "hopeful" for our energy future just yet.
Aug 2 2010 3:15PM
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Stan_Darsh
Posts: 3057 - Karma: 185
increasing energy efficiency and decreasing energy consumption are some of the simplest, most effective ways to shape our energy future. The fact of the matter is, however, petroleum has a limited and dwindling supply, so its crucial that we start shifting away from dependence on those resources right now.
Aug 2 2010 3:25PM
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Stan_Darsh
Posts: 3057 - Karma: 185
and yes i definitely agree that natural gas has its disadvantages and health issues (explosions, contamination), but it definitely has some great potential as well. also, are these health issues and other problems much different than those associated with petroleum? no, not really.
Aug 2 2010 3:28PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
I hope to see a shift in wind power. Although wind makes up such a small percentage of energy generation, the ROI for wind is surprisingly high (25:1), especially compared to those of coal and nuclear (5:1 each). I didn't look for any numbers for natural gas, oil, or solar, but I'd be interested in seeing those.

http://www.eoearth.org/article/Energy_return_on_investment_(EROI)_for_wind_energy
Aug 2 2010 3:41PM
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AALT
Posts: 1775 - Karma: 60
Ive seen Gasland. Solar, wind and wave power are clean.
Aug 2 2010 3:47PM
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bermbuster49
Posts: 7445 - Karma: 90
.this
Aug 2 2010 3:50PM
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walueegee
Posts: 37 - Karma: 10
lrn2 nuclear.
Aug 2 2010 3:58PM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
"EROI" not ROI. The ROI for wind power in many cases is negative, supported only by subsidies.

Wind turbines are not the answer. It would take something like 700 wind turbines to match the power output of the Gulf well that is blowing out. Plus it is not always windy and you have to build them way out in the country. Room temperature superconductors could solve this problem but they dont exist.

Also shale gas is not anything new, but you need somewhere around 7$/mcf gas for it to work, we are at ~5 right now.

Gasland is hot garbage. It made me sick to watch. NOTHING IN THAT MOVIE IS FACTUAL AND IT IS ALL BULL SHIT. Caps was needed. I have a couple pdf s debunking it and if you live in colorado I can take you out to some tank batteries so you can see for yourself. Again THAT "DOCUMENTRY" is not real, it is all fake.

And just a final claim; I went to the school mentioned in the article and know John Curtis pretty well. /claim
Aug 2 2010 3:59PM
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Stan_Darsh
Posts: 3057 - Karma: 185
yeah man wind's got some of the best potential for sure. the biggest challenge with wind and other renewables like solar is that there need to be better technologies developed for energy storage. They are coming out with a bunch of new types of batteries and other energy storage systems that have large-scale energy storage capacity, but everything is still really expensive. smart metering and smart grid technologies also need to be implemented because our current transmission system is pretty inefficient.


For my job this summer, I've been working at an organization helping to develop a community energy plan. I basically conduct a bunch of research and write papers about renewable energy/energy efficiency. learned about a bunch of really interesting information and new technologies regarding energy.. i'll share some of the stuff i've found when I have more time.
Aug 2 2010 4:02PM
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1337
Posts: 31049 - Karma: 29,195
this.
Aug 2 2010 4:09PM
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Ski_da_Bay
Posts: 269 - Karma: 14
This is why it will never come to fruition.
Aug 2 2010 5:12PM
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ski_DC
Posts: 1347 - Karma: 58
because of positive implications? would that not make it a more attractive option?

and yes, we need to reduce consumption first and foremost, but this is a relatively feasible alternative to our current energy predicament.
Aug 2 2010 5:35PM
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Ski_da_Bay
Posts: 269 - Karma: 14
Because the possible improvement of quality of life and development in third world countries.
Aug 2 2010 5:37PM
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Parrish
Posts: 8695 - Karma: 1,008
I am so renting this video.
Aug 2 2010 5:43PM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
[img]http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:cemPt5GhvIzScM:http://theshentontimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/blank-facepalm.gif&t=1[/img]
Aug 2 2010 5:53PM
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Parrish
Posts: 8695 - Karma: 1,008
Nice fail of a Facepalm Fucktard.


And I really want to it see it. Just ordered it though netflix.
Aug 2 2010 5:57PM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
Click for larger image

and I am aware of my previous fail.
Aug 2 2010 5:58PM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
This movie is bull shit propaganda.
Aug 2 2010 5:59PM
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Parrish
Posts: 8695 - Karma: 1,008
Ya and global warming isn't real.

Get out of your hole.
Aug 2 2010 6:01PM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
I fucking hate you.

Data indicates global warming is happening.

Gas Land is bull shit.

Grow up douche.
Aug 2 2010 6:07PM
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Parrish
Posts: 8695 - Karma: 1,008
I haven't seen it yet so I can't decided. Maybe you should judge after I see the fucking thing, and have my own honest opinion.
Aug 2 2010 6:08PM
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OlliePop
Posts: 160 - Karma: 10
tell that to the polar bears
Aug 2 2010 6:12PM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
You are going to believe everything in the movie. I am telling you it is bull shit coming from 6 years of field experience and 2 degrees.

If you serious about getting both sides of the story pm me your email and I will send you a debunking pdf and if you want my phone number and we can go through every outrageous point this guy makes in this garbage movie.

It gets really frusturating having a pile of shit like this come out. My own mom called me almost in tears beause of this fucking movie. NATURAL GAS PRODUCTION IS NOT AT ALL LIKE THIS MOVIE SHOWS, EVERYTHING IN THIS FILM IS BULL SHIT.
Aug 2 2010 6:13PM
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Parrish
Posts: 8695 - Karma: 1,008
Okay then, but I still want to see it. I'll get your pdf as well.
Aug 2 2010 6:19PM
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Wild_Style
Posts: 155 - Karma: 10
I didn't take everything in that movie verbatim as it is certainly not a complete documentary and was designed to sway an opinion- But there has to be some founded truths there, it is not all bullshit. Also, I can imagine you must have a slightly biased and/or threatened view on the subject having worked within the industry.
Aug 2 2010 6:27PM
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yellav
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 1,217
why dont we focus on not using gas?
Aug 2 2010 6:29PM
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1337
Posts: 31049 - Karma: 29,195
exactly.

See above post, lrn2 nuclear
Aug 2 2010 6:31PM
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Wild_Style
Posts: 155 - Karma: 10
Because it's too damn affordable right now.
Aug 2 2010 6:32PM
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Parrish
Posts: 8695 - Karma: 1,008
Cheap and frankly, we as a human population don't give a fuck about the earth.
Aug 2 2010 6:34PM
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grown-ninja
Posts: 3031 - Karma: 175
energy lawyer...you must have a nice house
Aug 2 2010 6:44PM
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ski_DC
Posts: 1347 - Karma: 58
lrn2 thorium. shit is the best stuff since sliced bread. http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2005/07/68045

and yeah, energy lawyer means nice house, but also means I live in DC with an astounding lack of skiing. But DC is the shit, so im not complaining
Aug 2 2010 9:58PM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
Why did we need the Energy Policy Act of 2005 to exempt natural gas extractors from the protections in the Clean Air Act, Safe Drinking Water Act, Clean Water Act, and CERCLA?

Aug 2 2010 10:33PM
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InitialG
Posts: 1505 - Karma: 14
I run emissions tests on natural gas compressor engines. The oil industry really is as shitty and evil as they are made out to be, and probably worse than we even know. The epa protocols we follow are basically designed to ridiculously underestimate the pollution coming out of their equipment. My job is basically a chinese firedrill.

The site I'm going to tomorrow has shitty cooling for the 12 gigantic compressors so to keep everything from shutting down everyday they spray the produced water (toxic nasty-ness that is a byproduct from all sorts of processes) all over the ground trying to cool it all down. These companies completely fuck up everywhere they go.

God damn I can't wait til winter comes and I quit this shit to be a bum in breck again. 
Aug 2 2010 10:48PM
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C-Burg
Posts: 4729 - Karma: 130
i am sorry but the "dwindling" supply of oil is way over used. The stuff is everywhere and isnt going to go away anytime soon.


Also, I hate when people state that wind and solar will decrease our dependence on oil. The use of oil for electricity is very small and almost insignificant. It is comparing apples to oranges. Wind and solar produce electricity and do not power IC engines that almost everyone uses
Aug 2 2010 11:29PM
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Tasche
Posts: 5422 - Karma: 99
Please explain where it says that oil companies are exempt.

The oil and natural gas industry is regulated under every single one of these federal laws — under provisions of each that are relevant to its operations.

The 2005 energy bill was supported by nearly three-quarters of the U.S. Senate, including then-Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois. In the U.S. House, 75 Democrats joined 200 Republicans in supporting the final bill.
Aug 2 2010 11:56PM
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sherwood4099
Posts: 1173 - Karma: 22
Watching the reaction too your posts in this thread makes me sick. I feel like your having to beg people to ingest an experienced opinion.
Some people just so intent on hating/ demonizing the industries that they daily exploit and would be helpless without.

Aug 3 2010 1:00AM
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C-Burg
Posts: 4729 - Karma: 130
Thank you, I hate when someone who is actually in the industry and knows what the hell is going on is told they are wrong because someone read something on the internet somewhere. I think people in the industry know pretty well
Aug 3 2010 1:07AM
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mysticllamarider
Posts: 343 - Karma: 4
FUCK THE WORLD
Aug 3 2010 1:12AM
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Parrish
Posts: 8695 - Karma: 1,008
So you expect people to believe all what the industry says about themselves...

I'm not saying he isn't correct it's just one view or side. Also the industry might know, but are they going to really tell us all they know.
Aug 3 2010 1:15AM
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infedel_one
Posts: 5140 - Karma: 444
i hope my xbox will still work
Aug 3 2010 1:15AM
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C-Burg
Posts: 4729 - Karma: 130
One view or side? there really isnt a different view or side when you state fact. he works in the damn industry i think he know. actually the people i know who work in the industry telll the truth.   Where do people get the whole notion that the Oil industry and Oil companies are evil, too big, too powerful, and lie to everyone? It is insane. I have also noticed that when oil company earnings are announced, they tend to leave out how much they spent top earn that much money. Drilling for oil ins't a cheap operation
Aug 3 2010 1:25AM
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Dukeybrains
Posts: 1030 - Karma: 11
Solar power from space and tidal power are the future.

maybe vacuum power from space too
Aug 3 2010 1:26AM
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