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Comprehensive thread on Marijuana legalization: your opinon.

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ButteredToast.
Posts: 6459 - Karma: 2,570
Before you shout "repost!", I'd like to take the time to have an intelligent discussion with the rest of NS on the topic of marijuana legalization.

Up until recently, I was pretty ignorant on the topic of marijuana prohibition. I don't smoke weed frequently, although I have before. A week or so ago, I finally got around to watching The Union: The Business Behind Getting High, and I have to say, I was blown away, and it has significantly changed my stance on legalization. Many of the issues they discuss are incredibly interesting, and if anyone has not seen it, please take the time to watch it. It is well worth the time.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9077214414651731007#

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-9077214414651731007&hl=en&fs=true style=width:400px;height:326px allowFullScreen=true allowScriptAccess=always type=application/x-shockwave-flash>

At first, I was a bit skeptical, as anyone would be, so I did my homework, and discovered that most of the things they were saying were true.


In a nutshell for those who haven't heard the facts already:
-Weed does not kill brain cells, and in fact, in some cases may actually stimulate cell growth.
-Weed does not cause cancer.
-Marijuana is one of the most universally useful plants known to man.
-Caffeine is much more addictive than Marijuana.
-Weed is a gateway drug only due to the fact that it is distributed through dealers. (Exposure to hard drugs; legalization would solve this.)

I cannot cover all the bases, as it is WAY more information than I can even begin to type. Watch the documentary for the rest of the story.

I also happened to watch a documentary by the BBC, and they did a good job of giving a neutral view on the issue.



In a nutshell:
-Marijuana does in fact increase the chances for schizophrenia, although incredibly minute.
-Marijuana does impair memory in users under 15 years of age.

In the end, the argument seems extremely lopsided. The pros of legalization abound, while - aside from feeling a little lazy for a while, and maybe eating a lot of Cheetos - the cons seem to be lacking quite a bit. It begs the question; Why in the hell isn't this legal?

SO. NS, I ask you, what's your stance on legalization? What would legalization mean for you? Why should/shouldn't we legalize it?
Jul 30 2010 2:03AM
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Sir.Steezealot
Posts: 1156 - Karma: 677
yep
Jul 30 2010 12:31PM
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Bar_Down
Posts: 5896 - Karma: 395
lol ya i know you didnt mean that, but let's say i have a headache, and i go smoke some weed, i still have a headache. i wouldn't necessarily call marijuana a pain-killer
Jul 30 2010 12:32PM
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Sir.Steezealot
Posts: 1156 - Karma: 677
you win
Jul 30 2010 1:31PM
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ButteredToast.
Posts: 6459 - Karma: 2,570
Very well put sir. I imagine companies would put some serious effort into producing good stuff, and the competition would probably deflate some of those high prices we're worried about.

Also, it would be funny buying weed from Marlboro hahah :P
Jul 30 2010 2:18PM
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Utard
Posts: 2132 - Karma: 305
Nobody on here understands the real reason for the gateway effect: It's because when you take those stupid DARE classes/ see those retarded anti-drug commecials they lump weed in with all the hard drugs. That means that some dumbasses will smoke their first bowl and say, "Hey I smoked weed and I didn't get addicted or die or my face didn't get fucked up. The government lied about drugs. I can try cocaine and nothing will happen to me. Drugs really aren't that bad." Someone was kinda getting at this earlier but it wasn't really articulated.
Jul 30 2010 2:47PM
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DutchhGutss
Posts: 896 - Karma: 124
Legalize.
Jul 30 2010 5:13PM
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Spillway_East
Posts: 1127 - Karma: 378
my threads so i can watch the BBC vids when i get home.
Jul 30 2010 6:58PM
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ECfreeski3
Posts: 12019 - Karma: 126
are you saying that marijuana's less "productive" (mega-subjective word) than any legal drug?
Jul 30 2010 7:13PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
Click for larger image
Click for larger image


Yes. People get lazy when they smoke a lot.
Jul 30 2010 7:16PM
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oreopancake.
Posts: 2596 - Karma: 21
same age for alcohol (Canada).

if it were legalized this year, no doubt I would want it available for all ages (i'm 16). But realistically, it would only be sold to people over the age of 18/19, and medical patients.

I'm not sure about California though, probably 18.
Jul 30 2010 7:17PM
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ECfreeski3
Posts: 12019 - Karma: 126
so your citation is two comedy movies?

and id love to name you 5000 legal drugs that "make you lazier" or less productive than pot... first on the list would be the thousands of opiates and stuff like xanax that people are prescribed every day for all kinds of things, from intense pain (legit) to "i have trouble sleeping on planes" (not that legit). next on the list would be booze.. try to tell me youre more "productive" when youre drunk than when you smoke a j.

finally, pot doesnt make me lazy. if im in a lazy mood and i smoke, sure, ill relax and play some video games or whatever. more often, though, i get high and play sports, go to work, do things that include moving and thinking a lot. im not denying pot doesnt "make" some people lazy, but there's a lot more to it than that, not the least of which is people's perception of what pot does to you and a self-fulfilling prophecy
Jul 30 2010 7:24PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
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*Note to self*:
Never, EVER... crack jokes against marijuana... all of NS gets super butthurt.
Jul 30 2010 7:29PM
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ECfreeski3
Posts: 12019 - Karma: 126
who's butthurt? all i did was refute what you said. and where there's smoke there's fire, i cant help but doubt you wouldve said that if you didnt think what you were saying was at least a little bit true
Jul 30 2010 7:30PM
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oreopancake.
Posts: 2596 - Karma: 21
http://www.dare.com/home/NewsRoom/skip.asp

I raged when I read this.

First of all, I am to believe marijuana has not been proven to cause any type of cancer. Prove me wrong if you like, but that's just what I've learned.

And towards the number of vehicular trauma patients found with marijuana in the system, marijuana can stay in your system for almost a month..so i'm guessing many of those people weren't actually high when they were in the accident.

And don't get me started on the medical usage paragraph. You are really talking about the effects of marijuana, and saying it shouldn't be legal because of those reasons? Holy shit, look up any prescription drug and look at the side effects that come from those. Are you saying those shouldn't be legal either?

"...making users engage in risky behavior — including excessive alcohol consumption and use of harder drugs."

^don't even get me started on that. Fuck too late. It's already been talked about in this thread why the gateway drug theory is horseshit. And I've never wanted to have more booze when I was high, ever. That may just be personal, but whatever.

".... Taxes on pot would not come anywhere close to covering the inevitable societal costs."

and the taxes on pot aren't already doing nothing? We are already wasting billions of dollars a year taking down marijuana dealers/possessors/growers.

And according to this guy, people who want marijuana legalized "just want to get stoned". No shit sherlock.

But hey, who can blame this guy. He's a lawyer. A lawyer who probably receives tons of money from marijuana-related cases.

Jul 30 2010 7:36PM
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Alex_G
Posts: 11902 - Karma: 1,019
If MJ is legalized, corporations will be able to grow massive amounts of high quality dank making weed prices cheaper, and allowing the government to tax it a shit ton which will make our defecit much easier to recover from. if you are against this legislation you are a dumbshit.
Jul 30 2010 7:39PM
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Thenowhereman42
Posts: 5682 - Karma: 65
I doubt it. It is not illegal in any way to grow your own tobacco. People just can't be fucked. They don't know how to and they are too lazy anyway.

I already legally smoke weed because I have a doctor's recommendation for it because California is awesome. Full legalization including regulation and taxation is on the ballot this November. Should be interesting. Most polls place the vote at very close numbers.
Jul 30 2010 9:00PM
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GayWolf420
Posts: 37397 - Karma: 120,246

personally,  id like to see it get legalized.  I dont have any problem with weed but i just have 0 interest in smoking it.  Plus im tired of kids saying "OH YOURE JUST TO PUSSY TO SMOKE WEED, YOU PUSSY." 

Jul 30 2010 9:11PM
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Crack.
Posts: 6020 - Karma: 84
aka you don't have any argument to combat that
Jul 30 2010 9:37PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
No, it's actually

aka:
Sorry to say but I have seen around 4 people I know very well who had started smoking weed and went from 4.0 students to living on the streets cause they would wake up and smoke a joint then just sit around and do nothing other than go eat food and buy more weed to smoke more during the day.

Sorry, but to say that weed isn't addictive nor does it make one lazy is fucking stupid because yes, it may not have addictive chemicals in it but people get addicted to the feeling they get from it and YES, it fucking makes people sit around and do jack shit all day.
Jul 30 2010 9:50PM
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GratefulDead
Posts: 3554 - Karma: 84
Alright, well to say marijuana effects everyone in the same way and makes you lazy is pretty ignorant.

I have smoked with many different kids, and have definitely not seen them all become lazy after smoking. Not saying some havent, cause one of my friend falls asleep every time.

But many people who smoke become more energized and want to skateboard/do activities outside. It is a different feeling for everyone, depending on how often you use it, or your mindset, but its stupid to say it only makes you lazy and unproductive.
Jul 30 2010 9:59PM
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Crack.
Posts: 6020 - Karma: 84
that's just straight fucked up. Went from very productive students to complete degenerates on the streets? They must have been very stressed out and marijuana just effected them a way they found pleasing. These are only 4 examples though. Yea, I would have to admit that marijuana makes some people lazy, as shown in your examples, but to say that the majority get lethargic and unproductive, i'd have to disagree.
Jul 30 2010 10:03PM
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weegee
Posts: 15 - Karma: 10
Your anecdotes do not provide a reason for weed being illegal.
Jul 30 2010 10:05PM
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.Ben
Posts: 454 - Karma: 14
if we made highly concentrated thc pills then we might have something powerful enough to overdose on or cause considerable damage.

Weed in its natural state is harmless and fucks you up way less than alcohol and should be legal. It can even be a medicine as well as a strong fiber for industry and there is no argument that really supports the prohibition of weed.
Jul 30 2010 10:18PM
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TheHamburglar
Posts: 3895 - Karma: 3,315
that means your friends have problems, its not the weed. plenty of motivated people lead professional lives with high-paying jobs and smoke daily. I know plenty of em personally. teachers, lawyers, managers, hell most musicians you listen to probably sparked up before recording their shit.

not saying others dont sit around and do jack shit, I know those people too, and they had problems before they started smoking consistently. weed has the power to separate the unmotivated from the motivated.
Jul 30 2010 10:20PM
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ButteredToast.
Posts: 6459 - Karma: 2,570
This. They might as well have become alcoholics or chain smokers.
Jul 30 2010 11:35PM
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oreopancake.
Posts: 2596 - Karma: 21
looks like your friends don't have their priorities straight.

when you put weed over school/friends/family/work, then you're the problem, not the weed.
Jul 31 2010 5:44AM
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1337
Posts: 31054 - Karma: 29,246
wat
Jul 31 2010 5:52AM
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SHampson
Posts: 2355 - Karma: 1,180
Jul 31 2010 6:04AM
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oreopancake.
Posts: 2596 - Karma: 21
his friends obviously let weed control their lives, making it more important than anything else.

sorry if this is coming off as retarded I just got off work and I'm tired as fuck.
Jul 31 2010 6:06AM
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Bar_Down
Posts: 5896 - Karma: 395
you cant blame weed for that shit. they could've gotten up everyday and gotten drunk as fuck instead, which is completely legal if you're of age, and they still would've ended up on the streets. if you're irresponsible like that and let your life go down the shitter like that after sparking up a joint then you're just a fuckin retard.
Jul 31 2010 12:14PM
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Newschool_Pope
Posts: 2473 - Karma: 267
it strue that pure weed isnt as bad for your lungs as tobacco, but most of the time, if you dont always wanna relight your joint ull mix some tobacco with it which fucks your lungs since you dont use a filter.

i think they legalized or going to legalize having 15 gramms on you in my city (berlin, germany). atm its at 5 gramms, but many people smoke in public and no one cares so i dont think its going to matter much.
Jul 31 2010 12:23PM
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ECfreeski3
Posts: 12019 - Karma: 126
hahaha great logic dude. i hate to be the one to tell you, but your friends are lazy idiots and blame their shit on pot. period. if it wasnt pot itd be something else. i smoked every day in high school with my two friends, and they were both the valedictorians (one in the public school, one in the private) and i got/get great grades, pounded the SAT, and we also did excellently at sports (all stars etc). this isnt to brag, its just to tell you your anecdote doesnt mean shit and anyone who tries to tell me that pot's "less productive" than any legal drug has a head filled with rocks. SORRY.
Jul 31 2010 12:51PM
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sherwood4099
Posts: 1173 - Karma: 22
very well put. i have noticed most people posting on here have never experienced what its like to even live in legalized or even transitional area concerning pot laws
Jul 31 2010 1:01PM
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sherwood4099
Posts: 1173 - Karma: 22
Actually the price will be set by the market so prices initially wont change from what they are now. Then when taxed that will be added to the original price to compensate the growers profit margin.
OZs cost less than $50 base to make well. A $50 fixed tax per oz is absolutley massive.

who knows what will happen to prices outside the emerald tri.
Jul 31 2010 1:06PM
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EH_DUBS
Posts: 3080 - Karma: 969
Ah yes, because no one acts in movies anymore, movies are real life.

I mean it's not like seth rogen directed that movie and made mad bank hey? He's to lazy to do something productive cause he smokes.

Seems like he's doing better off than you...
Jul 31 2010 1:13PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
And your anecdote is correct for like what? 90% of people? Yeah fucking right.
Jul 31 2010 3:08PM
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Emma_Watson
Posts: 4491 - Karma: 6,797
I think it should be legalized. But you have to be 17 or older, based on the facts you stated, you woudn't want to impair your memory.
Jul 31 2010 3:13PM
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Uncle.Badness
Posts: 2545 - Karma: 55
I have the exact same stance.
Jul 31 2010 3:17PM
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Hood.[scdb]
Posts: 564 - Karma: 14
This is the smartest thread i've read in a month.
Jul 31 2010 3:45PM
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ECfreeski3
Posts: 12019 - Karma: 126
the point was clearly that there is not causation between smoking pot and being lazy/sucking at life. i obviously wasnt employing the same logical fallacy that you were and insinuating that when you smoke pot you do well in life. the point is that pot does not "make you lazy." saying that all currently legal drugs are more "productive" is moronic. also cut the facepalm/"i was joking" shit out, it's such a cop out
Jul 31 2010 4:42PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
Wanna know something. You using your life and your friends is as logically stupid as me using my friends as examples. Fact remains that pot may not have a chemical in it that is addictive but it is an addictive substance that people do ruin their lives with. And it happens more than people that lead a successful life while on it.


And while no one has died of pot overdose itself people have died while on it driving and doing other really stupid shit just like alcohol.

So sorry, I couldn't give two fucks if it gets legalized or not but if people want it legalized they can't be using the smoking aspect to show it's safe. Use the fact that hemp can be used for paper, rope, and clothing material and then it will get legalized for usage in some fashion.
Jul 31 2010 5:02PM
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MCIRONCOCK
Posts: 3094 - Karma: 30
I think the basis of that argument was a comparison to cigarettes, to show that smoke from marijuana is relatively harmless compared to smoke from tobacco. I don't think anyone is suggesting that the state of mind during a marijuana high is completely harmless in any situation.
Jul 31 2010 5:12PM
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ECfreeski3
Posts: 12019 - Karma: 126
are you kidding? i just said that i WASNT using the same logical fallacy as you.. thats literally what you replied to, me saying specifically that my example was not to use the same faulty logic as you were, simply to refute yours..

and your claim that more people "ruin their lives with it" than be successful and smoke is completely baseless.

finally, alcohol is legal. so saying that pot MAY be involved with car accidents, to a degree far less than alcohol, does not help your case at all

maybe youre just playing devil's advocate, but youre not doing a good job
Jul 31 2010 5:35PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
its not the smoke that causes cancer, its the radioactive pesticides used by tabacco growers, cancer is just a mutation of a cell, and radiation causes that to happen rapidly
Jul 31 2010 5:41PM
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theabortionator
Posts: 51664 - Karma: 162,493
I figured i'd finally click this since it didn't die.

Too many of these threads. It should obviously be fully legalized, no discussion needed.

end thread
Jul 31 2010 5:42PM
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ButteredToast.
Posts: 6459 - Karma: 2,570
This. I know a lot of people say "I'm a good driver while I'm high!", but as for me, personally, whenever I'm high, I can't possible comprehend driving like that. I don't know how people manage to drive when they're ripped. It doesn't make sense to me.

Also, I can see people doing really stupid shit while high and injuring/killing themselves.

While it is true that you cannot find a SINGLE death directly related to marijuana, I think it would be daft to say that you couldn't find a death indirectly related to marijuana, such as doing something stupid whilst high.

But to be fair, if you hurt/kill yourself while high, you obviously didn't handle it responsibly.
I feel like there definitely is a point where you can get WAY too high and end up fucking yourself up. Smoke in moderation, just like you would drink in moderation.
Jul 31 2010 9:19PM
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GratefulDead
Posts: 3554 - Karma: 84
Well you could die from just about anything if you really think about it. Dying is not something which is hard to do.

You could get buzzed from a cigarette and get in a crash and die, but thats legal. You could eat too much candy and get a stomach-ache and then crash and die too.

What im trying to say is that you could say anything is bad for you if it indirectly causes death.
Jul 31 2010 9:54PM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
the point is that you are aware of your impairment and not emboldened by it.
Jul 31 2010 10:30PM
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BootySpunk.
Posts: 8148 - Karma: 84
I don't like driving when I am high because I get super paranoid and drive super slow and weird shit always seems to happen. But I usually only do it when I have to.

But I agree with you on people doing stupid shit when they are high but usually I don't do dangerous things...I am usually too scared or timid to get hurt when I am high lol

I do come up with epic ideas though.
Jul 31 2010 10:44PM
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ButteredToast.
Posts: 6459 - Karma: 2,570
this is a valid point.

However, an impairment is an impairment either way and its difficult to compensate for that.
Aug 1 2010 1:46AM
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