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Comprehensive thread on Marijuana legalization: your opinon.

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ButteredToast.
Posts: 6459 - Karma: 2,570
Before you shout "repost!", I'd like to take the time to have an intelligent discussion with the rest of NS on the topic of marijuana legalization.

Up until recently, I was pretty ignorant on the topic of marijuana prohibition. I don't smoke weed frequently, although I have before. A week or so ago, I finally got around to watching The Union: The Business Behind Getting High, and I have to say, I was blown away, and it has significantly changed my stance on legalization. Many of the issues they discuss are incredibly interesting, and if anyone has not seen it, please take the time to watch it. It is well worth the time.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9077214414651731007#

http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=-9077214414651731007&hl=en&fs=true style=width:400px;height:326px allowFullScreen=true allowScriptAccess=always type=application/x-shockwave-flash>

At first, I was a bit skeptical, as anyone would be, so I did my homework, and discovered that most of the things they were saying were true.


In a nutshell for those who haven't heard the facts already:
-Weed does not kill brain cells, and in fact, in some cases may actually stimulate cell growth.
-Weed does not cause cancer.
-Marijuana is one of the most universally useful plants known to man.
-Caffeine is much more addictive than Marijuana.
-Weed is a gateway drug only due to the fact that it is distributed through dealers. (Exposure to hard drugs; legalization would solve this.)

I cannot cover all the bases, as it is WAY more information than I can even begin to type. Watch the documentary for the rest of the story.

I also happened to watch a documentary by the BBC, and they did a good job of giving a neutral view on the issue.



In a nutshell:
-Marijuana does in fact increase the chances for schizophrenia, although incredibly minute.
-Marijuana does impair memory in users under 15 years of age.

In the end, the argument seems extremely lopsided. The pros of legalization abound, while - aside from feeling a little lazy for a while, and maybe eating a lot of Cheetos - the cons seem to be lacking quite a bit. It begs the question; Why in the hell isn't this legal?

SO. NS, I ask you, what's your stance on legalization? What would legalization mean for you? Why should/shouldn't we legalize it?
Jul 30 2010 2:03AM
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ButteredToast.
Posts: 6459 - Karma: 2,570
I don't know why imbed from Google didn't work. Click the link instead.

Also, mods, don't delete this. I had Rowen's permission.
Jul 30 2010 2:04AM
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Freeheel4real
Posts: 909 - Karma: 95
I find it hard to believe that inhaling smoke of any kind does not in some way increase the likelihood of developing lung cancer...just my opinion I guess
Jul 30 2010 2:04AM
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ButteredToast.
Posts: 6459 - Karma: 2,570
I should have elaborated on that.

Obviously inhaling any kind of smoke isn't good for you, due to the harmful properties of smoke, but the fact is that marijuana itself does not cause any kind of damage.

Even WITH smoking it, the damage is quite negligible (if used in moderation) in comparison to alcohol or tobacco.

IF legalized and regulated, the government could develop ways to ingest the plant WITHOUT using harmful smoke. Obviously we already have brownies and such, but things like these could be mass produced.
Jul 30 2010 2:08AM
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MCIRONCOCK
Posts: 3094 - Karma: 30
Could be a lack of carcinogens in the smoke.
Jul 30 2010 2:09AM
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Freeheel4real
Posts: 909 - Karma: 95
cool thanks for the clarification. Edibles FTW
Jul 30 2010 2:09AM
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Freeheel4real
Posts: 909 - Karma: 95
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/2005-02/1109562409.Me.r.html
Jul 30 2010 2:21AM
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Freeheel4real
Posts: 909 - Karma: 95
btw i only read the short answer =)
Jul 30 2010 2:22AM
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ski2sky.
Posts: 1800 - Karma: 897
inb4 mrstskier :)
Jul 30 2010 2:24AM
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Hansel.
Posts: 4583 - Karma: 112
That is like asking if there are carcinogens in all food. Short answer. Yes.
Jul 30 2010 2:24AM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
Intelligent... discussion..... ON NSG?!?!?!




That said, idk... if it gets legalized you do realize the gov't will find some way to make it illegal to grow your own and then tax the living SHIT out of the stuff they grow which will probably blow donkey, monkey, and elephant testicles.
Jul 30 2010 2:25AM
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Joshua.
Posts: 2957 - Karma: 6,230
yay drugs?
Jul 30 2010 2:26AM
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Freeheel4real
Posts: 909 - Karma: 95
sure but to what degree? I don't want to hijack this thread but the inhalation of smoke of any kind is far more prone to causing cancer than the small amounts of carcinogens in food.

That said I am for the legalization of weed, but people need to stop pretending that its beneficial to smoke in general...
Jul 30 2010 2:27AM
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ButteredToast.
Posts: 6459 - Karma: 2,570
I'm not sure about that. I can see them growing low grade stuff, but I can also see them growing a wide range of it as well.

Charge little for mids, and higher prices for better stuff?

I know in Canada, where it's decriminalized and they can sell it in coffee shops and such, they have a WIDE variety of strains, although I'm sure that's an entirely different thing in itself.

Iunno.
Jul 30 2010 2:29AM
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t3hb055
Posts: 813 - Karma: 15
Obviously, it might help the financial situation though. But something tells me even if it does become legalized most of the deal will stay as it is. Just to get out of taxes and so forth.
Jul 30 2010 2:30AM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
Well, in the US of stupid A..... they would probably tax it at an incredibly large amount.
Jul 30 2010 2:30AM
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Freeheel4real
Posts: 909 - Karma: 95
gotta pay those poor folks on welfare...
Jul 30 2010 2:33AM
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ButteredToast.
Posts: 6459 - Karma: 2,570
This. Smoking it is for sure NOT good for you, but anything in moderation (hard drugs are an exception) is okay.

With that said, in the BBC documentary, they talk about how they have developed medicinal marijuana that can be ingested via a pastelike substance. Problem solved. (As we established earlier, edibles ftw!)

And to Mr. Panda, they probably will end up taxing the piss out of it, but as I see it, regulating it and taxing it and making millions off of it is way better than spending millions of dollars fighting an unwinnable war against marijuana.
Jul 30 2010 2:35AM
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Freeheel4real
Posts: 909 - Karma: 95
So I pretty much agree with everything you just said.
Jul 30 2010 2:37AM
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Ski_da_Bay
Posts: 269 - Karma: 14
From a social and ecological standpoint, I say yes. Legalize! Legalize! Legalize! The positive results of complete legalization would far outweigh the negatives... On a national scale.

But having lived and loved Nor Cal my whole life, and having lived in the emerald triangle until very recently, I can't stand the thought of it being legal. The economy in the emerald triangle (Humboldt, Mendocino, and Trinity Counties) is based almost entirely off of cannabis. Growth, distribution, and all of the products that go hand in hand with cannabis (my cousin works at a convenience store in Fortuna, says that they go though about 100 bags of Doritos a day. Not a joke). If prop 19 passes in California, respectable and down to earth growers will get pounded by taxes, while schools in big cities will spend the tax money trying to make a failed system work.

All in all, I will vote yes on 19 and say yes to legalization, partly because California's budget deficit is so fucking high. Also because I believe the M&M species should be advanced as far as possible.
Jul 30 2010 2:46AM
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debrickshaw
Posts: 1957 - Karma: 68
OP covered alot of good shit
heres some more

yeah, inhaling burning hot smoke is bad for your lungs. no shit sherlock, but its not THAT bad. the benefits far outweigh the costs of it, it doesn't have tar or rat poison like cigarettes. also, vaporizers super heat the weed and extract the thc in a very efficient and healthy way. inhaling vape smoke isn't harmful at all, if pot was legal it would be alot easier to get and use vapes. pot can be cooked, no bad harmful effects from that

marijuana isn't physically addictive whatsoever
yes you can become "mentally" addicted to it, aka it becomes a habit. but you can become "mentally" addicted to anything. thats how your brain works. i guarantee that WOW or McDonalds is more addictive than pot. and even when it is a habit, its not a hard one to break at all. there aren't withdrawal symptoms, and you can essentially stop whenever you want. it isn't hard.

marijuana is fun as hell. it makes EVERYTHING better. end of story

if pot was legalized, money would be flowing to commercial business' and the economy instead of druglords, gangs, and dealers.

if the government could tax pot, prices would be lower AND the government would be making bank and working out of its huge debt. Right now most dealers sell at upwards of a 100% profit. medical marijuana dispensaries make an ABSURD amount of profit from selling weed. if weed was mass produced and sold commercially prices would be much lower, even with the huge taxes. (and there are gonna be HUGE taxes when it's legalized) with any competition prices would be driven way down (it costs $5 for an ounce of pipe tobacco...and pot is easier to grow...)

it's already pretty much legal in colorado and california. ANYONE can get a card, they just gotta cough up 200 bucks for the doctors fee and show a bill that proves they are a resident (colorado law, I dont know cali rules)

WEED IS GOING TO BE LEGAL
its a fact, its slowly becoming legal

hemp, another part of the pot plant, is a much more environmentally friendly way of producing paper and a shitload of other things

did i mention weed is fun as hell?

pot is harmless. its just not even in the same category as most other illegal drugs, alcohol is more damaging to your body than pot is, nevermind shit like morphine and laughing gas.


sparknotes: pot should be legal, accept it and support it.
Jul 30 2010 2:55AM
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ButteredToast.
Posts: 6459 - Karma: 2,570
This just reminded me of another reason why we call it a gateway drug.

The fact that we call it a drug is a problem in itself. It has become a gateway to hard drugs simply due to association.

Alcohol is not called a drug. It does not produce a gateway effect.

Tobacco is not called a drug. It does not produce a gateway effect.

Marijuana IS called a drug. It produces a gateway effect.

See what I mean?
Jul 30 2010 3:00AM
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Ski_da_Bay
Posts: 269 - Karma: 14
Bullshit. Alcohol and Tobacco have more of a gateway effect than cannabis. Partly due to the fact that they develop physical dependency rather than psychological dependency.

It has good info even though it's wiki.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gateway_drug_theory

And this is kinda astounding.
http://www.drugwatch.org/Alcohol%20&%20Tobacco_Gateway%20Drugs.htm
Jul 30 2010 3:12AM
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Blake.P
Posts: 9894 - Karma: 3,585
Like stated earlier, it is a gateway drug because it is associated with harder drugs. I used to have a dealer that was also a LSD dealer. I only bought from him a few times, but I could have easily gotten LSD instead of weed. And that is the reason it is a gateway drug. But is should be legalized. Cali can make upwards of 1 billion a year (no hate, I'm trying to remember facts from a report indie a year ago, so I might be wrong). It can be taxed, and it would create less spending on trying and incarcerating people who are arrested for simple possession.
Jul 30 2010 3:15AM
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Ski_da_Bay
Posts: 269 - Karma: 14
LSD is not a hard drug at all. By comparison, Cannabis develops more dependence and causes about the same amount of physical harm.

About Cali, that's the current amount of money that could be made. If it were legalized and taxed, the amount of growers and cannabis grown would decrease by an unprecedented amount, and with it the amount of potential tax revenue. Partly due to the fact that much cannabis grown here is for export to other states where marijuana is not, and will not be, legal. It's a fucking minefield.
Jul 30 2010 3:27AM
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John_T
Posts: 138 - Karma: 59
Legalize!
Jul 30 2010 3:28AM
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Wobby
Posts: 316 - Karma: 266
I say legalize, and like 10 years down the road it probably will be anyway.  Even cops agree and know this is going to happen.

Some friends and I had a super scary night tonight.  In short, we were stenciling some art at American Flats (an old concrete mill and street art location near Reno) and smoked some weed and blew some stuff up, paint cans and such.  As we were leaving the cops pulled us over on the highway, because they had reports of fire and and defacing property.  After we had talked to them they searched our car and found among things, spray paint, stencils, a bb gun, fireworks, empty beer case, knife, two pipes, a brownie, and weed.  No joke we had done like 10 offenses against us and were high as shit.  After a lecture the cops took our weed and pieces let us off with a warning.  One of them was like "its going to be legal soon anyways".
Moral of the story: hes probably right, but until then be careful and smart.  Also, be honest to cops (which we mostly were).  It was a scary as shit experience that I wouldn't want anyone to face, we almost could have been felons and spent time in jail.
Jul 30 2010 3:46AM
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Joshua.
Posts: 2957 - Karma: 6,230
i don't know 1 kid on NS who doesn't want it legalized... fuck.
Jul 30 2010 6:05AM
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oreopancake.
Posts: 2596 - Karma: 21
If legalized, it could be regulated and sold to only people 19 and over. I know it's easier for me, and most kids my age, to get weed instead of liquor/tobacco. Dealers don't care what age you are, as long as you have money.

Also, to the gateway drug theory, I believe the gateway drug theory is a product of prohibition. This is because dealers will try and sell you some harder (aka more expensive) stuff, i.e. coke/acid/meth/etc. Without prohibiton, marijuana would be sold by authorized , reputable source, not drug dealers trying to score some dough. Also, if you look at Holland after it fully legalized marijuana, use of hard drugs went down substantially.

An article on marijuana prices if it were to be legalized:
http://www.cannabisnews.org/united-states-cannabis-news/study-marijuana-prices-to-crater-if-legalized/

Last point, think of all the tax dollars we could spend on other things (education, senior care) if marijuana was made legal: http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/

i might post some more points later, i'm just tired right now (which might make my post seem poorly written, sorryz).
Jul 30 2010 6:25AM
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Inbred_Redneck
Posts: 2776 - Karma: 28
This topic has been beaten to death.
Jul 30 2010 7:48AM
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ButteredToast.
Posts: 6459 - Karma: 2,570
Any reason why 19?
Jul 30 2010 8:45AM
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Bar_Down
Posts: 5896 - Karma: 395
only a matter of time
Jul 30 2010 8:46AM
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SkierX
Posts: 16253 - Karma: 538
The question that begs an answer really comes down to financial reasoning...

Sure, say tax it. But how do you ensure that taxes are being paid on a plant that is easy to grow, and a product that needs no manufacturing or true processing to be ready to consume?

I'm not against the legalization by any means, but I am curious as to how this roadblock would be handled.
Jul 30 2010 8:57AM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
you bank on people's laziness, and dependence on convenience. You could always supplement this by applying the tax to mj paraphernalia -- for growing or using.
Jul 30 2010 9:02AM
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SkierX
Posts: 16253 - Karma: 538
Ah yes, very fair assumption as well. People are inherently lazy, and would certainly choose the easiest avenue for obtaining.
Jul 30 2010 9:08AM
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DockEllis
Posts: 1131 - Karma: 1,745
sure the government will tax the shit out of it, but it will still be cheaper than it is now. I read somewhere that san fran was talking about voting on this particular subject and the estimated figures were that an oz would cost 50$ and another $50 for tax so that is still only $100 which is much cheaper than i am paying, that's for damn sure.

Also I am pretty sure that the legal stuff that is produced will not be bad at all. I do not know exactly how it would work, but I'd imagine that that private companies would be producing it and distributing it (it is rumored that marlboro already has a trademark in case it is legalized, marlboro greens). So there would be competition between companies to produce a better product.

just my thoughts
Jul 30 2010 9:25AM
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Cthulhu
Posts: 528 - Karma: 21
if weed was completely legalized it would be the end of modern strains for a while until the government actualy learned the genetics behind both sativa and indica plants, it would all be dirty shitty weed and taxed way to high and we couldnt grow personal crops anymore, decriminalization is what would be ideal for stoners, except theres no way that they would give up the taxing and distribution rights  
Jul 30 2010 10:44AM
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Bar_Down
Posts: 5896 - Karma: 395
the government wouldnt just throw themselves in the marijuana industry. they would most likely hire farmers and shit who already know wtf they're doing
Jul 30 2010 10:47AM
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TheHamburglar
Posts: 3895 - Karma: 3,315
meh, if prop 19 passes this november, it will take 2 years to take effect, and only apply to those 21 and up. as well as create mass chaos in the cannabis industry & put many dispensary owners out of business. obviously there are upsides, but prices have already been on a steady decline in the LA & surrounding areas. I say decriminalize everywhere, but not sure about full legalizing yet.

look at portugal, they decriminalized possession of small amounts of every drug, and offer optional treatment for those who are caught instead of punishment. did it work?

"Judging by every metric, decriminalization in Portugal has been a resounding success," says Glenn Greenwald, an attorney, author and fluent Portuguese speaker, who conducted the research. "It has enabled the Portuguese government to manage and control the drug problem far better than virtually every other Western country does."
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html
Jul 30 2010 10:59AM
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jeR.
Posts: 1325 - Karma: 58
hopefully they just legalize and distribute in the same fashion as the dispensaries in like colorado, rhode island, california, etc... but instead of being medical marijuana they dispense legal marijuana. like if your over 18 or 19 or 21 whatever they make the age you can get an id card and go in and choose what kind of strains you want, and they would have a variety of cheap low grade stuff to expensive high grade bud and hash. i think it would ruin a little bit of the fun if joints were sold in cigarette packs in convenience stores, just not how weed was meant to be smoked i duno
Jul 30 2010 11:38AM
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Bar_Down
Posts: 5896 - Karma: 395
if they do sell it already rolled like that, which they probably would considering so many ppl would love to just go in and buy a pack, there's no way they would ONLY sell it like that, cus a lot of ppl would want to use bongs or pipes and whatnot. and just look at tobacco, a lot of ppl just buy cigs, but you can still buy tobacco and roll it yourself, they wouldnt make it any different for weed.
Jul 30 2010 11:58AM
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skiierman
Posts: 28699 - Karma: -5,563
hahahaha, wow
Jul 30 2010 12:00PM
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gus555
Posts: 4170 - Karma: 34
i've never smoked weed so i probably shouln't talk in this thread but i if they did legalize it there would probably be a ton of laws about it such as, you would have to be 18 to buy it, there would probably be laws against growing your own, and so on. solid thread though good to see with all the fucking trolls
Jul 30 2010 12:07PM
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sheeby
Posts: 94 - Karma: 19
Your remark on schizophrenia is interesting as I just read an article in TIME about it:


Jul 30 2010 12:10PM
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Sir.Steezealot
Posts: 1156 - Karma: 677
There is so much ignorance in america it could not be possible to legalize it till there is a massive shift in public intrest towards legilization even then it would hard if not impossible because drug companies would lose millions if not billions due to marijuana's incredible ability to negate pain. There would be no need for pain killers and no pain killers means less money for the drug companies
Jul 30 2010 12:19PM
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GANDALF
Posts: 6303 - Karma: 6,578
threads
Jul 30 2010 12:23PM
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cheddafries
Posts: 1016 - Karma: 52
LEGALIZE!!!!

if someone buys from a sketchy dealer they don't know whats in it. it could be laced (ohmybosh) with something else. if you buy from the goverment you know its going to be just weed making it safer.

crime rates will definetly go down since you wont be dealing with drug dealers.

i wish i would of kept that essay i wrote about this!!! FUUUUUUU
Jul 30 2010 12:23PM
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GratefulDead
Posts: 3554 - Karma: 84
The legalization would trigger many other conflicts, it would obviously need to be something which is discussed and figured out. If they are going to do it they need an outline.
Jul 30 2010 12:24PM
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Bar_Down
Posts: 5896 - Karma: 395
i dunno about you guys, but i still feel pain after i blaze...
Jul 30 2010 12:24PM
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Sir.Steezealot
Posts: 1156 - Karma: 677
....whatever im not saying it knocks you out like oxycotin but still it helps
Jul 30 2010 12:30PM
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