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Can having no racing background mean I'm not a good freeskier?

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Cincher
Posts: 3403 - Karma: 535
I've been skiing for approximately 4 years, and I'm hearing that a lot of members had some racing background. This kinda makes me nervous, as they always tout it as improving their skiing ability overall. So, as the title says,is having no racing background mean I'm not a good freeskier?

Is there any way to make up for this? I don't wanna be grouped in with those excellent park rats that can't ski for crap outside the park!
Jul 25 2010 8:16PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
this



but i have no racing background whatsoever, or any structured program for that matter, yet i still ski much better out of the park than in it.
Jul 26 2010 3:46AM
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traylortrash
Posts: 1935 - Karma: 2,450
racing helps your actual skiing a lot, and being able to actually ski well does help the park a lot in my opinion. once you begin to progress at park, being able to ski well will help your landings, style, etc... or at least that's what it seems like to me. I've been skiing 14 years (raced 1 or 2), 2 or 3 of those in the park, and it does feel like the experience actually skiing helps in the park.

but to answer your question, no, you don't have to race to be a good skier. although it does help.
Jul 26 2010 4:42AM
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10...nuffsaid
Posts: 308 - Karma: 54
so true. i have never raced but i leaned alot by just watching ski racing and leaning into your run and turns helps alot. i really hate it with the whole a-bang crap. we now have a generation of skiers who have a huge sense of "Style" but have never skied properly. Most people believe that skiing properly means straight lining and leaning away from everything your doing. Not only is your balance off but your actually aren't even using your ski properly.

To the OP: if you lean into your turns and ride with your balance centered over your boots, bend your knees and use your edges to link turns instead of just buttering around like a noob than your doing a good job. (not saying that buttering isn't the bomb but i wish ppl woul learn to ski properly first, you'd actually do a better job and look even steezier if you learned skiing technique first) Also try to imagine a line from the middle of your boot through your center of gravity (usually around your belly button) and try to keep that line perpendicular to the slope your riding on. keep your feet about shoulder width apart and try to keep a wide stance by pretending you just took a dump in your xl pants and are trying to not let it touch you again. this gives you better stability and helps you ski well.
Jul 26 2010 11:40AM
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dan4060
Posts: 1458 - Karma: 847
No.  This is not true.  Also, you don't ski 'good' in the park, you ski 'well' in the park, but that is a problem for your English teacher.

If you live at a flat mountain back east I could see believing this, but it simply is not true.

For the OP, you don't have to have raced or skied bumps, but both disciplines help a whole lot.  What you need to do is ski outside the park as much as you can.
Jul 26 2010 12:25PM
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grambo
Posts: 1125 - Karma: 93

Racing helps, but it's not necessary. I believe Dana Flahr does not have a competitive background and is one of the top big mountain skiers around, and I don't think Sage does either? Then again, a lot of the top big mountain skiers do have a racing background (Seth, Shane, Ian Mac, Nobis, James Heim etc).

Do you need it to ski park well? Nope, all you have to be able to do is stand up in between jumps.

Jul 26 2010 12:56PM
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Legoman
Posts: 533 - Karma: 13

Racing will probably help as you learn ski technique, having said that it is not the be all and end all. There is technique involved in racing but unless your at the high end of things the amount of technique isnt really focused on enough as much as getting down and making sure you have a fast time.

I watched Alberta nationals two seasons ago and trust me I would say only 30% of them can actually ski.

Ski everything and try and learn correct technique, a lot of racers could probably benefit from skiing more all-mountain freeride type stuff even park and pick up some recovery skills.

If you can afford it get some lessons from a good instructor or take some of the higher level instructor courses/training.

Jul 26 2010 12:58PM
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10...nuffsaid
Posts: 308 - Karma: 54
alberta nationals? really? how does that make any sense? not bashing just want to know what exactly you mean. where did they take place?
Jul 26 2010 1:04PM
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vitols
Posts: 143 - Karma: 186
i raced for 12 years. it helps immensely. but if you do want to improve your abilities just go out and ski outside the park for a bit each day that you're on snow.
Jul 26 2010 1:09PM
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Cincher
Posts: 3403 - Karma: 535
Well then that makes me think I'm some idiot who possibly has poor form. I probably only have the money for a lesson.

And mogul skiers are near non-existent in Manitoba.
Jul 26 2010 1:15PM
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Cincher
Posts: 3403 - Karma: 535
I think that's approximately how I ski. I'll probably take next year to work on this and make sure I'm doing alright.
Jul 26 2010 1:19PM
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ham.sandwich
Posts: 30 - Karma: 10

I feel like, if anything, Racing teaches you a style that is not a s steezy as if you started doing tricks naturally from the start.

For example, i dont think wallish raced at at. But who is wallish anyway?

Jul 26 2010 2:03PM
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panojibber
Posts: 3382 - Karma: 216
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha......

Technique>style.

Pollard raced, TJ raced and skied moguls, Sammy raced at one point, Bushfield skied moguls, Hjorleifson raced, Jon raced, Tanner skied moguls, and the list goes on...

Style IS good technique. This is why so many NSers suck at park.... they are so concerned about looking good and being steezy that they completely forget about actually skiing.
Jul 26 2010 2:19PM
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vitols
Posts: 143 - Karma: 186
haha. nicely said.
Jul 26 2010 2:30PM
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sack
Posts: 4881 - Karma: 147
it's not necessary.... park skiing is actually the opposite of conventional skiing. normally you want to turn with your feet and not your hips/upper body. in park skiing all movements are initialized by the upper body.
I've only been skiing 3-4 years so you can get better without racing experience.
Jul 26 2010 10:13PM
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10...nuffsaid
Posts: 308 - Karma: 54
are you mentally retarded? Good skiing technique is all in the upper body. everything (from turn initiation to balance) about good skiing originates in your core. sometimes you boneheaded rats really get on my nerves. Nothing about park skiing should be different or "opposite" from skiing outside or on a big mountain line.


Learn to ski.


as for the list going on above for those you raced or moguled before park. hmm let me think...how about the godfathers themselves?  Mike Douglas, JF Cusson, Vincent Dorion and JP Auclair

also... Tanner Hall (i think) and Seth Morrison

Jul 26 2010 11:37PM
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-Marc-
Posts: 865 - Karma: 207
i only started skiing park a few years ago, and before that i just cruised around the mountain with my dad, and he really got me to work on my turns, and keeping a good form. i feel like this really gave me a good basic structure for skiing anywhere on the mountain, unlike most of my friends who are shit at skiing anywhere but the park. in my opinion, its alot better to learn how to ski outside of the park first, not nescesarrily racing, before you start doing tricks
Jul 27 2010 12:49AM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
If you can ski bumps and steeps well then you are probably a good skier.
Jul 27 2010 1:15AM
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Utard
Posts: 2132 - Karma: 305
Honestly the thing that helped the most for me was just growing up at snowbird. Even when they had their park years ago I never really went into it because I was too busy hitting the cliffs and steeps or the bc booters people built so when I actually started doing park a few years ago all the movements felt natural. If I were you I would take like a month or two off from hitting the park and try to do the most difficult terrain your mountain offers and when you get back to the park everything will feel more natural because you've become a better all around skier.
Jul 27 2010 2:38AM
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sack
Posts: 4881 - Karma: 147
no I am not mentally retarded...
where did you get this information on skiing from?
I am quite a good skier.
Jul 27 2010 2:43AM
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jensen
Posts: 2576 - Karma: 1,267
you're doomed.  jump off a cliff and kill yourself.
Jul 27 2010 2:45AM
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Bhblaine
Posts: 725 - Karma: 100
made me lol
Jul 27 2010 3:38AM
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Ribss.
Posts: 3442 - Karma: 3,344
hahahaha
Jul 27 2010 4:57AM
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grambo
Posts: 1125 - Karma: 93

I assume you mean Alberta Provincial finals, which could be young kids new to racing. There is no way is any competitive race that only 30% know how to ski, even entry level FIS racers have to be very strong skiers to compete on those courses. Alpine skiing involves turning skis on snow, racing is about how fast you can get down a course involving turns in very challenging conditions. The skills translate directly into big mountain style skiing which is why so many top level film/comp skiers have racing backgrounds.

It is absurd to think that taking ski lessons is going to be on par with racing.

Jul 27 2010 12:39PM
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vitols
Posts: 143 - Karma: 186
very true.
Jul 27 2010 12:45PM
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TLTQ
Posts: 525 - Karma: 29

lol thats win right there.

But no, just because you havnt raced doesnt mean your a bad freeskier. If you'd like to improve your skiing, like its been mentioned before. is take an instructor corse, it helps a lot. I've been skiing now for well over 15 years and have been instructing/coaching for the past 3 and i gotta say that in those last three years my skiing has progressed the most, both on the mountain and in the park. If you dont wanna do that, just rip up the rest of the mountain, go as fast as you can and shred.

Jul 27 2010 12:49PM
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sack
Posts: 4881 - Karma: 147
well... it's conceivable that a non-professional racer (eg. a kid who was in his mountain's ski racing club when he was young) could be a fast skier but not an extremely skilled skier. in my csia level 1 course there was this kid who used to race at the local level, and he typically skied fast hopping into his turns, but when the instructor slowed him down it was evident that he was initiating with the upper body.
that being said, any skier who races at a significant level (varsity/regional/national/olympic team etc.) would have much more developed skills.
basically, if you want to improve your skills and you can already ski a black diamond, you ought to take a ski instructing course. it really improves your skiing and shows you what to look for in a good/bad skier. it's an excellent value for your money, considering a private 2 hour lesson could run you $200 or more.
Jul 27 2010 1:14PM
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Legoman
Posts: 533 - Karma: 13
Yeah provincial haha, and yes it was juniors. Sure they can all "ski" but it only seems like 30% really understand how to ski and credit to them they fucking rip. You'd be surprised how many of those kids who still wont put the full weight on the outside ski and trust it to hold them.

Hmm maybe I didnt make my point in the best way, yes racing is good for learning how to ski properly but only if you are going to put the time in to it and do it properly, doing it for a little bit or not to a high standard isn't going to make any difference whatsoever.

I gathered from the OP that he feels like if he hasn't got a bit of racing background its going to effect him, whearas the point I was trying to make, perhaps pretty badly, was that its not racing specifically but its learning correct technique and skiing skills that a lot of pro skiers have gathered from racing backgrounds that he needs to find not specially racing. It might be better for him to do some other sort of intensive training/course than spend time racing if its something he dusnt enjoy, to gain the same skiing ability.
Jul 27 2010 1:15PM
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Uni-Threads
Posts: 131 - Karma: 76
Yes Racing background does help make people become better skiiers, However It's not the only thing that can help you become better and certainly does not mean your a bad freeskier.

Always been told the more miles on your skis the better skier you will become regardless of the type of skiing your doing.
Jul 27 2010 2:23PM
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KINKED
Posts: 147 - Karma: 27
pretty sure being able to slide a rail doesnt mean ur automatically a good skier
Jul 27 2010 2:36PM
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Cincher
Posts: 3403 - Karma: 535
What!? That's fucking ridiculous! Private lessons around here cost no more than $70!
Jul 27 2010 5:24PM
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thesheik
Posts: 1488 - Karma: 18
i think the reason so many famous pros came from a racing/moguls background is that this style of skiing that we all like so very much is so new/rapidly expanding. a guy like tj schiller (he's like 25, right?) probably grew up skiing moguls but didn't ski much park just because it wasn't really around or popular. just my 2 cents.
Jul 27 2010 5:52PM
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TLTQ
Posts: 525 - Karma: 29

I think YOU need to learn to ski.

Believe it or not, biesenthal is right. If you ever been in any kind of ski lessons and paid any attention, you would know that you would be turning wrong if you are using ur upper body to inisiate a turn. The only part of your upper body that should be moving is your wrists and arms when your pole planting and only so slightly. If you are turning with your sholders, then your not turning properly. Also resulting in setting your center of ballance off, and if your skiing anything too technical, you'll probably fall over.  You already mention some well known mogul skiers, and im sure if you ask them, they would tell you as well that your upper body has to be completely silent or close too. They would also tell you that good technique is about edging, and actually inititating the turn with your hips.  

And she's also right in the fact that park skiing goes against those fundimentals, because it actually relies on the seperation of lower and upper body and how they work together.  So ya, park skiing and just normal skiing are different because of those aspects.

My advice, take a ski lesson, because its quite clear that you dont know what you are talking about

Jul 27 2010 5:54PM
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alex.bgk.
Posts: 607 - Karma: 74
+k lol
Jul 27 2010 6:10PM
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belden...
Posts: 2914 - Karma: 1,274
I no you wont want to hear this but get poles that fit it will help tremendously. I actually have a pair for my park day and the non parks day and then finally a pole for the days i do both. I know it sounds ridiculous but it helps
Jul 27 2010 6:22PM
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sack
Posts: 4881 - Karma: 147
*could... yeah I think private lessons here are a bit more expensive, not sure how much though.
to the guy above^^ thanks for having my back, haha
Jul 27 2010 7:17PM
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10...nuffsaid
Posts: 308 - Karma: 54
my friend you were so close...its unfortunate you didn't see the real lesson i was trying to get at. I actually made a direct contradiction and over exaggerated my point. Of course you'd have to read the context and actually understand what i was trying to get at to see what i did. if you will please look again at my post i believe I said that everything you do in skiing should originate in your core. (balance, turn initiation, etc.) Your core is what helps move your hips (even if only with small movements. I do agree that balance is one of the biggest keys to skiing) Hips are what controls the legs and hips are what you should be turning with. I was actually trying to address her incorrect view that turning starts in the feet and that no turning is initiated by the hips. Granted i exaggerated my argument, which I'm sure confused you greatly, but i did finish by saying that all the turning should originate in the core. now i'm not going to tell you to learn to ski as you actually seem to be able to make a point that sounds somewhat coherent but please don't drag bisenthal into this by saying she's right.

the real lesson is that some people don't bother with context and make assumptions...and we all know what that does.
Jul 27 2010 7:28PM
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TROLLED.HARD
Posts: 1032 - Karma: -11
Racing= Won't help park skiing
Racing= Will be very benefital to big mountain.
Jul 27 2010 7:31PM
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grambo
Posts: 1125 - Karma: 93

CSIA level 1 is a joke (sorry, no offense). The problem with lessons is you learn technique for an hour or two and then are on your own.

Racing for a season you have the same coach watching your technique for hours upon hours a week, even at entry level you are being coached at least 16 hours a week on snow, and you test your skills racing.

Sorry, but lessons do not compare, and I personally think even NorAm racers and freeski competitors are superior skiers to the top level CSIA pros. A technically perfect demo turn at low speed on good snow is meaningless compared to winning a GS race or a freeski comp at full intensity.

Jul 27 2010 7:50PM
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MN_Nice
Posts: 3824 - Karma: 56
Haven't raced a day in my life. I skied for a year or two non-park and have had twin tips ever since.
Jul 27 2010 7:52PM
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sack
Posts: 4881 - Karma: 147
thanks, and none taken. I don't plan to spend forever at level 1.
I would love to spend 5 days a week training with a race coach, and I'm sure everyone else would too, but I have to earn money. and at 24, it's not going to get me anywhere. same with 99% of the skiing population.
the level 4s do have to do a slalom course, in perfect form.. in moguls. it's part of the level 4 exam

Jul 27 2010 8:13PM
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aputnam
Posts: 80 - Karma: 41
racers definitely make the best overall skiers because you realy learn how to control your skis. be it large carves down the hill or tight jump turns down a skiny coulouir. if you can't leave some deep "rail road" tracks behind as you rip down the hill, then yous aint shit in my book. also racing gets rid of "A" frame. it looks ugly and is not a strong skiing position. but without a race backround, you'll be fine. just make sure you're not swooshing your tails out. track 'em around. figure that out and u'll do just fine
Jul 27 2010 8:30PM
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-MickeyM-
Posts: 126 - Karma: 280
I ski raced for like 3 years and now ive been skiing park for 2 years. I just was racing to learn how to ski better first, but not racing doesnt take away from park skiing.
Jul 27 2010 9:55PM
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jeR.
Posts: 1325 - Karma: 58
you can still become a very good skier without any racing background, but it certainly does help alot.
Jul 27 2010 10:05PM
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ski@jaypeak2
Posts: 2802 - Karma: 429
this
Jul 27 2010 11:01PM
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openmindportrait
Posts: 1157 - Karma: 818
racing is an awesome way to get good i raced for 3 years but on the other hand when you look back knowing you wore a skin tight spyder racing suit and are now in a XXL jacket with a XXXL tall tee it is weird
Jul 27 2010 11:42PM
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TLTQ
Posts: 525 - Karma: 29
wow, that was pretty longwinded, but it really does not relate to what i called you out on. i figure without insulting your intelagence to much, but maybe, when your trying to cover up how big of a tool you really are; when you get called out for calling some one a retard, you should maybe make sure that you dont just re-word what you got proved wrong on. just so theres no confusion, wouldnt want to look like a douche bag, right?
Jul 28 2010 12:31AM
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10...nuffsaid
Posts: 308 - Karma: 54
ahh yes, my stupidity far outweighs your attempt at being smart. thanks for all those big kid words man. i'll definitely be taking what you say to heart. in fact i may go out and get a english prof, ski instructor and therapist (since i all those words are going to affect me and probably bring up horrible childhood memories) all wrapped up in one. you have any references? you obviously have such a superior intelligence.



i bow to you master.
Jul 28 2010 10:08AM
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stokedelic
Posts: 1519 - Karma: 3,863
and apparently did the opposite with grammar.
Jul 28 2010 11:09AM
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sack
Posts: 4881 - Karma: 147
CSIA curriculum..... a course designed by people who have been studying skiing since before you were born
where did you get your information from?
Jul 28 2010 11:29AM
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TLTQ
Posts: 525 - Karma: 29
Click for larger image

Wow, I dont even know what to say to you. I think your just TROLLin it up, probably the reason your karma is only 2 digits. I guess one thing to say would be grow up buddy, cuz the last few post you made make you sound like a dumbass 14 year old....

Jul 28 2010 12:08PM
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