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October, 2024

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DONT SUPPORT GRENADE GLOVES!!! read inside

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andrewmeehan
Posts: 765 - Karma: 364
I know Grenade is a Snowboard company, but this should give you more reasons to NEVER support them.
The company is run by dicks.

^
read this.
Jul 22 2010 6:58PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
No one knows. Your website doesn't even work.
Jul 23 2010 11:48AM
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PeterWojnar
Posts: 3937 - Karma: 678
Good point, I was thinking magazine.

And no, it's not like free glove- internet use of a photo is internet use, and photos need to get paid for. You don't hire a plumber to fix your pipes and pay him in work gloves. You pay him in money. It's the same for photography.
Jul 23 2010 11:55AM
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jerad
Posts: 3236 - Karma: 47
hahaha grenade sucks.

Jul 23 2010 12:00PM
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PASKIINGSUCKS
Posts: 9097 - Karma: 777
and how much would you pay a plumber to come to your house and turn off the faucet??

and the deck analogy doesn't stand I'm sure because I'm sure the carpenter had a price or something close to it agreed upon before he started work.

seriously why would a professional photographer give his photo to the rider to just do what he wants with???

There are professional photographers on the river all the time, but you can't walk up to him and ask for his memory card. You gotta visit their website and purchase a photo. I don't understand how this rider just to take this guys photo back with him without any agreement. of course I'm not a pro photo guy either obviously.
Jul 23 2010 12:09PM
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JTK
Posts: 1695 - Karma: 73
no argument about usage, or doing whats right for any photographers business practices.
I just feel that generally burning any bridge in an industry as tight as this, where everyone knows everyone, is ultimately destructive to your own aspirations. The outcome needed to be weighed against a lot of options, running a business cant be about getting what you deserve 100% of the time. You may not want to be friends personally with these dudes at grenade, but maintaining a business relationship no matter how thinly based seems most important. It's the cost of doing business, and everyone needs to weigh a perceived inconvenience with the bigger picture.
And grant gunderson receives different treatment than this individual, rightly or wrongly so.


Jul 23 2010 12:25PM
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JosephStalin
Posts: 1673 - Karma: 100
im sending grenade an email, you should do the same

JC@grenadegloves.com
Jul 23 2010 12:35PM
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Zump.
Posts: 3338 - Karma: 305
wow, what a scumbag. Did he get his money? Sorry if its in the thread, I didn't read it
Jul 23 2010 12:40PM
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hey-dude-its-me
Posts: 4238 - Karma: 412
sorry don't have one, not a computer nerd
Jul 23 2010 12:42PM
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ericjj
Posts: 10 - Karma: 10
damn dude that sucks, hope chris gets paid, he shouldnt have to deal with that
Jul 23 2010 12:43PM
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hey-dude-its-me
Posts: 4238 - Karma: 412
that wasnt supposed to be anything negative towards paaskiing Im just saying
Jul 23 2010 12:43PM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
You have NO idea what you are talking about. You clearly have never worked in the industry, with a phtoographer, or for any sort of marketing company/job.

You are throwing out random figures, and random ideas that you are claiming as fact. You could not be farther from the truth, and the law.

Plain and simple the company violated his contracts, and many photographers have dealt with this. Check out a little website called

ascartel.com

sportsshooter.com

and a little program called Fotoquote.

Trying to piss him off? The emails that Chris was sending were fairly professional, and I think he handled the situation with great patience. Many photographers including myself have a non-payment clause in their contracts. Mine goes up 10% of every 15 days the client does not pay.

Just stop, please.
Jul 23 2010 1:01PM
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SteevJee
Posts: 1916 - Karma: 144
...and you must have the intellect of an ant.
Jul 23 2010 1:02PM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
its called a photo proof. Most people send in low-res copies (normally watermarked though) to Magazines, Athletes, and Team Managers for possible sales. These are perfect for preview because they are small, quick, and give a good view on a computer which is only a limited size and resolution.

People expect to sell photos mostly for print, so when a company takes a photo that was taken and submitted for possible sale, the company/magazine/TM will ask for the high res images for specific uses, thats when contracts/usage is negotiated.

However the web only displays a limited amount of PPI, so a low res image- Is perfect for the web. You cant tell its small or low res because it displays so small.

The fact is most payment is negotiated by the amount of times someone will see the photo or it will be displayed. The grenade website probably gets a fair amount of traffic, and through most photo price quoting programs, I am sure the usage fee was more than a 2 digit number.

Everyone that is saying he should have ate his words and let it go "for business purposes" and the thats just the "cost of doing business" have no idea about the photographic trade, or the market for that matter. Every time a photographers work is given up for free, the overall market, and other photographers are hurt. In a trade that is quickly dying out, it is imperative that photographers and filmers work to ensure the value of their work, as well as others. I am sorry but "the cost of business" is not just giving out your product for free to anyone who uses it without asking.
Jul 23 2010 1:17PM
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JTK
Posts: 1695 - Karma: 73
its called a contrary opinion, so you have NO idea what im talking about would be a better statement.

I claim nothing as fact. Maybe i have to read the thing again, but from my understanding he had no contract with grenade for them to violate. the image came to them via the athlete.
I agree that far too many photographers have to deal with this. I'm simply stating that in the environment where this runs rampant that taking a different approach than this is possibly beneficial.

im familiar with fotoquote and those websites, but thats sort of irrelevant to my own opinion.

feel free to respond, i wont even tell you to stop.
Jul 23 2010 1:18PM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
Contract? Its called US copyright.

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

It does not matter where the image came from. Thats standard practice. That is no excuse to steal it. It is the sole property of the original creator.
Jul 23 2010 1:23PM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
clearly.
Jul 23 2010 1:24PM
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Keyjibbs
Posts: 1542 - Karma: 96
I can't believe how ignorant some people in this thread are. It's his job to sell photos to make a living. It doesn't matter he if didn't watermark a photo that was supposed to be a proof. Grenade is a large enough company to know that they have to pay for photos for both web and print. I feel this needed to be shown and I'm glad it's getting blown up. It happens too often photographers just say fuck it and move on after not getting paid. Grenade is obviously full of fucking idiots who have zero grammar skills and don't act professional. I'm sure that's the way most of the snowboard industry feels about them as well.
Jul 23 2010 1:28PM
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Brenone
Posts: 4944 - Karma: 296
posted on sierrasnowboard.com:
http://www.sierrasnowboard.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=38419&PN=1&PID=807577
Jul 23 2010 1:32PM
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Utard
Posts: 2132 - Karma: 305
Shit ha ha this is like the worst possible publicity for Grenade. Two of the biggest communities in skiing and snowboarding have now turned against them.

P.S. Andrew you should get this onto TGR too and turn the mags against Grenade.
Jul 23 2010 1:36PM
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Brenone
Posts: 4944 - Karma: 296
it on TGR also. i saw it this morning.

not that im a member there, cough cough. lol
Jul 23 2010 1:37PM
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Utard
Posts: 2132 - Karma: 305
ehem umm none of us are
Jul 23 2010 1:42PM
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debrickshaw
Posts: 1957 - Karma: 68
that's such bullshit, but i honestly cant say i'm too surprised that grenade is run by a raging d bag

that photog is gonna get his money, too bad he had to go through all this bullshit to get it
Jul 23 2010 1:49PM
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JTK
Posts: 1695 - Karma: 73
no need to be a prick. I've simply stated that there could have been a better way to handle this situation. Obviously people feel strongly otherwise.
But i dont need to parrot my opinions from sportsshooter or any other website.

also, this thread has turned into Media & Arts territory.
Jul 23 2010 1:50PM
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Rez4frederick
Posts: 4740 - Karma: 40
Who gives a shit? I would be stoked if Grenade just used a picture of mine. I wouldn't be demanding money sending them invoices and shit, as long as this guys name is getting out there, he should be stoked. If he really thinks that hes gonna make a living taking pictures then he is mistaken, he should try getting a real job first and work his way into the industry. Its not something that happens over night either. He probably just ruined his chances of ever getting paid for a photo. Im honestly starting to question the skiing/boarding movement, its about fun, not about making money off of every little thing.
Jul 23 2010 1:50PM
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.nasty
Posts: 10581 - Karma: 11,150
grenade is so played anyway. you can tell every poser shredder when driving around because they have a big grenade die-cut on their back windshield. "ohhh this sticker is so sick, now I can look like a super shred" YEAH RIGHT.
Jul 23 2010 1:52PM
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Utard
Posts: 2132 - Karma: 305
This guy gets his pictures used in all sorts of magazines and websites. I'm sure this is nothing new it's just another day, another nickel to him.
Jul 23 2010 1:53PM
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Keyjibbs
Posts: 1542 - Karma: 96
I really hope you are fucking sarcastic. You're saying people can't make a living on doing something you love? There are thousands of people who make a living of photography and this is just one example of how often they get fucked over. Getting your name out there is not going to pay the bills. This dude probably worked his ass of for this photo and "being stoked" it's put on the Grenade site (without notification) isn't compensation. Sending invoices is a business practice that you take to get your money for your work. You are seriously a dumbfuck.
Jul 23 2010 1:55PM
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Rez4frederick
Posts: 4740 - Karma: 40
Yea because snowboarding is hard work. I see photography more as a hobby than something you should get paid for all the time. Who is to say how much money a picture is worth?
Jul 23 2010 1:58PM
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Utard
Posts: 2132 - Karma: 305
The photographer who spend thousands of dollars on his camera, not to mention all the money he spend on getting to the location and all the hard work it took to get the shot.
Jul 23 2010 2:01PM
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Brenone
Posts: 4944 - Karma: 296
interview with the CEO from last year. he was a technology consultant before he came on board as a CEO. the guy has never stepped foot on a snowboard. i could understand if he had some sort of apparel industry or retail or something mildly related to the "business" side of grenade other than snowboarding but he has none of that.
http://www.yobeat.com/2009/11/04/hump-day-throws-a-grenade-at-joseph-condorelli/

even if he is a smart business guy, which im not saying he is or isn't, he should be the new face of the company!
Jul 23 2010 2:02PM
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Rez4frederick
Posts: 4740 - Karma: 40
Exactly, its a hobby, nobody ever said hes gonna get paid to buy all that shit and get way out there in the mountains. Any dumb fucker can buy a camera and start snapping away. Its the people who really put in work over many years who may start to see a little money from a picture. Should I get paid by NS for uploading a picture for others to see?

So you are saying that anytime I click into my skis and someone takes a pic of me in the park, that I should send that person an invoice for being able to take a pic of me? I mean, I bought those skis, paid for a season pass and paid for the gas to get up to the mountain, I should demand money from anyone who graces my presence!
Jul 23 2010 2:07PM
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Brenone
Posts: 4944 - Karma: 296
shouldN'T be the.....
Jul 23 2010 2:12PM
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.jon
Posts: 2121 - Karma: 345
troll???

I sure hope so...
Jul 23 2010 2:15PM
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grams.
Posts: 7406 - Karma: 186
Empire first? Wait we're talking about quality and actual product? Cause thats a joke...
Jul 23 2010 2:15PM
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Utard
Posts: 2132 - Karma: 305
I sincerely hope you are being sarcastic. Nobody is this dumb.

The reason he bought all the expensive shit in the first place was so that he could make money off of doing what he loves. And no, NS doesn't have to pay you because when you signed up for NS you had to agree to the privacy and security contract which states, "Any content that you voluntarily disclose online is publicly available and can be collected, used, and redistributed by others via the internet or any other media outlet."

And when someone takes a picture of you skiing they don't have to pay you because they are the ones that own the picture. US copyright laws are incredibly specific on this type of thing.
Jul 23 2010 2:17PM
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TLTQ
Posts: 525 - Karma: 29

You'd better be TROLLin it up...if not, your comment is rather rediculous. It doesnt work like how you mentioned. Getting pictures taken of you and expecting money from it is obsurd. The only way that would happen  is if you knew the photog and had some kind of deal worked out between the two of you and you get a portion of what ever the photo went for. Assuming that when ever you "click into" your skis, your entittled to getting paid for someone to take pics of shows your ignorance towards the proffession of photography.  

Jul 23 2010 2:30PM
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A_Zuck
Posts: 565 - Karma: 57
just sent this:

http://messerveyphoto.wordpress.com/2010/07/22/me-vs-corporate-america/

Joseph Condorelli and Grenade have now lost a big customer/ supporter of grenade (me). I am going to do everything in my power to spread the word in my school and on my mountain (Breckenridge/ Keystone). I hope this comes back to bite Grenade in the ass and Joseph loses a lot of money. This small conflict that could've been avoided is now going to change the way a lot of people look at this company.
-Adam Zuckerman
Jul 23 2010 2:44PM
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king.tubby
Posts: 2865 - Karma: 122
nope, none....
Jul 23 2010 2:45PM
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hey-dude-its-me
Posts: 4238 - Karma: 412
ok computer nerd
Jul 23 2010 2:55PM
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Midwestjibski
Posts: 1676 - Karma: 77
that Grenade CEO is a jerkoff.  But don't judge all CEO's like that.  The ski industry has some great CEOs.
Jul 23 2010 3:15PM
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Utard
Posts: 2132 - Karma: 305
Yah like Rob Katz.
Jul 23 2010 3:17PM
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canterbury
Posts: 2382 - Karma: 55
one less customer
Jul 23 2010 3:23PM
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OGHolliday
Posts: 2390 - Karma: 2,430
Sounds like a NS argument.
Jul 23 2010 3:23PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Hooray for armchair lawyers on newschoolers.

I have no idea how they will value the claim unless he has evidence so this isn't a liquidated debt that would be easily enforced, but that is the only reason the absence of a contract should hurt him. If he shows up in small claims with that email trail as evidence and evidence showing what he would normally charge in similar situations he'll probably get his scratch.

Meanwhile why would you buy Grenade gloves anyway, Joysticks are better and you're supporting skiing.
Jul 23 2010 3:31PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
File a motherfucking BUILDERS' LIEN on that shit. Cmon do it, just for fun.
Jul 23 2010 3:33PM
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1337
Posts: 31054 - Karma: 29,232
agreed

and that was crazy ignant on the grenade's responses, total bullshit
Jul 23 2010 3:33PM
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EmperorKuzco
Posts: 6660 - Karma: 254
thats gay, their gloves are shitty and rip easily too so suckksss.
Jul 23 2010 3:35PM
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Ian.D
Posts: 1254 - Karma: 1,093
From his interview:

" I am blunt and can be explosive and aggressive —I admit that is where my personality fails."

Well at least he is honest and upfront about it...
Jul 23 2010 3:43PM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18221 - Karma: 12,321

glad i have these:

Click for larger image

Jul 23 2010 3:59PM
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gnarles.
Posts: 2587 - Karma: 130
"I WILL WIN"
Jul 23 2010 5:12PM
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