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7D vs HMC150

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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
alright so im looking to upgrade from my hd canon camcorder, and im just wondering what you guys think between the 7d and HMC150. they are pretty different cameras, especially in that the 7d/dslrs in general have a more shallow depth of field which is pretty good for skiing. but mostly i'd like to know if it's worth the extra $1000 or so for the HMC. my mom has a t1i so I do have a little bit of experience with DSLRs, but I'd just like to know skiing-wise which one of these are a better choice. im getting a glidecam as well so im not that worried about shaky DSLR follow cams/handheld shots.
Jul 7 2010 6:18PM
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Jwenz
Posts: 8893 - Karma: 7,633
well are you planning on setting up every shot and taking your time filming to get a dank shot? if so get a 7d? hmc150 looks fucking ill. dope recording format and films to cheap sd cards which is tight and IMO the footage is no different than hvx, which is fucking ill. i would get a hmc i think but that is because i like to share filming and not put too too much time into it. but a 7d is a lot of work to get what you want.
Jul 7 2010 6:39PM
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Jacuse
Posts: 1792 - Karma: 1,549
I wouldn't say a shallow depth of field is better for skiing. As you probably know there is no auto focus with video so it can be pretty difficult to get a skier in focus. If done right it could look really nice, but like everything else on a dslr it's a lot more time consuming than a regular camcorder and a lot more challenging. Personally I would go with the hmc150 if you want to be filming skiing, maybe see if you can get a used one? I have heard several people regret going the dslr route after using it primarily for filming sports.

It all basically comes down to what you will be using it for the most.
Jul 7 2010 6:44PM
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Sklar
Posts: 8864 - Karma: 31,612
i don't know if in the price difference you figured in accessories for the 7d, glide cam etc. but if you didn't you might want to, there are quite a few threads on the extras that are almost needed with a dslr
Jul 7 2010 6:52PM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
i didnt figure in the gildecam because im getting one no matter what to use with the camera i have now before i get the new one, but i do know that with dslr's im gonna end up spending a lot on a new lens, so the prices will actually end up being really similar after i figure in all the dslr accessories. so at that point it really comes down to the quality each camera is going to put out since the price will be similar. I was watching this years Windells Session videos, which are shot with an hmc, and they look amazing so far. but then again there are a lot of 7d edits that look amazing too.
Jul 7 2010 7:00PM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
i still dont really know which one is better for skiing, but this article seems to make me think it may be the HMC: http://www.skinet.com/skiing/fondue-party/photos-and-movies/2010/07/ski-film-technology-shooting-with-hdslr
Jul 13 2010 1:17PM
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eheath
Posts: 61604 - Karma: 123,113
Kids are gonna buttfuck themselves this winter when they realize its actually kind of difficult to film with a 7d/t2i when skiing. Id suggest an hmc honestly, but thats just me. I believe a video camera is better than a still camera with a video function. Now, like jwenz said, if you want to take your time and learn how to film a good shot, then go for it, but if you want something easier to use, that say your friends could use too, hmc all the way.
Jul 13 2010 2:23PM
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no_steeze
Posts: 23992 - Karma: 4,273
do you want to take pictures as well?
Jul 13 2010 2:44PM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
well my mom has a t1i right now so I can use that for pictures, im mainly looking for video which i know should make me lean for the hmc. but for actual video quality, are they pretty similar? what about the xh-a1s? i've heard that and the hmc are extremely close as well.
Jul 13 2010 2:56PM
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leahey
Posts: 2548 - Karma: 32
If you have the money for the HMC get it, the quality is easily comparable to the HVX and it is much easier to film with then a DSLR.
Jul 13 2010 3:19PM
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1337
Posts: 31054 - Karma: 29,248
have fun editing AVCHD with the hmc150......
Jul 13 2010 3:22PM
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IanAvery-Leaf
Posts: 9931 - Karma: 9,400
AVCHD IS TEH DEVIL!1!1!1!!1!!!!1!!!!1!!11!!1!



but seriously, its the worst common format I can think of
Jul 13 2010 3:26PM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
I already do don't worry about it
Jul 13 2010 4:02PM
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1337
Posts: 31054 - Karma: 29,248
yea its intensive. You better have a fast computer if you want to get srs
Jul 13 2010 4:12PM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
yeah I do
Jul 13 2010 4:13PM
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TomasAa
Posts: 585 - Karma: 699
avchd is not that bad.. Just convert the files before editing if you dont have a fast computer( just like dslr footy)
Jul 13 2010 4:16PM
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ILoveOhio
Posts: 1793 - Karma: 253
You're right, but I find it funny that you're kind of hating on DSLR's now that you're sticking with your HVX.  I'm about to buy an HPX soon, I'm just saying it's funny.
Jul 13 2010 7:32PM
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VT_scratch
Posts: 8786 - Karma: 6,254
heres a couple edits filmed with the hmc 150 if that helps you.. i have no experience with the 7d though.



Jul 13 2010 8:32PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
What? The footage looks way different between the two. The HMC150 is sharper because of the AVCHD codec. But the p2 workflow of the HVX/HPX makes their images significantly better because they record color in 4:2:2.


The thing with DSLRs, is that yo better be on top of your shit when it comes to pulling focus. I mean, get a follow focus system, and practice tracking until you can keep a bullet in focus. It's extremely difficult, and there's a reason why film sets hire people JUST to pull focus while somebody else works the camera. Then there's other neccessities such as monitoring (external LCD monitor or viewfinder is a must), spare batteries, rails, baseplate, etc. Honestly a DSLR setup is going to run you more than an HMC150 setup.
Jul 14 2010 1:36AM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
...since AVCHD is equivalent to h.264 for all intents and purposes. Now that there's fast and easy ways to transcode, AVCHD isn't such a shitty format anymore (minus the 4:2:0 color).
Jul 14 2010 1:38AM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
so is there much of a difference in image quality between the two? They seem pretty similar to me. I just don't want to end up getting the HMC and be wishing I got the 7d.
Jul 14 2010 9:59PM
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LiamMcKinley
Posts: 865 - Karma: 2,771
I got the t2i which is basically the same video as the 7d and im loving it. I havent filmed any skiing yet but i did film a couple basketball games for a friend. Im actaully liking the manual focus for filming sports, its tough at first but as long as you put some time and effort into it it can really pay off. I went with the t2i over the hmc40 and im pretty pumped on it.
Jul 14 2010 10:21PM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
yeah theyre just so close that i dont know how to decide. plus im a little interested in the xh-a1s which is pretty similar to the HMC. anyone used that? all 3 of these cameras are just so similar that im gonna have to pick one and hope it works out
Jul 15 2010 10:50AM
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1337
Posts: 31054 - Karma: 29,248
No on the XH-A1s. Yes it is a good camera, but the technology is outdated (cough shitty tapes cough) It just creates more problems and takes more time than its worth. Other cons include 1080i (60i, 24F and 30F) and moving parts, which can lead to trouble down the road.

Jul 15 2010 12:17PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
xh-a1 is garbage. Don't buy anything with tapes.
Jul 15 2010 3:25PM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
alright well thanks for the xh-a1 advice, it was my least favorite anyway because of the tapes, now i wont get it for sure. now its still between the 7d and hmc. im sort of leaning towards the hmc.. anyone own one and have any advice?
Jul 15 2010 11:02PM
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LiamMcKinley
Posts: 865 - Karma: 2,771
id say just go with the hmc then.
Jul 15 2010 11:59PM
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miroz
Posts: 10333 - Karma: 3,945
The shDOF of the 7D is quite appealing - however, there are a lot of things that make it not-so-suited for filming skiing. A little bit of research into its flaws and you'd know why. I think there are a couple articles over on dvxuser.com that outline them.
Jul 16 2010 12:26AM
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CoachG
Posts: 2546 - Karma: 448
They don't "have" shallow depth of field, it's something that is achieved through settings and lens quality. If anything you'd want a large depth of field for shooting skiing, especially if you're planning on shooting with a glidecam.
Jul 16 2010 11:21AM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
nope. Shallow DOF is due to the size of the sensor, not the settings or lens quality (although the speed of the lens dictates the DOF).
Jul 16 2010 7:05PM
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kfilenda
Posts: 509 - Karma: 72
Ease of filming goes to the hmc150, if you are on a pc converting the native .mts files is critical however, you do get full audio control on hmc150 and it has two xlr inputs. I think the price difference is the key, when I used the hmc150 it was off bh for $4000 as a kit with a bag an better quality mic. If you have that kind of money then I would get it. However paying $1000 for the t2i and two lenses you get essentially the same video quality for a fourth of the price but with less (or no) manual audio controls. As far as filming skiing goes, I have not used a 7d/t2i but the hmc150 performed well, the adjustable nd filters on it came in handy and it was pretty lightweight (3.7 lbs.)
Jul 16 2010 8:44PM
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CoachG
Posts: 2546 - Karma: 448
yeah that's what i meant, aperture is a setting isn't it?
Jul 16 2010 11:28PM
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eheath
Posts: 61604 - Karma: 123,113
yeah but even at f11 you have a much shallower DOF than a normal video camera.
Jul 17 2010 4:26AM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
A DSLR rig is going to cost more than an hmc150. Buying a video camera would be the cheaper and easier approach because they are more developed, and don't rely on fancy rigging modifications in order for it to be a decent camera.
Jul 17 2010 3:20PM
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kfilenda
Posts: 509 - Karma: 72
you could build one for cheap, or invest that money in better glass.
Jul 26 2010 4:55PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
better glass = $$$

Aside from a couple gems you may stumble upon for under $200, you're going to be spending $700+ per good lens. Then there's audio, stabilization, monitoring, etc.
Jul 26 2010 11:42PM
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freestyledork
Posts: 345 - Karma: 17
I personally just had to decide between the two, I ended up going with the HMC150. I'm definitely happy with it. I looked at both for about 2 months. The 7d body only coming in at right over $1,500, would end up costing more then the HMC150, which is on sale at B&H for $3,279,  once you buy the lenses and kit gear you need to get the shots you want. some nice Ziess lenses would easily set you back a couple grand. Then you need a follow focus those are around $500 get some rails to put it on another 500$ and a LCD to viewfinder cap just adds to it. All in all I would say an Ideal 7d set up would cost around $5,000. Then you have to think about anyone else using it. I don't know about you but, my friends aren't nearly as into video as I am. I could see nothing but problems if I wasn't the one using the camera.  With the HMC you get the servo Zooms, the focus ring, all the presets, and easy of use. Not to say you cant get similar shots with the HMC as the 7d. Buying a DoF adapter would give you close to the same image quality as a 7d. That being said, it would be hard to ski with a HMC fully loaded rig. In the end it came to ease of use the HMC is way easier to run and gun... give to your friends and have them use. Not to say in a year you couldn't sell the HMC and buy a 7d. I'd imagine the HMC is going to hold its value well. just my thoughts.. take it or leave it.
Jul 27 2010 2:03PM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
Yeah as of now I think it's gonna be the HMC when I get the money. I only have 1-2 friends that know anything about video, and I don't usually ski with them, so there's no way my friends would know how to handle the 7D. And overall because of price the HMC seems like a better option.
Jul 27 2010 2:59PM
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MADDECENT
Posts: 5579 - Karma: 951
Why not?
Jul 28 2010 1:25PM
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1337
Posts: 31054 - Karma: 29,248
tapes are an outdated medium, DV codec blows, its a pain in the ass to import in real time, moving parts suck in the cold, the moving parts are very susceptible to shock and sudden movement, the list goes on....
Jul 28 2010 2:02PM
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Alkyy
Posts: 2839 - Karma: 149

The xh is getting hated on.  The only thing that i really wished the xh had was 60p.  I like the controles on the camera body way more then any other camera ive used.  Tapes are good and bad, yes it sucks importing at real time,  But when your roomated does something stupid like delete 70 hours of footage off the hard drive when he was trying to back it up on another one, you arnt shit out of luck.  Idealy id like to get a fire store or something for it but that wont happen.

For me when i got the xh it was a debate between that and the hmc150 the xh won out for the sole reason that my computer would never have been able to handel avchd.  If yours can then the hmc150 is the way to go

Jul 28 2010 2:43PM
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MANDER
Posts: 4017 - Karma: 2,038
I had the exact same dilemma about a month ago. I actually bought the HMC and then returned it 2 days later for the 7d. The week I got the 7d, I filmed my friend racing cars and my friend biking. Both days rained, and the biking day poured harder then I have ever seen before. Thank god I had the 7d and a Canon L series lens which has water proofing on it too. If I had the t2i or HMC150, my camera would have been broken. Sometimes you will feel like picking up an HMC and pressing record getting you a pretty good image, but if you work hard at learning your 7d and getting some quality lenses and accesories, it will outperform the HMC150 and tons of other cameras that are much more expensive. I would say get the 7d, unless you are filming 100% skiing, then you dont really need everything the 7d has to offer.
Jul 28 2010 9:08PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
...no native progressive framerates...
Jul 29 2010 12:44AM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
why thank you for the advice, still haven't bought either yet since I don't quite have the money, but hopefully I will by christmas. this is a pretty late response but i just felt the need to bump in case anyone out there has anything else to say about it
Aug 24 2010 1:12PM
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1337
Posts: 31054 - Karma: 29,248
buy an hmc150 and I'll trade you my t2i setup for it.
Aug 24 2010 1:51PM
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IanAvery-Leaf
Posts: 9931 - Karma: 9,400
woah Jamie, didn't see that coming....why the switch?
Aug 24 2010 2:30PM
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miroz
Posts: 10333 - Karma: 3,945
Sarcasm or no?
Aug 24 2010 2:35PM
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IanAvery-Leaf
Posts: 9931 - Karma: 9,400
I can't tell
Aug 24 2010 2:42PM
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miroz
Posts: 10333 - Karma: 3,945
Me either. I iz confyouzed yessir.
Aug 24 2010 2:48PM
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1337
Posts: 31054 - Karma: 29,248
I"LL NEVAR TELL MUAHAHAHAHAHA
Aug 24 2010 2:58PM
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IanAvery-Leaf
Posts: 9931 - Karma: 9,400
dammit Jamie
TELL US
Aug 24 2010 3:00PM
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