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Support Your Local Shops?

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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,898
First, let me be very clear about this - this is not a thread about bashing internet shops.  I believe they serve a huge purpose to a lot customers in our industry, most obviously for those who could not otherwise find the gear they want locally.

This thread is mainly about exercising good form and not being a douche.  I see a lot of NSers talk about going in to a shop to try on boots with the purpose of buying it later online to save a buck.  This sucks.  And you're hurting our industry.  (There is a difference between doing this vs. trying on boots but no local shop has your size so you have to buy it online in order to get the boot you want.)   I say all this not just because I used to run a shop and am therefore biased, but because of the simple fact that it wastes people's time, professional training, valuable experience, and one of the main points of having a shop to begin with - so you can go in and physically try/test/drool on the gear you want. 

As a professional boot-fitter, nothing is more frustrating than having spent over an hour with someone, tried on every boot on the wall and found the perfect boot for their feet, only to never see them in the store again because they went home and bought the exact boot somewhere else, usually for cheaper.  Boots are usually full price in shops because shops need to recover the cost of the fitting process - this is what you are ultimately paying for.  If you want to pay less, just buy it online without ANY of the fitting process.  That's what's fair, in my opinion, because you get what you pay for.  Go to your favorite shop, pay regular price, get the boot you dreamed of with a boot-fit guarantee to back it up.  Get it for cheaper online, you save a bit of cash but you get what you deserve- little to no service to back it up.

Luckily, for most of the year, most prices are the same online vs. shops.  But once things start to go on sale and you've tried on the boot you love, ask the shop if they'll match the online price.  Your local shops want and need your business.  In fact, you could argue that they need it now more than ever.
Jun 30 2010 3:28PM
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.jesus.
Posts: 2288 - Karma: 22
i agree don't waste a boot fitters time if the boot you want fit just buy them there and help out a local shop
Jun 30 2010 3:29PM
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arandomname
Posts: 1989 - Karma: 18

Thank you, I have always thought the same.  I buy everything from my shop except for skis and bindings, because I got ON3P skis, and Head Mojo bindings, and literally the only bindings my local shop had were Salomon Z10s, Marker Griffon, and some telemark bindings.  But I always, always, always, buy boots from my local shop.  Thank you for making this thread.

Jun 30 2010 3:35PM
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RobertBB
Posts: 623 - Karma: 16
Agree!
Buying boots from your local shop is so much better.
Buying skis and other stuff from the local stuff is much better to if you break it in some way.

Jun 30 2010 3:35PM
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-Dan
Posts: 7130 - Karma: 51,757
I
Jun 30 2010 3:38PM
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-Dan
Posts: 7130 - Karma: 51,757
less-than-three
ski
rack
Jun 30 2010 3:38PM
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panojibber
Posts: 3382 - Karma: 216
Haven't bought new/full price gear in a while now, only thing I've bought from a shop in the last couple of years were boots. One pair of skis from a sample sale, one used, one through pro deal. Avi gear through pro deal, outerwear used or through warehouse sales (guess that counts for local shops).

If I'm getting new gear though I'll initially try to get my hands on a crazy deal, whether its through used or pro deal or whatever. If I buy from a retailer though, I always try to support the smaller shops.
Jun 30 2010 4:12PM
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VCharette
Posts: 4276 - Karma: 1,047
Agreed always support the local shops.
Jun 30 2010 4:19PM
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ski_DC
Posts: 1347 - Karma: 58
i buy everything from backcountry, and then shamelessly abuse their return policy by getting a brand new pair of boots each season, for free. lol.

kidding. support your shops. but i do love backcountry with all my heart and soul.
Jun 30 2010 4:20PM
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matt.rad
Posts: 1813 - Karma: 303
amen
Jun 30 2010 6:30PM
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Funnel
Posts: 7815 - Karma: 1,531
Word. I am getting Armada skis this year and that's one of the few twin tip brands my shop carries, so I decided to buy through them. I love to support my local shop. They have always been really helpful. However, when I went to Tahoe in February, I dropped by Porter's (one of the few FT dealers in the state) to try on some Full Tilts just to see how they fit. They fit me better than any other boot I had tried on. I could not buy them right there, so the guy told me "It's cool, just try and buy them through us later." That is what I did, except they were out of stock, so unfortunately I had to go somewhere else. Seriously though, kids aren't buying enough stuff through their local shops. If they have the skis you want, buy from them. Hell, if you get to know some uys in there and you're a nice kid, they'll usually give you a discount anyways.
Jun 30 2010 7:04PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,898
I'm glad a lot of you on here see the importance of this, because the absolute fact remains that without your support local shops will not survive.  I know it's almost impossible to get everything you want from your shop, but thanks for showing them support and doing what you can.
Jul 1 2010 1:46PM
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Scrambles
Posts: 2270 - Karma: 63
I always buy stuff through local shops unless it's a brand that they don't carry.
Jul 1 2010 2:20PM
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.Asain-Skiier
Posts: 3708 - Karma: 977
thanks for say all that. Now I might actually get boots that fit me.
Jul 1 2010 2:23PM
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smooter
Posts: 1121 - Karma: 1,368
the only thing ive bought from my local shop is boots and bindings, they literally carry nothing because they don't get enought business.
Jul 1 2010 5:00PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
if i can get it from a shop close to me I will
Jul 1 2010 5:10PM
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willyg0808
Posts: 4231 - Karma: 1,364
i love my local shop!  aspenskiandboard.com .  everyone who works there is super chill and whatever you want they will get it to you.  they are always willing to hook you up too, no matter who you are.
Jul 1 2010 6:02PM
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blackoutbill
Posts: 2918 - Karma: 282
Unfortunately it's like this in every industry. I work as a tech in a local pharmacy. People come in asking for advice on drugs all the time and then go get their prescriptions by mail order or from walmart, screwing over the local pharmacy. The op is totally right. The small premium payed goes to the service recieved.

Another anecdote: I just bought a new roadbike and the stem is too long. I could go online, buy a stem hoping it's the right size and pay around $80. Or I could support my local bike shop and get the right sized stem for $95. I hate dealing with the hassle of shipping so I always buy from my local shop

Ever since jibij closed, I haven't had a good shop within 100 miles of where I live so I am forced to buy skis from online retailers. I do try and support local companies like Moment and surface though and will probably buy a pair of ON3P's soley on the fact that local companies usually have the best customer service
Jul 2 2010 12:19AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,898
That's a super good point too.  You can only live within your own means, so no one can fault you for that.  And my point wasn't to say never shop online, but more about blatantly wasting a salesperson's expertise and time.  But at the end of the season, if your shop doesn't have any left on sale, you gotta do what you gotta do. 

I would help kids out all the time, regardless if we had the ski or boot or whatever in stock or not.  If someone asked for my opinion on the Prophet 100, I would totally give them info on it.  It's not the customer's fault we're out of the ski.
Jul 2 2010 11:38AM
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-Marc-
Posts: 865 - Karma: 207
the sweet thing about going into a local shop is knowing the people who work there. every time i walk into my local ski store the owners always say hi to me, and sometimes will even give me special deals depending on what im buying. i have huge respect for guys that put all there time and money into running there own store, and are still willing to give a friend a good deal on a product. its alot better of an experience than buying online, because you get to see the product in person, and its also going to keep the store around for alot longer
Jul 2 2010 4:00PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
Thank you. That needed to be said.
Jul 2 2010 5:16PM
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BerGNARdo
Posts: 406 - Karma: 44
the last pair of skis i bought were from a local shop that stopped carrying that brand months after i got the skis and said there was nothing at all they could do when i needed them warrantied. I then brought them to another local shop which tried to charge me a $25 handling fee plus shipping to send them back after assuring me there was no way they'd be covered by the warranty and that i was wasting my money. i finally took them to the rei store where they sent them in, without charging me for even the shipping, and told me a few days later they could either replace the skis or give me $300 cash (only a little less than i bought them for).

Im definitely not a fan of wasting people's time but at least where i live a lot of local shops really cant compete with big stores or online. smaller selection of stuff, costs more, and in my case, no help when the product failed.

please no hate.
Jul 2 2010 6:47PM
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meeesh
Posts: 353 - Karma: 56
Agreed. I wont say my shop is the most premiere, but we have excellent service and very qualified people. I totally will go out of my way to boot fit/tech to give the local feeling and show the professionalism that we (can) have. I definitely try to hook up the local kids as much as possible, I can always hook up a deal on whatever they need. I didn't have a jig wide enough to mount said Mojos on ON3Ps, so I didn't charge the kid and ghetto freehanded it with him overseeing the whole operation. I hate the middle aged women who come in, try on 5 pairs of boots, talk about foot beds and then say their going to keep looking. F OFF!
Jul 2 2010 7:56PM
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.cam.
Posts: 1852 - Karma: 48
i dont think i have ever bought anything ski related on line.
Jul 3 2010 6:40PM
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hollygrove
Posts: 7845 - Karma: 93
Fuck it, the 40-50 year old's can support all the local shops they want, but I'm always low on money and I'm going to search for the best deals I can.
Jul 3 2010 6:52PM
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littlejwigs
Posts: 523 - Karma: 24
i think you are right like if i worked some were and some kid came in and wasted my time just to buy it online i would be fucking mad i also think that usually buying something online doesnt really save you that much, you also have to wait awhile and if you just buy online eventually there will be no ski shops to go try on there boots
Jul 4 2010 12:50AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,898
Again, this isn't about getting deals or not getting deals.  I'm not made of money either. Get all the deals you want, just don't waste someone's time and experience to get it.
Jul 4 2010 3:31AM
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Lemuel
Posts: 14489 - Karma: 10,640
Boots are the one thing I will never buy online and will always pay more for. I always go to a shop to try on boots, and I go to multiple shops because they don't all have the same boots. Then I buy the exact boots I tried on, not the same boot same size. Skis and everything else is a different story, the shops empty your wallets on mounts anyway.
Jul 4 2010 10:10AM
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Blake.P
Posts: 9894 - Karma: 3,585
My local shop is evo so I can buy in store or online and still support them
Jul 4 2010 12:51PM
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mattdayro
Posts: 386 - Karma: -5
I would buy from my local shop but its comor and its shit expensive
Jul 4 2010 12:53PM
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.cam.
Posts: 1852 - Karma: 48
i got lucky with buying from local shops. our shops have fair prices plus my grandfather is good friends with all the ski shop owners near us so we get a discount
Jul 4 2010 12:56PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Word.
Jul 4 2010 4:43PM
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dangerdad
Posts: 2228 - Karma: 317
and the damned truth is, ain't no one gettin rich in the alpine retail business, no one.

bout on that note....support what you benefit from, and there is nothing you benefit more from than a well fit set of boots.
Jul 5 2010 5:30PM
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-ROY-
Posts: 3633 - Karma: 1,503
i totally agree with you..but my shop is gay as shit. their boot variety is shit. they sell like only one brand of binding. and the staff pretty much sucks. ok selection of skis i guess
Jul 5 2010 5:39PM
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wintersway
Posts: 5115 - Karma: 128
boots are always from local shops, you have to be a douche to have them fit you and then go buy them online. skis and binding though, i go for online because local shops just dont care much for twin tips other than the popular cheaper ones like invaders, silencers, or suspects
Jul 5 2010 7:40PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,898
Have you mentioned/suggested to your local shop how they should/could expand their selection?  Sometimes shops aren't very receptive to new ideas (and they will fail because of it) but more often than not most shops are very welcoming to new ideas which would keep your business.  Like anything, do it politely and with respect and if enough people ask about it or for it, unless your shop is truly retarded, you will see it in there.
Jul 10 2010 5:59PM
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factory81
Posts: 3967 - Karma: 63
I disagree here somewhat.....

Brick and mortar stores need to adapt. Skis.com is owned by a ski shop in Michigan of all places....and they are able to compete, locally, and online.

B&M stores in your position should consider this.


There are a few reasons to order on the internet

1. Tax reasons
2. lower cost


Now you realize if we buy a pair of boots on the net, and we are not an accomplished boot fitter, we will have to come to you...and pay you for your time and labor to tune my boots to my feet. (and lets face it, as a b&m store not selling on the internet, you aren't making much profit on product). Another downside is paying for shipping, which can sometimes be a rip-off on the internet.

I am just saying....a lot of stores complain about losing to high volume online stores, while trying to maintain that nice and small mom & pop atmosphere.


And lastly, just how many boots are cheaper on the internet? I enjoy my dalbello boots, and I couldn't have saved a penny on my boots if I had bought them on the internet (when I was purchasing them). Now obviously as the season progressed and these online retailers had inventory to clear they marked theirs down to points below where my boots cost, but thats different. And specials should be had to stay competitive.

If I spent that much time with a customer doing sales I would say "sir/ma'am, is there any reason you are not buying these boots today, or anything i can do to change your mind"

Aka, find the reason they are walking away when they seem to know they want the boots, and you feel they are going on to the 'net to try and find this stuff, and try and do anything to flip a pair of boots.

I say this jokingly but, too many retail shops are in the business of storing merchandise more than selling it. They refuse to adjust their prices despite what the competition does. Kind of like house values in a sense....they won't admit the loss that you can buy their $595 skis for $299 on evogear.com at the year end. When they could offer to sell them for $350 mounted with a pair of bindings they provide or purchase (they make some money on the mount, the consumer considers $25 to ship product, and he has to pay to get them mounted anyways, so why not just get them today). Shop owner moves product, and has more money to buy more inventory.

Maybe not with the 63% markup they wish to have, but the still make a profit.

Mark-up let me tell ya!

Marker brakes! $60 for a pair, are you kidding me? You guys have to make a killing on these......


Jul 10 2010 7:03PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6657 - Karma: 10,898
I think you missed the point of my thread, which was don't waste a shop employee's time, not don't support internet shops.  Never once did I say don't shop online, only shop in brick and mortar locations.  Hell, every ski shop has an online store, so did shop I came from.  My point was don't blatantly misuse a sale's persons time and expertise when looking for boots (or any product for that matter)- support those who tried to help you, that's all I was saying.

As for the Marker brakes, the only people making serious money on them is Marker.  They (and every other binding manufacturer) charge a ton for them, which means the shop has to as well if they want to make money.  It's not like they sell them to a shop for $5 and shops turn around and sells them for $60.  Also, the average boot margin (overall for the calendar year) is a little over 30%.
Jul 10 2010 7:15PM
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Deletedtoday
Posts: 4060 - Karma: 398
have a very very little impact the industry or kill my wallet?

the answer is obvious
Jul 10 2010 8:36PM
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arandomname
Posts: 1989 - Karma: 18
Yeah, it's obvious you're selfish.  So you're saying you're going to go to a store, trying on some nice new boots, have the bootfitter test you out, get the right boot for you, and when that's all said and done, you're going to leave and buy those boots online for cheaper?  Yeah, that's kind of a dick move on your part.
Jul 10 2010 9:20PM
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no_steeze
Posts: 23992 - Karma: 4,272
i understand what you're saying about wasting a tech's time, that's bitchy, but a lot of us make very little money and don't have $750 to blow on boots. yes they retail online for the same price as in shops but in reality you can always find things for a couple hundred bucks cheaper online

all of the gear i use is not carried by my local shop, eventhough i'm working with them to start stocking some good ski shit, but stuff i'm looking for isn't even available in shops. if i lived in burlington i'd come and buy boots from you at skirack, but i don't have the options like that so i buy shit online
Jul 10 2010 9:28PM
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Deletedtoday
Posts: 4060 - Karma: 398
Hey I'v done that before. I was blessed to have my shop hook me up.Most All employees understand when you have someone at my age whos working for all my ski gear wanting to save a couple hundred bucks. selfish? no. smart? yes
Jul 10 2010 9:28PM
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arandomname
Posts: 1989 - Karma: 18

Well then the guys at your shop are cool.  If I worked at a shop, I wouldn't want a 12 year old kid to come in, look at $750 skis boots, have them fitted for him, have him try on different sizes, and find out the right size for him, just for him to leave and by the but for $400 from backcountry or evogear or some other online shop.

Jul 10 2010 11:36PM
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Willard
Posts: 5117 - Karma: 429
Went in to my local shop told them i wasnt to intrested in the line models this year but that i wanted to support them. He asked me what i was looking at. I told him the patents and he said that atomic was trying to get into the Whiteroom(shop). So now he is gonna get in contact with the rep and set up a good deal for me. So now im paying less than the sites online and im still supporting the guys that are shredding right next to me.
Jul 11 2010 1:42AM
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KnobJockey
Posts: 797 - Karma: 37
i agree 100% i would much rather buy boots in a store than online
Jul 11 2010 2:01AM
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Deletedtoday
Posts: 4060 - Karma: 398
I guess its a little different because my shop is evogear haha
Jul 11 2010 2:05AM
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ReetsAdeets
Posts: 1531 - Karma: 611
A lot of the shops offer price matches as well, so if yours does, do that before you buy off the interwebs.
Jul 11 2010 2:17AM
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adamlukowski
Posts: 3676 - Karma: 311
with getboards getting all this next years stuff already people are probably buying/preordering like crazy becuase there so eager., but i'm gonna wait for my local shop becuase its waaay more fun when you go somewhere, see it the product in person, try it on, and get to leave with it that day. And besides i only need to wait until august! not too long
Jul 11 2010 3:53AM
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arandomname
Posts: 1989 - Karma: 18

Haha then you're lucky.  My shop has a good selection of boots and that's it.  For bindings they have the Salomon Z10, the Marker Griffon, and some telemarketing binding.  And their ski selection is shit too because all they have is the lower end twin tips from Line, Salomon, and K2.  But they have like a huge variety of boots.  If Evogear was near me, I would never go to any other shop.

Jul 11 2010 1:49PM
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steezilicious
Posts: 130 - Karma: 15

i only buy wax, gloves and boots from my local shop because they dont even carry twintips or good bindings.

Jul 11 2010 3:58PM
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