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Thank You Mr. President.

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The_Future
Posts: 1418 - Karma: 607

I hope I wasn't the only one who just watched his speech from the oval office.  Although he didn't give the most detailed information about what is being done at the gulf coast, I did appreciate him addressing our need for change in the energy industry.  He made it clear that he will not listen to those who advocate that our dependence on fossil fuels is too great of a challenge to overcome.  I agree with him %110 when he said that all change comes with a cost and even though it will be expensive to reform our bad energy use habits, it is most definitely worth the cost of changing now.  Because if we don't change the environmental, national security, and future economic costs will be much more significant.  I don't like political threads, but I was about 99% behind the president on everything he said tonight... just curious what other people thought of his speech.

Jun 15 2010 8:35PM
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pmw
Posts: 5760 - Karma: 831
haha talk is fucking cheap.
Jun 15 2010 10:35PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
Good post, very useful information in here. Thank you.
Jun 15 2010 10:35PM
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TheClap.
Posts: 21664 - Karma: 4,140
He isnt making BP do shit,BP has already stated more then ones thatthey are going to pay for everything and that it is their fault and they will cover all the feed

Obama is a fuck, all change but no action

And fuck you Obama for making people without health insurance pay a fine,really hoep the HC system is chaged before this takes action

Jun 15 2010 10:36PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
And yet another vague, useless post.

Thanks for playing, Spork.
Jun 15 2010 10:37PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
If you honestly believe BP would have cleaned up the oil spill and compensated families that were affected on their own, you must be living in crazy town.

They wanted to pay $10.5 billion in dividends this year!
Jun 15 2010 10:40PM
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dex.
Posts: 2973 - Karma: 62
are you ohmybosh?
Jun 15 2010 10:41PM
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Arabian.
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 55
There is a reason why Obama said a third-party enforcement system would be put in place to handle all legitimate claims. I would never trust BP to give that compensation freely and completely, and I'm glad Obama is handling it as such. A third party should expedite the processes significantly; no corporate "I'll get to it in a year or two" payouts.
Jun 15 2010 10:44PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
Exactly. I remember reading an article the detailed accounts of people who never received a dime from Exxon. We should learn from that accident and force BP to remain responsible.

Then again, if corporate responsibility was more than a facade, this accident never would have happened.
Jun 15 2010 10:47PM
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pmw
Posts: 5760 - Karma: 831
useless in the sense that you cant dispute or argue it?

vague? ha. you dont always need to narrow your statement down to the nitty gritty to not be considered vague. i stated talk is cheap, which in obamas case especially, it is.

are you one of obamas fan boys who believes in all the sunshine and daisies that he spews? im very undecided in my political views, and wont even pretend i know enough to carry on in a lengthy, useless argument with you on the matter, but i do know obama is fantastic at filling the average dimwit with hope and belief in a better future, which is half the battle. the other half as accomplishing what you speak of, and lets face it, politicians arent the best at sticking to their campaign slogans.

you see i made my post in hopes not to get tied up in what is probably a political shitstorm, but so much for that.
and fuck off, ill post what i want.
Jun 15 2010 10:50PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
If you don't know much about the topic, just say it. I'm not singling you out, I mentioned it to other people on the last page.

I realize this is NS, and political threads never get far, but posting comments like that don't defuse the situation. In my opinion, they only make it worse.

Next time, just say something like "I don't follow it closely, but I hope Obama pulls through on this promise, unlike some of the others he made in his campaign"
Jun 15 2010 10:53PM
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thugaim
Posts: 2181 - Karma: 33
I am just curious as to what people who are bitching about Obama's handling of this situation expect him to be doing?

Theres plenty of things you can fault Obama on, but i dont see how this is one of them.
Jun 15 2010 10:57PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
And these sunshine and daisies were in fact very nice sunshine(s) and daisies. In his speech, he stressed the need for BP to pay back families affected by the spill. In my opinion, that is a good thing. Also, he stressed reducing lobbying in the MMS. But his main focus was to continue investing in alternative energy.
Jun 15 2010 10:57PM
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Darth_Veeder
Posts: 1054 - Karma: -26
my threads.
Jun 15 2010 10:58PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
Grass is always greener, although I do agree.
Jun 15 2010 10:58PM
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pmw
Posts: 5760 - Karma: 831
phew you arent a dick head.

well of course i hope to god obama pulls through on this statement. im beyond skeptical that it is as high on the agenda as this thread made it seem (i skimmed it briefly, im just inferring that it isnt) and i dont think the process will be as rapid or effective as we/he hope/believe it will be, but he hit the nail on the head recognizing that it needs to begin now. although it should have began as soon as we figured out the detrimental effects of our fossil fuel usage.
Jun 15 2010 10:59PM
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Black-Bandanna
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 1,603
LOL at how Obama tricked a nation. Dude's all talk.
Jun 15 2010 10:59PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
Just curious again, how did he trick a nation? Are you referring to his campaign? Or this speech?
Jun 15 2010 11:02PM
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Thenowhereman42
Posts: 5682 - Karma: 65
Did not say anything useful. Did not address the energy crisis at all. HURRDURR lets stop using fuel is just retarded. There isn't any point in switching to hybrids when they are worse for the environment anyway. There isn't any point in switching to biofuel when they are just going to knock down the rain forest to make corn fields to get ethanol (look that shit up). We need more government control & incentives, and more corporate accountability "lets not use fossile fuels so much k gaize?" is not a solution.
Jun 15 2010 11:06PM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
im gonna go ahead and assume he's referring to the part where Obama told us what he was gonna do, and hasn't done shit. but that could just be me.
Jun 15 2010 11:07PM
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H8CH
Posts: 2709 - Karma: 218
Thanks - and No i am absolutely not against alternative energy. As i posted further up, i have worked on engineering a prototype, subsea tidal generator.... it was the hardest thing ever......

Alternatives are obviously the future, and they are great - but what i am trying to get across to you is that - im not against them, NOBODY is... the fact of the matter is simply this - economies of scale.

If i own a ranch in sunny California, I can run all my power needs on Solar and wind, but only just.... I could have a huge area of solar panels, and a couple of wind turbines to power my ranch and my Air Conditioning. Now take that ratio of required space, investment, maintenance etc etc vs power production (minus losses in transmission...).... let alone if i wanted to use solar in say, Aberdeen Scotland.. where it's never sunny! you start to understand the problem.

Now - for me personally, the future of Clean power production, and im talking electricity here, in the USA is Natural Gas. It's abundant onshore, therefore very cheap, and it burns very very efficiently and cleanly. If the US could harness that, and build a huge national pipeline grid to transport it around the country to fuel very clean, efficient power stations... then no more coal (Clean coal is a myth, no such thing IMO).... and if you "spill" it (i.e. a leak) - it just evaporates.... obviously less risky then nuclear.

In the mountains, Hydro Electric works very well, look at Switzerland. Huge dammed reservoirs up high, power generating turbines down low.... say hello to mr gravity.... but is VERY costly to set up given the engineering required, and also has a BIG environmental impact visually and ecologically... plus if you lose a dammed reservoir up high, the risks to human life and property are obviously high.

Wind - rocks, again IMO - but people hate windfarms??... plus, ironically - any idea how much oil it takes to build and actually maintain a giant windfarm? From lubrication to paints to plastics etc etc.... and large scale, they're too inefficient.

It's like a very very complex mathematical equation that is very very difficult to balance.

As for the rest of the world, they are streets ahead in terms of reducing their consumption fossil fuels... they have become much more efficient at using the oil they do, and even recycling it where possible.... The USA is highly inefficient when it comes to oil consumption... putting V8's in everything is unnecessary... the first step in all this is try to use less.... and use it more economically. Then the second step is supplementation - power generation from alternatives, new materials based on synthetic materials.... etc etc... we need to ween ourselves off it slowly.... you cannot go on tv and say right, that's it - we're done with this shit... :-)
Jun 15 2010 11:09PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
"Each of us has a part to play in a new future that will benefit all of us. As we recover from this recession, the transition to clean energy has the potential to grow our economy and create millions of good, middle-class jobs – but only if we accelerate that transition."

"When I was a candidate for this office, I laid out a set of principles that would move our country towards energy independence. Last year, the House of Representatives acted on these principles by passing a strong and comprehensive energy and climate bill – a bill that finally makes clean energy the profitable kind of energy for America’s businesses.

Now, there are costs associated with this transition. And some believe we can’t afford those costs right now. I say we can’t afford not to change how we produce and use energy – because the long-term costs to our economy, our national security, and our environment are far greater."

To me, thats more than HURDUR. Yeah, he didn't say "By 2020, we need this amount of wind turbines and this amount of solar panels", because that is ridiculous.

Although I do agree on your statement about corporate accountability. Corporate responsibility is trend that is going to make and break corporations.
Jun 15 2010 11:13PM
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Black-Bandanna
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 1,603
Should have clarified. Campaign. 
Jun 15 2010 11:15PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
Again, with the vagueness. If you have a problem with Obama and his plan, express your belief! Delphi and minnesota and everyone else have no problem doing it.

What I'm saying is if you are going to bash Obama, explain your reasoning - it will help the argument.
Jun 15 2010 11:16PM
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thugaim
Posts: 2181 - Karma: 33
http://www.ted.com/talks/bill_gates.html


^Interesting talk by Bill Gates on clean energy etc.

He mentiones how nuclear energy could be the key. They have basically developed a reactor that can use the waste from old reactors to produce more energy. This means clean energy with no toxic waste and virtually non-existant risk.
Jun 15 2010 11:18PM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
I'm not bashing, I'm simply saying he is not a man of his word. Why take the time to write an intelligent argument on an online skiing community forum? It's not worth my time, and I've got finals to study for. Maybe after this week I'll come back to this thread and explain what's up.
Jun 15 2010 11:23PM
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Black-Bandanna
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 1,603
Well for one, one of his main campaigning tools was his promise of trimming the fat from Congress' bills.  He approved a $410 million dollar bill with over 8,000 earmarks. lolwut

I really have no interest in getting involved in this thread though. I'm tired, I have an episode of Lie to Me to watch (coincidental haha), and I have said all I wanted to in here.
Jun 15 2010 11:24PM
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.Natty.
Posts: 1030 - Karma: 84
I honestly dont know what all these people who bitch about obamas talk and lack of action expect him to be doing. If you think its anything out of the ordinary for a president to talk about action during their campaign and then not do very much as president then you're an idiot. Promising things is a huge part of any presidential campaign and its part of winning any election.

Back to my main point I would just like to know what the people who bitch about obama expect him to be doing, theres really only so much you can do as a president. Were you guys actually expecting him to come into office and all of a sudden everything was gonna change. I know thats what he promised but did you guys actually expect anything out of it?

Quit bitching about obama and try to implement change yourself. And for those of you who are gonna ask me what ive done, nothing yet besides the fact that i live a pretty green lifestyle (recycling 40mph car etc.) But I plan to do all I can in the future. I'm going to college for Mechanical and/or Environmental Engineering and I plan to work on technology to improve the efficiencies of green power sources.

sparknotes: be realistic about how much one person can do even if they are the president and stop bitching

Jun 15 2010 11:27PM
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H8CH
Posts: 2709 - Karma: 218
Nuclear is absolutely the "Cleanest" form of electricity production - even Greenpeace admit this!

But no waste? Yes im afraid all nuclear reactors produce varying levels of radioactive waste - and this all get's buried deep under ground, usually in lead lined concrete bunkers, sealed for eternity... now if that isn't out of sight, out of mind..... But this is relatively small in volume compared to the power produced by a nuclear reactor....

it's all give and take. I personally don't like the idea of radiation... at least with an oil spill you can see it.

Radiation persists for centuries, and enters the food chains, the atmosphere... travels the globe. The fall out from chernobyl effected the UK and most of northern Europe... .
Jun 15 2010 11:30PM
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Thenowhereman42
Posts: 5682 - Karma: 65
"Each of us has a part to play in a new future that will benefit all of us. "

Ok well...that doesn't actually mean anything. We play a part in our future.....cool i guess

"As we recover from this recession, the transition to clean energy has the potential to grow our economy and create millions of good, middle-class jobs"

Hey guys ima go ahead and solve the energy crisis, the broken'd economy, and apparently the widening wealth gap at the same time. Re-elect me plox! I don't know how all of this is going to work......but I'm sure it'll just sort of fall in to place....cool. Oh and I said 'the potential' which means if I'm wrong you can't really blame me that much.

"When I was a candidate for this office, I laid out a set of principles that would move our country towards energy independence. Last year, the House of Representatives acted on these principles by passing a strong and comprehensive energy and climate bill – a bill that finally makes clean energy the profitable kind of energy for America’s businesses."

Sup guys.....doing a really good job here........re-elect me please..... Also its like, yeah, MY bill. And its going to make clean energy profitable. But like...I'm not going to tell you how, just take my word for it."

"Now, there are costs associated with this transition. And some believe we can’t afford those costs right now. I say we can’t afford not to change how we produce and use energy – because the long-term costs to our economy, our national security, and our environment are far greater."

Transferring to renewable energy is going to cost lots of money, but its worth it. But wait....didn't I just say that transferring to renewable energy was going to fix the economy and create a larger middle class? Now its costing us money all the sudden? What was I talking about before?

^ That last part was actually a decent thing to say, and it makes sense. But 'transferring to renewable energy is going to cost money, but its worth it' isn't exactly a fucking revelation is it? I could have told you that. And I'm not the President.



And actually it is not ridiculous at all to say "By 2020 we need this much solar power and this much wind power." Its entirely plausible. I know for a fact that they already know the total surface area we would need to power the world by solar power, because they showed it on Adult Swim. Now if Adult Swim can do that, surely THE US GOVERNMENT should be able to at least come up with a vague estimate.
Jun 15 2010 11:31PM
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Black-Bandanna
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 1,603
I lied. I have one more thing to say:

It's not that he's done nothing, it's that he's done the exact opposite of what he said he'd do. He flat out lied and everyone fucking ate it up because we wanted a hero to get us out of the recession. Much like the war mongering after 9/11.

Now I'm logging out. Later all.
Jun 15 2010 11:32PM
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dex.
Posts: 2973 - Karma: 62
YOU:RE OHMYBOSH
Jun 15 2010 11:39PM
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vailsux.com
Posts: 1769 - Karma: 440
The MMS is probably just as accountable as BP for the oil spill, which is why i hold Obama equally accountable as BP. Mayde if he would have looked into the agencies working under his administration then this wouldn't have happened. But instread he gives me huge speech filled with politics and empty promises. Obama talks so much about making BP 'pay', but when it came down to the director of the agency that was responsible for making sure it was safe, he simply lets her resign. . . .

fuck you federal government
Jun 15 2010 11:41PM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
Well.. doesn't that prove our point? His motto was "change," and that sure hasnt been happening besides the dreadful healthcare bill. Aren't you supposed to believe what a Presidential candidate tells you?
Jun 15 2010 11:44PM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
mini nuke tech uses U238, not U239. I don't know how/why you compare technology from 2010 to 1979 and 1986

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium-238

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/03/24/bill_gates_and_terrapower/

Jun 15 2010 11:49PM
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Thenowhereman42
Posts: 5682 - Karma: 65
ROFL you believe what presidential candidates tell you?
Jun 15 2010 11:50PM
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JStrathern
Posts: 8747 - Karma: 1,536
are you actually rolling on the floor laughing? all im saying is that presidential candidates SHOULD tell the truth. If he says "im gonna do so and so," you vote for him because you want that done. if you dont believe anything they say how could you possibly make an educated vote?
Jun 16 2010 12:02AM
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S-S-K
Posts: 218 - Karma: 187

Can you imagine if Bush would be in office right now, the media would have his head.  Did you know that in 2009 Obama gave that same exact BP oil rig a "safety award"!? Now if Bush would have done that he would probably have gotten impeached. 

Jun 16 2010 12:56AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
ok im gonna try not to get in an argument here, but i just wanna throw some stuff out there and see what people think.
i try to stay pretty neutral on this stuff till ive listened to both sides.

and ill be honest, i dont know a whole lot on this subject.

I find it kinda strange how Obama's all about lowering our dependence on oil and fossil fuel's by using more government control. he has definitely made it obvious that he is extremely concerned about the well being of our environment, then when we have this huge oil leak, thats fucking up our coastline along with many other things, he puts it all on BP to fix it( i know i may be exaggerating) and he has done a bit to help. but i just find it strange that he's saying its all BP's fault, and completely their responsibility to fix it.

i do agree that it is BP's fault, and that they should take responsibility. but since it is effecting so much of the country, i also would expect him to help as much as he can. mostly because of his stance on the subject of oil, alternative energy, etc...
im all about the company paying for their mistake, im just confused by obama.

i wouldnt be surprised if he wasn't doing very much about it so he can say, "see, the oil companies need more government regulation" and this certainly does help his stance on using alternative energy. in the end, this could be good for him.
just a thought...

also, wasnt obama very against offshore drilling? im guessing this problem would be much easier to fix if we werent having to drill in the middle of the gulf of mexico at such a large depth.
i guess i blame the environmentalists more for this.

and on the subject of oil. dont we have an insane amount of oil in the northern states? not sure where i heard it, but i head we have more oil there than all of the middle east combined, along with all the offshore drilling we could be doing, we have plenty of oil to last a very long time. (if this is true) and it sure helps with our dependence on the middle east for oil.

now im still all for alternative energy, i think we do have to find alternatives sometime. but from what ive heard the whole fossil fuel and oil thing has been blown out of proportion by the government and media.

not trying to argue with anyone, i just wanna know what people think about this.

Jun 16 2010 2:07AM
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.Ben
Posts: 454 - Karma: 14
thank you mr. president for what? being a socialist? I don't think thats a reason for being thankful
Jun 16 2010 2:09AM
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Arabian.
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 55
You obviously didn't listen to the speech.
Jun 16 2010 2:31AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
you would be right.
Jun 16 2010 2:41AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
and/or botched it at nearly the level that bush botched katrina at
Jun 16 2010 3:00AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
lol to anyone who actually believes BP's claim that they will pay victims losses in this disaster.


theyve been very careful to say that they will pay "legitimate" grievances, and guess who gets to decide what "legitimate" is. not to mention all the money in the world wont pay for the environmental repercussions.


as i said earlier, very little will change with the oil industry. that is not so much to say that obama is an "all talk no change" kind of person, that just woudlnt be true, but merely that he is powerless to the massive sum of money the oil industry pours into politics.
Jun 16 2010 3:04AM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
This is what I got from that speech:

-Shit's fucked up in the Gulf (no shit)

-I did everything I could at the beginning (this can be debated till the cows come home...)

-I want to do my best to hold BP 100% accountable (with him on this.. just don't demonize them dude, lots of people on pensions in Britain own BP stock)

-I feel we need new alternative renewable energy (fuck dude... are you seriously using this to plug a bill of yours?)

-I feel this will cause Americans to unite in a need for renewable energy so we are no longer reliant on oil (FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!)
Jun 16 2010 3:06AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
i assume by northern US you mean ANWR, the problem there would be equally poor environmental repercussions.

the hypocrisy of conservatives on this is astounding, you want the government involved when its convenient for you, and right now, because without government action Obama can take the heat, is a prime time apparently. What was obama really going to do? until BP got it capped (which btw isnt nearly the end of it, its barely made a difference besides giving BP a few thousand gallons a day it can now sell back to us, oh how kind) all the manpower in the world wouldnt have made a difference, you simply cannot manage that much oil being spewed into the sea.


and where are you getting that Obama was against offshore drilling? he was all for it, or at least that was the concession that he made to conservatives for the sake of compromise (which of course went unnoticed by the right). he in fact pissed off a lot of liberals (myself included) by doing so.
Jun 16 2010 3:10AM
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Arabian.
Posts: 9632 - Karma: 55
I express doubts myself about how businesses are going to go about filing claims or receiving compensation for potential profits lost in the next year or so. It doesn't seem like there could possibly be a proper standard for something like this.

BTW, BP is going to be regulated by a third-party system to ensure proper compensation goes to people in a timely manner. That was part of the speech. I agree that the oil industry will only change when people change. It doesn't help that half the nation drives SUV's around just to flaunt their support for the right and spite Obama (source: tea partiers).
Jun 16 2010 3:14AM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
wow. breaking my own rule about posting in political threads, im out. enjoy yourselves.
Jun 16 2010 3:15AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
I definatly dont want government involvment when its convenient for me. im just saying that for someone so for government involvement in this area, i would expect him to be doing alot more about it.

as for the offshore drilling thing, maybe im confused about Obama's stance on it. not sure who im thinking about. anyway, i guess im just saying its funny how environmentalists are so against offshore drilling. when this would have been MUCH easier and faster to fix had been close to shore, and not been in the middle of the ocean at such a great depth.

again, i dont know much on the subject. so feel free correct me.
Jun 16 2010 3:26AM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
I thought the speech was well laid-out. It was a lot to digest, but it wasn't too my much. And I think that's good. The American people want to hear some specifics. They want to know that the problem is being combatted proactively. But they don't want to hear finger-pointing across the aisle. He was quick to blame BP. Which is good. It's BP's fault, and it's their responsibility to fix to the satisfaction of the US Coast Guard and the Administration. Period. I also thought that the bit on alternative energy was crucial. A green economy sustained by R&D and deployment of renewable energy sources could create millions of jobs. And fossil fuel-related industries like BP, Ford, and the utilities will adapt to the changes. Foremost, we need to make sure that we get a firm footing in renewables so that it isn't China that's producing our solar panels and wind turbines. Nuclear energy should also play a substantial role, but I fear that tea party activism and incumbent Republicans could derail any attempts at bringing about the nuclear energy generation that will bridge the gap between oil and fuels that require more R&D. I want to see a healthy combination of geothermal, hydroelectric, wind, solar, and nuclear providing much of the US's electricity by 2030. As well, the problem of AGW denialism is rising, funded by the oil industry lobbying machine. But the issue has become much more than just global warming. Our sovereignty depends on a green energy economy. We need to stop importing oil from around the world and focus on homegrown, renewable alternatives. Real Republicans and Real Tea Partiers should be focused on one thing: jobs. And the only way to do that while growing our GDP is green energy. Short of any talk of AGW or any talk of climate change at all, we should be focusing on a strong energy reform bill to create jobs, restart the struggling American economy, sustain growth, and wean us off of fossil fuels.
Jun 16 2010 3:38AM
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Gnams
Posts: 891 - Karma: 31
If I'm paying for god damn fast internet it better open in less than 10 seconds.

But the problem is that Obama hasn't done jack shit. Almost 2 months after the spill he meets with the execs. WTF Bush would have met with them the day of. But instead he is having some bro beer time with his friends on the back porch. Are you serious? All that Obama has ever done is talk talk talk and get nothing done.
Jun 16 2010 9:57AM
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