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PETITION: KEEP TOBACCO OUT OF SKIING

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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,375
After reading a thread in NSG, I'm shocked about people rationalizing that its OK for tobacco to be a part of newschool skiing.

[B]If you want to discuss the topic head here:[/B]

[URL="https://www.newschoolers.com/web/forums/readthread/thread_id/541552/page/1/"]https://www.newschoolers.com/web/forums/readthread/thread_id/541552/page/1/[/URL]

[B]If you think tobacco has no part in newschool skiing put your name in this thread you are reading.[/B]

This hopefully will let people step up to the plate, and maybe someone will see this who matters. It was quoted in the other thread that newschoolers.com pretty much invented this sport, so the site has say in it.

Tobacco has nothing to do with skiing. Their money will not help the sport. Anyone who takes thier money should rethink what they are doing.

THIS is taken from GT (general tobacco) 's website:
[B]GT and its employees are fully compliant with the Master Settlement Agreement (MSA), which confirms that we will not direct our marketing strategies toward youth; including the use of cartoons in advertising, outdoor advertising, free samples for minors, and restricting sponsorship of events with an abundant population of youth. In addition, General Tobacco is pleased to comply with all financial provisions set by the MSA in contributing to local, state, and federal foundations directed to the prevention and elimination of underage smoking.[/B]

Older folks usually don't look up to athletes the way young kids do. By sponsoring someone who young kids look up to a (newschool skier), and putting adds in a magazine, which is based around newschool skiing, which IS a sport of [B]ABUNDANT POPULATION OF YOUTH, GT is DIRECTING THEIR MARKETING STRATEGIES TOWARDS YOUTH and thus ARE NOT FULLY COMPLIANT WITH THE MASTER SETTLEMENT AGREEMENT[/B]
May 19 2010 12:19PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 61
I agree 100% with smuggs.

The bottom line here is that we're seeing a tobacco advertisement in Freeskier, a magazine whose demographic hinges on the 12-20 crowd, roughly. According to their Master Settlement Agreement (MSA), they will not advertise to "youth."

Who are "youth?"

The UN General Assembly defines "youth" as those between 15-24 years of age. The World Bank defines "youth" as those between 15-25 years of age. The Commonwealth Youth Programme defines "youth" as those between 15-29 years of age. Finally, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration defines "youth" as anyone under the age of 21.

Is this advertising?

Yes. The advertisement was purchased from Freeskier. Apparently, it takes a position such that tobacco is portrayed as something that "isn't that big of a deal."

Is tobacco that big of a deal?

Yes. A known carcinogen, tobacco has a negative effect on the user. Negative effects on the lungs, mouth, heart, skin, teeth, etc. are longterm and not temporary. Not content with merely harming the user, tobacco harms those around the user due to the effects of secondhand smoke.

Is this an issue legally?

Yes. It doesn't take a lawyer to figure out that General Tobacco (GT) is in the wrong here. They are violating their own Master Settlement agreement by targeting their advertising at youth. It doesn't matter how many people are going to be seeing the advertisement. What does matter, is that people will. Advertising is proven scientifically to desensitize people to harmful things such as tobacco. So yes, this advertisement will inevitably be effective.

Why should I care?

You should care because GT is harming the ski industry through this advertisement. Sure, the ski industry (namely, Freeskier) is gaining money off of this, but have NS and the ski industry as a whole really become that shallow? You would accept money from a company that will harm the health of our skiing community and a company that already has harmed the health of millions of Americans.

I had faith in NS. I had faith in the skiing community. But has it really become this shallow? Skiing is a sport that emphasizes an active, healthy lifestyle and community bonds and friendships. The advertisement may seem small and insignificant, but by proxy it acts to destroy all three of these things that make skiing great.

I urge Freeskier to settle this quickly and halt future tobacco advertising. It may be money, but it's not money that we want in our sport.

A. Gill
May 19 2010 9:19PM
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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,375
^ dont agree with me man, im a big pussy, that might make you one too.
May 19 2010 9:20PM
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jason...
Posts: 9006 - Karma: 780
If it doesn't affect you why do you care so much? Oh somebody save the children, that's right. They're gonna see this shit one way or another and by the time they do they should be educated enough to make their own decision on what they think is right for them.
May 19 2010 9:22PM
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tie.
Posts: 258 - Karma: 771
live free or die. who cares, do what you want
May 19 2010 9:22PM
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jason...
Posts: 9006 - Karma: 780
And I'm not saying I condone kids smoking, but it's not our choice to make, it's theirs.
May 19 2010 9:23PM
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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,375
when i was in the hospital, they put me in the same room as a guy who was told he had days left to live because his cancer was too fierce from smoking ciggarettes his whole life and there was nothing they could do to save him.

 im sure he had the same attitude as half of you guys do right now, but let me tell you what, once he realized the reality of the topic, needless to say he was having a hard time dealing with it. you all talk mad shit on here about how core you are and you are so free to do whatever you want because it doesnt hurt me, but wait till reality catches up with you, or you learn what big tobaccos all about.

but i guess thats off the topic.
May 19 2010 9:29PM
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207
Posts: 8969 - Karma: 3,846
agree

Joey Sczurko
May 19 2010 9:30PM
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PurpleDino
Posts: 1513 - Karma: 483
yeah i'd say i agree with the OP.  i don't mind if kids are starting to smoke weed, but i've smoked a couple butts and holy fuck are they addicting.  its also impossible for a lot of people to quit... where as weed kids can start and stop whenever they want as it really is not addicting.
May 19 2010 9:30PM
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ajax
Posts: 2853 - Karma: 1,246
here's a real survey, says the same thing though

May 19 2010 9:31PM
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T-Holt
Posts: 5020 - Karma: 639
That's a horrible argument. If we get it out of Freeskier magazine that's one less place they'll see it. Nothing would ever get done with your attitude. Imagine if people had that attitude during slavery. "Oh, slavery's bad, but me not owning a slave won't help anything so I might as well not do anything to help end it"
May 19 2010 9:44PM
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inthewoods
Posts: 1074 - Karma: 111
well..if someone else owns a slave they are hurting a 3rd person (the slave). When someone else smokes, they are hurting only themselves. Unless they exhale the air into someone's face of course. In which case the person affected can ask the smoker to move away or put out the ciggy.

fak, i didn't want to post in this cause its useless, but my fingers felt the urge to type.

If you wanna smoke do it and dont bother others with your smoke. If you dont smoke, let others know the consequencs of it (im sure almost eveyrone knows) and you'll have done everything in your hands, but don't tell them what to do with their bodies. Everyone should have the freedom to do whatever with their bodies,a s long as it doesnt interfere with others freedom.

As someone else said, maybe educate kids more about the dangers of cigs, drugs, etc so that they are not so vulnerable to ads. And ads are everywhere anyways, so I dont think it makes a difference if it is in a ski mag.

Kids wanna use what their idols use when it comes to clothes and equipment for the sport. If the idol does stupid shit, well I believe kids are smart enough to discern that shit.

Now if you dont think kids are smart enough, make a petition to make education better.

aah...my 1cent.
May 19 2010 9:56PM
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cj
Posts: 4032 - Karma: 469
It's their problem if they get cancer, but it's OUR problem if we have to pay for their treatment (in Canada at least). Smoking tobacco is a worthless, horrible addiction that has no part in skiing.
May 19 2010 9:58PM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Well, on that part I do agree..coming from a "socialist" country like yours. At least in Finland smokers who have lung cancer are always on the bottom list of treatments so I guess it's karmic in some ways.

(I've been writing too much reports, kept pressing CTRL + S after every sentence haha..)
May 19 2010 10:15PM
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jayo.
Posts: 5015 - Karma: 34
Alright, I admit that my argument wasn't that well thought out or organized but can you honestly compare hundreds of years of slavery to a one page magazine ad that may or may not even be directed at kids? I mean, those things are on two completely different levels. Slavery is a disgusting crime against humanity and is far far beyond an advertisement that is, at most, possibly suggestive.

And if I had been alive in the 1800s I would definitely have taken an offesive stand against slavery. I wouln't approach something such as the enslavement of thousands in the same way that I am approaching this issue.

But all I meant to say in the first place was that I don't think this is something that people should get so worked up about. Don't get me wrong, I would definitely prefer it if skiing and tobacco were 100% seperated. I just think that there are way way more important issues that we should be focusing on.
May 19 2010 10:32PM
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*Nefarious*
Posts: 1072 - Karma: 4,208
For sure. I think this is the main point of the argument and I agree.
May 19 2010 10:33PM
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DaveM
Posts: 2936 - Karma: 1,558
Im glad i didnt have to say this. If you dont want to smoke, then DONT! Dont tell me a dumb ad is going to honestly make you start smoking, cause it you hate smoking then it definetly wont. I actually see it as a positive, these tobacco companies will spend tons of money on ads and this will lead to more money for ski companies, pro compeition, and other ski-related events. We all that smoking is one of the worst things that you can do to your body, an ad in a magazine is not going to change that.
May 19 2010 10:38PM
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*Nefarious*
Posts: 1072 - Karma: 4,208
^ dude.. little kids are so very easily influenced. you're a tard
May 19 2010 10:40PM
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remove
Posts: 2566 - Karma: 1,026
i think we're forgetting that they're currently advertising snus............. after 5 pages anyway
May 19 2010 10:42PM
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Malcolm
Posts: 15951 - Karma: 9,451
its true. i remember being a dumbass kid not too long ago trying to get all the cool shit
May 19 2010 10:43PM
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*Dos*Planker*
Posts: 2983 - Karma: 168
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May 19 2010 10:44PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
A. NO IDEA WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT THAT WAS THE POST I READ AND I COULD NOT TELL YOU WERE JOKING

B.OK FINE BUT YOU DID SAY 98%

C. YOU DIDN'T SAY 50 YOU SAID HIGH 90'S

D. NO I DON'T THINK SMOKING MAKES YOU COOL AND I DON'T THINK NOT SMOKING MAKES YOU COOL. ALSO I SAID NOT ALL KIDS ON HERE SMOKE SO NO I DON'T THINK I'M DIFFERENT.

D. SORRY FOR THE CAPS I CAN'T TURN IT OFF I NEED TO GET A NEW KEY BOARD FOR TOMORROW.
May 19 2010 10:49PM
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POWnowBROWNcow
Posts: 76 - Karma: 43
Haha that simon dumont comment made me laugh out loud in the middle of psych class. good work
May 19 2010 10:54PM
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Malcolm
Posts: 15951 - Karma: 9,451
hire a midget to hold your shift key while you type
May 19 2010 10:55PM
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mtbakerteacher
Posts: 4185 - Karma: 20
Who cares if they advertise? Tobacco companies have the right to advertise as much as any other company in my opinion, and even that's restricted (tobacco laws). They have more restrictions on marketing than any other industry, and Freeskier is not a child-oriented magazine. It may be all ages, but why do you honestly care about a 1-page ad or a popup? If you have that little faith in your kids abilities to show restraint then that's honestly your problem. Ads are apart of society, deal with them or go live in a cabin with no electricity.

You all also forget that these kids still have to get tobacco, last I checked buying age was 18, (19 in BC), yet kids get the stuff anyhow. There are much bigger issues at stake if you have a problem with smoking than a fucking ad in a magazine, so stop trying to further infringe upon an already restricted market under the guise of "ohh protect the kids wahh"
May 19 2010 10:58PM
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Common_Cents
Posts: 455 - Karma: 13
HAHA this... in fact just now the midget i hired to "hold down my shift key" is shifting me into a very horny mood as i smoke my fatty cigars and snort coke off a prostitute.. This thread is why i love newschoolers
May 19 2010 11:03PM
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Deletedtoday
Posts: 4060 - Karma: 398
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May 19 2010 11:04PM
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tedmgee
Posts: 1502 - Karma: 111
he needs a filter on that hole so dirt and shit dont get in.
May 19 2010 11:10PM
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Deletedtoday
Posts: 4060 - Karma: 398
he uses a rubber
May 19 2010 11:10PM
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Thenowhereman42
Posts: 5682 - Karma: 65
ITT: Huge pussies
May 19 2010 11:14PM
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ankhou
Posts: 505 - Karma: 238
My issues with smokers have been growing steadily the last few years. I don't know how it is in the US, but in South Australia, smoking is banned indoors and has been for a few years now. Now that I don't have to deal with that shit every time I want to go out for a couple of drinks with friends, I've realised exactly how disgusting it can be.

As a non-smoker, having smokers around can be intensely frustrating. Sure, you say we can ask people to stop smoking near us, or put the cigarette out, but in reality how many people are actually going to do that? In my experience, virtually nil. Having smokers around in a situation where you can't easily get away from the smell (the onus always falls on you) means you have to deal with stinging eyes, a disgusting smell, and your clothes stinking the following day because they're filled with tobacco smoke. I deal with this at the bus stop, at bars, sitting outside at coffee shops, and yes, on chairlifts.

Smokers always act like they're making a choice and exercising their freedom, but in reality you're a slave to the habit. Ever since you made the conscious decision to buy a packet of tobacco or tailors, you've been giving up your time, money and health to a habit that is doing you no good whatsoever. Sure 'you can quit when you want', but you're only fooling yourself.

This is where my problem with tobacco advertising comes from. To consciously indoctrinate kids into thinking an addiction (with no tangible benefits) that drains time, money and, most importantly, health is cool? That's not OK. If people want to make their own decision to smoke or snus, even if they're weak-minded enough to think smoking's cool because their favourite pro does it? No worries. Society can't be responsible for individual retarded decisions on that level. However, to advertise smoking as though it's a classy habit, or as if it has any connection to winter sports whatsoever, is just immoral.

One hundred percent behind you smuggs.

p.s. I'm not that bothered about weed. Tobacco's the problem.
May 19 2010 11:21PM
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aapowpowwiz
Posts: 48 - Karma: 34
seriously its gross we all know that but who gives a shit, its a free country motha fuckas
May 19 2010 11:23PM
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Thenowhereman42
Posts: 5682 - Karma: 65
Wow you are a huge hypocrite. I don't like Australians very much they really put a damper on my mood if I see some when I go out for a drink. Lets ban them from bars, or at least make them be Australian outside.
May 19 2010 11:24PM
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jerad
Posts: 3236 - Karma: 47
If its not in Freeskier it will be in popular movies, TV, whatever. Targeting Freeskier here is pretty unfair - they're trying to run a business. I mean it's not like this is the most profitable industry to begin with, I can't imagine trying to run a magazine where 100% of your revenue is ad based. This is a much larger matter than "keep tobacco out of Freeskier magazine." Tobacco companies are fucking ruthless - if you really want to do something about it get creative. Make a website or blog or something, get your message out there (Think TRUTH commercials).

If it took you until now to realize this is a problem, you're about 60 years too late. I'm not trying to come off as an asshole, the fact of the matter is this has been a persistent problem since the 50's. Maybe try writing a letter to Freeskier if you feel that strongly about it. If not, just don't be a sucker and start smoking or whatever because of a fucking advertisement...
May 19 2010 11:25PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 61
This is so pointless, but I have to say it again:

Have NS and the skiing community really become this shallow? Suddenly advertising dollars from Big Tobacco helps our industry? For a community that's built around healthful, active lifestyles, community ties, and friendships, it really disgusts me that everyone is so quick to accept money from an industry that essentially tears apart all of those things. Really, NS?

I'm just really disgusted. I think I'm going to have to take a break from NS for awhile, because I am beginning to wonder whether our community has finally sold out. I'm so tired of this. I'll continue to lurk around a bit, but I'm done for awhile.
May 19 2010 11:25PM
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ankhou
Posts: 505 - Karma: 238
I don't smoke weed, but I have friends who do. The main point is weed doesn't get advertising dollars poured into it. Also your analogy is fucking retarded.
May 19 2010 11:27PM
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Thenowhereman42
Posts: 5682 - Karma: 65
O rly? I'm pretty sure any money that is coming from anywhere will help the sport immensely. Because it is money. And money is helpful.

Here, you obviously need an explanation from the beginning:

Ok, now, a long time ago cavemen or whatever would trade "goods" for other "goods". Then after a while they started using shells and other things as a sort of "currency". Well years went by and the currency in most developed nations became pretty standardized and was backed by something called "The Gold Standard". Now what this meant is that the government's money was worth something, because it was backed up by gold and could theoretically be changed for gold at any time. Well these days the gold standard no longer exists, and our money is only worth something because the government tells us it is. There really is nothing backing it up.

Ok so now that you know what money is,

"Companies" are groups of people trying to sell a "product". These "products" cost money, more money than the "companies" produce the "products" for. This is how they make "profit".

But how do the companies let people know they are making these "products" you ask? Well, that is a little something called "marketing".

Now "marketing" means that the "company" gives money gives money to other organizations (such as sports magazines) that people already watch for entertainment. This is how the "company" sells its "product".

Now how this helps skiing is that they can take this money, and reinvest it back in to the sport, in order to grow the company, promote contests, get better media exposure, etc, etc. It has many uses.

I hope I didn't go too fast for you.

May 19 2010 11:35PM
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Thenowhereman42
Posts: 5682 - Karma: 65
Not really. Basically you are saying these people annoy me. They aren't really doing anything except minding their own business, but fuck that. They personally annoy me, and I am an intolerant bastard, so they should have their personal freedoms limited.
May 19 2010 11:38PM
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ankhou
Posts: 505 - Karma: 238
No, I'm not. Smoking is a health issue. The advertising of smoking is a social issue. Advertising smoking to kids (and not just kids, teenagers and adults too) is directly harming their health and financial situation. This is entirely disconnected from my personal gripes with smokers, which I guarantee you the majority of non-smokers share. This is the fact that the vast majority of smokers are inconsiderate about their smoking, which means the rest of us have to deal with not only the annoyance of the smell, but also potential health issues from second-hand smoke.
May 19 2010 11:43PM
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jayo.
Posts: 5015 - Karma: 34
Goddamn, if you care so much about second-hand smoke, don't stand by people when they're smoking
May 19 2010 11:51PM
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ankhou
Posts: 505 - Karma: 238
That's the thing bro, I don't. They stand by me. See the 'inconsiderate' part.
May 19 2010 11:52PM
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alvy.
Posts: 2134 - Karma: 377
Agreed 100%
May 19 2010 11:52PM
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remove
Posts: 2566 - Karma: 1,026

your making the error of assuming that people have no common sense. Thanks to the likes of you people just think that tobacco users are just odd people.

The dangers are advertised more than the god damn product. People use tobacco get over it. But don't assume that they use it just because they saw some add that hypnotized them.

Smokers have been forced into different rooms, buildings, and outside because of the second hand smoking dangers so thats no longer a problem.

Any other forms usually prove no problem unless you count the improper disposal of spitters

Your arguement makes little to no sense. You shouldn't be worried about the choices of other people that do not directly effect you

As i said before: Retards that feel passionate about ridicuolus problems are going to be the end of the world.

May 19 2010 11:54PM
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jayo.
Posts: 5015 - Karma: 34
If it's really a concern to you, you can a) move or b) poitely ask them not to stand near you until the have finished their smoke.
It's really not that hard. Bro.
May 19 2010 11:55PM
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ankhou
Posts: 505 - Karma: 238
Say I have a bunch of friends who've joined a religious cult. This cult is advertised as 'cool'. The cult has a subscription fee and slowly gives its members cancer because they're required to carry around trace amounts of uranium on their person. The cult also irritates the general public by handing out pamphlets at bus stops, cafes and on chairlifts. The pamphlets also give you cancer, because they're contaminated by the uranium. I must accept the pamphlets unless I actively inconvenience myself to avoid the people distributing the pamphlets.

Despite a public education campaign, the cult still attracts new members, primarily younger people, through indoctrination and peer pressure. The cult is attempting to associate itself with skiing, and is using the 'street cred' skiing has with younger people to worm itself further into the consciousness of younger skiers. Should I not be worried about the choices my friends, or younger kids are making, choices that they wouldn't be making if the advertising wasn't so pervasive?

I'm not arguing that everyone should stop smoking because it personally annoys me. I'm arguing that the advertising of smoking should stop, especially in skiing and other sports with which it has no connection because it negatively influences people who don't need or deserve that bad influence in their life.

Honestly, if you can't see the issue here, I don't know what to say to you.
May 20 2010 12:08AM
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ankhou
Posts: 505 - Karma: 238
Pretty sure I already covered this.

a) Why should I or others have to inconvenience ourselves because smokers are inconsiderate?

b) This doesn't work. 90% of the time, the response is a strange look, a laugh, or completely ignoring you.
May 20 2010 12:13AM
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ChillTeenDad420
Posts: 1858 - Karma: 5,512
everyone should just light up a j and chill.
but really take this shit out of skiing, do we want our sport associated with it?
May 20 2010 12:15AM
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jayo.
Posts: 5015 - Karma: 34
Pretty sure you covered this after my post.

a)Is moving to get away from something that you are so passionately upset about really that much of an inconvenienve?

b)If that's true, then you asociate yourself with some real assholes. For the most part, the smokers that I know are completely fine with moving if someone has a problem with second-hand smoke and they will usually ask if its okay that they smoke around me.

And don't say that smokers are inconsiderate. You are suggesting that all smokers are rude and that, my friend, is stereotyping. Plus, some of the absolute kindest people I've ever met smoke.
May 20 2010 12:25AM
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prontocuts.com
Posts: 5244 - Karma: 42
People have no problem with drinking in ANYTHING. And thats what pisses me off. Nearly everybody I know has been affected by alcoholism or drunk drivers.
May 20 2010 12:30AM
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ankhou
Posts: 505 - Karma: 238
a) It's much more inconvenient than it would be for the person who's inconveniencing me to alter their behaviour. Say I'm waiting at a bus stop or sitting on a chairlift - there's only so far you can go.

b) I'm not talking about my friends or other people I know who smoke. They're usually quite considerate. I'm talking about strangers.

You're right, and I don't want to stereotype. Not everyone who smokes is an asshole. The vast majority, like the rest of the population, are normal people. My issue is the awareness of how uncomfortable the side-effects of the habit makes many people just isn't there.

This isn't the main point I'm arguing though - my primary concern is the advertising.

p.s. I don't care about my karma, so keep going nuts whoever's -k-ing.
May 20 2010 12:36AM
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ukskier999
Posts: 58 - Karma: 13
This thread is way too long. Question of choice. End of.
May 20 2010 12:40AM
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