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Salomon Boot Failure facebook group - please take a look.

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ectreeskier11
Posts: 697 - Karma: 366
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=114744965230227#!/group.php?gid=114744965230227&v=info
A lot of you guys over here probably didn't hear about this, but salomon released a dangerous product that ended up seriously injuring a guy i know, causing him to almost lose his leg. It had to do with a technical issue on a touring boot, but if you could check this out and give him some support, that'd be great. please don't let this turn into a "fuck you, i love salomon" thread. it's not about that. they have some great products that i was very interested in next year, as did atomic, a sister company, but they dropped the ball on these and have lost a lot of people trust on TGR especially, myself included. again, i do not hate salomon, i do not need to hear people defending salomon, and i challenge you to keep this thread positive. dalton, the guy who got injured, could really use the good vibes. i respect you if you don't agree with my position, that's fine. i would just really appreciate it if this could stay positive. and please, if this somehow violates your rules here, i would really like a response from a mod on why this needed to be deleted. salomon released a recall announcement of some sort, admitted a "possible" problem (look at the info, it's a lot more positive than possible), so i would really be thrilled if this stays, i just want to give dalton a hand in a tough time. thanks for listening.
May 6 2010 2:32AM
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ectreeskier11
Posts: 697 - Karma: 366
link button doesn't work for me, if someone could help out that'd be much appreciated.
May 6 2010 2:33AM
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AndrewNZ
Posts: 477 - Karma: 13
www.facebook.com/?sk=2361831622#!/group.php?gid=114744965230227&ref=search&sid=670582410.1541587768..1
May 6 2010 2:58AM
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ectreeskier11
Posts: 697 - Karma: 366
thanks man, appreciate it.
May 6 2010 3:05AM
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AndrewNZ
Posts: 477 - Karma: 13
How was it faulty, I took a look at the group and didnt see it.
May 6 2010 4:17AM
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skinnyskisrock
Posts: 40 - Karma: 10
I saw some posts from Lou on this one @ WS. Did Salomon ever respond?
May 6 2010 7:00AM
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Blurst
Posts: 13577 - Karma: 10,169
What was wrong with the boots?
May 6 2010 7:42AM
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1337
Posts: 31054 - Karma: 29,240
this. joined btw
May 6 2010 7:46AM
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nickyp
Posts: 5673 - Karma: 215
They were incompatible with certain touring bindings, like 3 models from really shit brands. I was going to make a thread on it at the time, but it's so trivial, and affects so few people, it would have died.
May 6 2010 8:20AM
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MADDECENT
Posts: 5579 - Karma: 951
oh thats dumb
May 6 2010 8:33AM
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rudolph
Posts: 633 - Karma: 975
It doesn't matter that it was a very limited group but what does matter is that Salomon knew they had a problem because they created an inferior product and chose NOT to act, in turn injurying people. So the next time you roll into a jump with Salomon bindings think about this situation because are you going to trust a company like this?
May 6 2010 9:05AM
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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,375
salomon made and continues to make awesome bindings, and my ghosts rock shit too.

the fact of the matter, new "technology" is released all of the time always too early especially in skiing. i dont get a boot with switchable plates, if you want to tour get a touring boot, if you want to ski inbounds get a inbounds boot. weather you know it or not you are a test dummy for most everything you do and buy.

there are alot of harmful products available for purchase
- guns
- cholesterol
- cigs
- alcohol
- salomon quest boots

sucks that someone got hurt, and if i heard the right story it was a friend of my sisters boyfriend while they were touring on mt washington. i hope he gets some compensation because all of the things you buy that are known to be dangerous usually have a warning label. it obvious the boots did not have a consumer general warning that your leg could explode at any minute because of insert failure,

but as a avid skier i accept any risk  that something bad could happen to me at any point. im just hoping my gear is tip top and researched tested and proved. dont buy gimmicks, know what you need. and if a skiing product is brand new, always give it some time to iron out any mistakes.

btw GARMONT just developed a new insert for dynafits, and the engineered a special machine to put tremendous stress on the product just to be certain that there are no failures, garuntee salomon doesnt have acces to that  machine.

http://www.feedthehabit.com/news/garmont-rasies-the-bar-with-proprietary-tech-inserts/
May 6 2010 9:40AM
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Lemuel
Posts: 14489 - Karma: 10,641
It sucks that he got injured. But are you really going to stop supporting a company because of one faulty product? It's like Toyota, had issues with sticky gas pedals, alot of issues, and I'm not sure if anyone died, but I would guess that someone has. Are people boycotting Toyota, one of the best quality car brands available? No. Injuries happen in everything from manufacture defects. Vibes to your friend, but this isn't going to stop me from clicking into my Salomon bindings.
May 6 2010 10:02AM
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SNOWPARKCHlLE
Posts: 2047 - Karma: 6,727
this..
May 6 2010 10:29AM
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fdsa
Posts: 686 - Karma: 19
Tell whoever wrote that that if they expect us to read it, it needs paragraph structure. My eyes about crossed the first time I saw that.
May 6 2010 10:34AM
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c4t_l0ver
Posts: 5485 - Karma: 810
jeaa
May 6 2010 10:45AM
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EARL
Posts: 598 - Karma: 3,052
im pretty sure quite a few people have died from the toyota problem.. i know for a fact that a whole family died in one that wouldnt stop.
May 6 2010 11:19AM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
Yo Nate don't blog on oxyies brah (winkie)
strong post smuggs except a lot of people ski in and out of bounds and want one boot. We don't want to fuck around changing bsl and toe height adjustments. we don't want to change boots when shits tracked and ob gates open. These boots are being marketed as such.
Shame on salomon for trying to save a few bucks using shit inserts and not properly testing them.
if you bother to read the wild snow link how that product got to market without even rudimentary testing is beyond fucked.
Basically Salomon got greedy looking for it's share of the "REAL Skiing on REAL Mountains" market
OR SO TANNER SAYS
and we all know TANNNER IS  A GOD (dont get your skittle thug panties in a bind emotithingy inserted here)
Good on ya for stating that fb page clean it up a little, paragraphs help, take out the part about you getting jacked up it's irrelevent to the focus of the page
If anything this should help all of us as companies don't want his kind of publicity and will do a better
job at testing and R&D (Garmont)
It sucks that Dalton is jacked up but he is a stud and while his life and skiing will probably never be the same, but he has a positive attitude and will make the best of it.
Supporting your boycott  for now pending how salomon/amer corp handles this. If they fuck around with lawyers and try to weasle out from doing the right thing (taking care of D). I'll never buy another one of their products,
But everybody fucks up it's how you handle the fuck up and learn from your mistakes that really matters.

's irrelevent
May 6 2010 11:22AM
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ectreeskier11
Posts: 697 - Karma: 366
i wrote that, with the hopes that someone with a more intimate knowledge of the situation would write something more concise and to the point. sorry. not that easy to get it all into one little blurb, and not easy to keep track of format on facebook. smuggs, to say that you, or anyone, should accept manufacturer error is bogus. i accept the risks of the type of skiing i do 100% (i've gotten into an avalanche and broken my tib/fib this season, because I was a dumbass doing the things i like to do). i've even blown out a set of jj's, and i accept that too, since i skied them through rocks and shit. but, for example, if they were to splinter into pieces for no reason while i'm bombing a groomer, and i fuck myself up, i'm gonna be pretty pissed at armada (just hypothetical). companies are charged with marketing products that allow us to do what we do as safely as possible. in this case, salomon fucked that up. you're also right about "just get a boot designed to do what you need it to do". well, if you knew dalton, he needed something burly and stiff, of which none of the pure AT boots really. the dude's like 6'4 250, and charges. also, let me try and explain what happened to those who can't figure it out from the link. he bought the quest boots to sue with dynafit bindings, which according to salmon they are designed to do. making a mellow turn on low angle very firm snow, the tech insert in one boot blew out, bending upwards and causing him to take a long sliding fall, resulting in the injuries. check out the wildsnow links on the FB page if you want to know some details. and sure, i still trust salomon bindings, i'll keep using my 916's if i don't sell them. but i won't be buying anything new from any of those companies.
May 6 2010 11:32AM
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Steakhead
Posts: 490 - Karma: 233
Correct me if I am wrong but I do not think Salomon is selling the Quest Boots right now, they gave out a bunch of pairs to key people to test and give feedback on.

I was fortunate enough to get a pair from Salomon to rock this season and it is hands down the best AT boot I have ever skied in. I never used them with Dynafit bindings and never will just because I could never trust 2 pins holding my boot in, thats just weird. Anyhow I toured with them in Marker Dukes and now the FS12 Tour and was blown away how great the boots were. I also am required for my job to be on hill a lot and this winter my feet have never been happier. Being in the Quest with Vibram soles at comps, ski tests, etc and then clicking in and skiing like you have a normal boot on absolutely rules.

As for Dalton +++vibes+++ to you my man and hope you are back skiing in no time.

To the thread creator you stated you wanted to keep this thread positive in nature, why on earth would you link it to a facebook group boycotting Amer Sports...Boycotting Salomon?? If you ski on twin tips make sure you thank salomon for the 1080...

Accidents happen, technology/devices do fail sometimes its a fact of life.
May 6 2010 11:32AM
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ectreeskier11
Posts: 697 - Karma: 366
agree with everything in this post. there are people who would have been better off starting that thread, but i had the time so i did it. if you guys think the shit i wrote is too long winded and poorly constructed, sorry. just read the links on that page, those will really tell the story.
May 6 2010 11:36AM
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ectreeskier11
Posts: 697 - Karma: 366
false, i know for a fact dalton and a few others paid for these boots just in the last couple months, and were lead to believe they were a fully on the market boot. one of the testers had a similar failure according to a number of sources, not resulting in injury.
May 6 2010 11:38AM
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SkierX
Posts: 16253 - Karma: 538
Actually, yes, people are boycotting Toyota for their defects.

Defects happen. That is life in the manufacturing world. However, it is another thing to put a product to market that is inherently unsafe from the structural DESIGN of the product.

http://www.wildsnow.com/2888/salomon-quest-tech-fittings-failure/

This is a classic example of negligence. The company (Salomon) put a boot to market without testing the design to ensure that it would stand up to the expected forces it would encounter. Someone is now SERIOUSLY injured because of an improperly designed binding that failed when it should not have. Sure, the boots in question have been recalled by Salomon, but it appears that this is something that could have been easily avoided if testing had occurred before the products release.

If you feel comfortable placing your hands in a company that is willing to not test products before putting them to market and utilize defective designs, then that is your prerogative. I personally, would rather not take that chance and have no intention of purchasing a Salomon product.

And although I would have preferred some paragraph structure to that Facebook group, I thank you for posting the link.

*This post is my own PERSONAL feelings, and in no way represents the feelings of Newschoolers.com
May 6 2010 11:39AM
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ectreeskier11
Posts: 697 - Karma: 366
thanks man, good stuff. maybe i'll try and clean it up later when i can get out of bed without my leg feeling like it's going to fall off. in the meantime i did ask people who know more about it than i to write something better.
May 6 2010 11:47AM
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Steakhead
Posts: 490 - Karma: 233
Thanks, I wasnt sure of the timeline I just knew when I got them in Jan they weren't released yet. I also never saw them for sale..Couldn't find them for sale on the internet either..

May 6 2010 11:50AM
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ectreeskier11
Posts: 697 - Karma: 366
http://www.backcountry.com/outdoorgear/Salomon-Quest-12-Boot-Mens/SAL2033M.html
they sold out quickly since they were a mid season limited release, but they were available to consumers through a number of sources. i think it was only a 2 size release, and only something like 14 of the boots with inserts were released.
May 6 2010 11:58AM
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ectreeskier11
Posts: 697 - Karma: 366
one other point you made that i didn't notice. sure, salomon doesn't have access to that machine, but lou dawson took a crowbar to the dynafit branded insert and the salomon insert. he couldn't bend the dynafit, for fear he was going to tear apart the binding as he was putting so much force on it. the salomon insert took a pretty minimal effort using the same test, and deformed badly. who gives a shit about a hightech machine when a simple test like that produces results that clear.


also, i reworded the write up for clarity. still maybe just a little long, but a lot easier to read and understand.
May 6 2010 12:35PM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
lol teh boots werent ever sold. they were given out to a small group of people. AKA testing...

Thats exactly what they did. the product failed, they are pulling the plug on it and going back o the drawing board.

May 6 2010 12:50PM
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SkierX
Posts: 16253 - Karma: 538
Try again.



"There are very limited quantities of these boots and pads in the market. While most of these products were distributed without charge for trial purposes, a very small number may have been sold. In either case, the Quest Pro boots and touring pads should be returned to Salomon by retailers and skiers. Appropriate replacements or credits will be arranged.

Any further questions should be directed to Salomon customer service at the number above, or Mike Aicher, Senior Product Category Manager at 801-624-7568

Salomon USA
2030 Lincoln Ave
Ogden, UT 84401"

http://blogs.powdermag.com/uncategorized/salomon-addresses-incompatibility-issues-with-quest-pro-boots/

"A very small number may have been sold" is lawyer speak for "we sold these, but we need to downplay the severity of this."

Additionally, the fittings tested by Wildsnow that failed were purchased through a retailer.
May 6 2010 1:01PM
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SFBv420.0
Posts: 2539 - Karma: 3,124
AKA I don't know what the fuck i'm talking about but i'm gonna post anyway.
 your loling and find this shit funny
that's sad
I think the point smuggs was making is a lot of companies are spending a lot of $$$$ R&ding new equipment like Garmont
sadly Salomon is not one of these cause Lous test wasn't to high tech
May 6 2010 1:38PM
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ectreeskier11
Posts: 697 - Karma: 366
"thank you come again". did you even read any of the other posts regarding this?
May 6 2010 1:44PM
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PASKIINGSUCKS
Posts: 9097 - Karma: 777
Smells a LOT like a dentist's office in here is all I'm gonna say.



That sucks for your friend, hope he can get some sort of compensation but it's doubtful. Might cause me to avoid some of salomon's newer products in the future that's about it. Not like I even buy new gear ever anyway though. Not trying to be an ass but I wouldn't wanna be trying new equipment on mt. washington either.

At least salomon is asking for them back and looking like they'll at least credit skiers for shitty designed and tested product. Better than what can be said for line's reactors......yes I'm still bitter, 250 bones for a piece of shit that broke first season.
May 6 2010 1:53PM
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deleted5
Posts: 14507 - Karma: 13,507
that sucks ++ vibes to him
May 6 2010 2:23PM
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Elmo.
Posts: 4317 - Karma: 663
i joined vibes for the man +++
May 6 2010 2:42PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Really sucks for the dude, I hope he gets rightly compensated. Every company is going to have defects in their product. What matters is how they handle the situation and how they are to their customers. Salomon is doing everything by the book so far (as far as I know, havent checked the TGR thread since last week), so props to them.
May 6 2010 2:45PM
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annex_
Posts: 1659 - Karma: 1,499
I don't know about anyone else but before I put my money into a product that could jeopardize my safety [ i mean a shitty product puts you more at risk than a well made one] I do some research on it. Vibes to your friend but how much did he know about the product before he bought it?
The fact that Salomon did no testing on it and sold it without telling people it hadn't been tested is bad judgement.
May 6 2010 2:49PM
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ectreeskier11
Posts: 697 - Karma: 366
rowen, yeah they issued the recall but besides that no other info has surfaced. until we know that they're going to treat dalton right, and do things right in the future, i feel like this is the way to go. if they come out and say "ok we messed up, we're going to pay for these surgeries etc", i will gladly take all this down and if they have something i like maybe i'll buy it. and to whoever was posting about knowing what you're buying, yeah dalton knows his shit. there's been a lot of confusion around the inserts, and until this incident most people were under the impression that inserts were created equally (obviously we now know that's not the case).
May 6 2010 3:10PM
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japollner
Posts: 1699 - Karma: 459
The issue here is that Salomon neglected to use Dynafit's fitting to make the boot and developed their own.  Their own was extremely inferior and under built.  They still released the toes and heels for purchase.  You can buy them online. 

The fact that the boot was in fact defective is the issue here.  The normal pressured exerted skiing were too much for the fitting to handle and pulled out, resulting in catastrophic injury.  He didn't fall, he wasnt skiing recklessly.  He fell as a result of the boot fitting failing, and now may never walk again without aid, let alone ski.
May 6 2010 3:14PM
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ectreeskier11
Posts: 697 - Karma: 366
and if you know dalton that sucks, this guy would go to the ends of the earth for some pow turns (he was touring when this happened, and makes several trips out west a year to get the goods when they can't be gotten on the east). he just moved from pa to vt i believe, so he didn't have to make a 10 hour drive every time he wanted to ski something decent.
May 6 2010 3:21PM
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heFF
Posts: 5786 - Karma: 4,456
Some people who post hear are idiot fuckheads! (for lack of a better word at the moment)

From my point of view it seems as if Solly put the boot out with out the proper amount of research and time, and knew it. Which seems very sketchy to me. After talking to nate quite a bit about this I wish people would read the details of this post. Solly fucked up. And + vibes to this guy, hopefully he skis again.
May 6 2010 5:09PM
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ectreeskier11
Posts: 697 - Karma: 366
bumping this...
May 6 2010 11:56PM
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titsLOL
Posts: 7485 - Karma: 396
+ vibes to your homie and whoever else has been fucked by those boots

and you might as well hate salomon because I assure you they hate the shit out of you for attempting to crush their business.
May 7 2010 12:03AM
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ectreeskier11
Posts: 697 - Karma: 366
nah that's the thing, we're not trying to crush their business. i'll buy again once this gets settled. just trying to provide some motivation to help a friend.
May 7 2010 12:10AM
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titsLOL
Posts: 7485 - Karma: 396
Ya I know you don't want to hurt them and support them, and this thread is completely legit. Just sayin, spreading stuff like this around the internet is why incidents like a faulty product ends up fucking a company. Don't mean to bring negativity to your positive vibes only thread though my b.
May 7 2010 12:27AM
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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,375
salomons business is alot deeper than us. they also have some of the best lawyers probably in the world. i just read up on all of this and its pretty rugged.

Dalton needs total knee replacement not just acl surgury, and femur replacement aparently. (didnt know you can replace a femur) i just have a titanium rod in one after a compound femur.

ectree you should put some of those photos up from ec roll call thread, and some of the accounts from there. might help the facebook group make more sense. they had to call in the national guard to evac the dude.

weather salomon admits to fault and dishes out some dues we will see. obviously after recalling a product somethings up.  obviously it could lead to lawyers doing their lawyer thing.....
-but it seems like the boot exploding didnt hurt him, it was the death slide.
-but the boot exploding caused the death slide.
-but a human can arrest with an axe even on ice after falling.
-but a human shouldnt have to arrest if his boots dont fall apart.

he had an axe, but its attached to his pack in the photo of him with his gigantic knee and leg on scene  (intense photo).

vibes to him and his wife and kid. hopefully it turns out for the best. human body plus human technology is pretty incredible right now.

May 7 2010 12:38AM
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ECfreeski3
Posts: 12019 - Karma: 126
haha those things were garbage
May 7 2010 12:40AM
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ectreeskier11
Posts: 697 - Karma: 366
definitely agree with all that, and no worries vinny (vinny, right? you live a few doors down on 13th i think). i'd put some of those pics up but for some reason NS hasn't been letting me use the media buttons. if someone knows what smuggs talkin about and wants to help, that'd be appreciated.
May 7 2010 12:46AM
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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,375
if u chattin with me about being vinny, im jon in alta. but i dont think you need to put the photos on ns. just the face book deal. and dont just link with some radom tidbits of into, include it all in there. i dont think anyone would be upset with you using their photos or words especially if they arent watermarked or copyrighted. and you arent profiting from it at all. i joined the facebook group, but was just totally lost. but i still dig my salomon gear. and i only usually  buy  second hand, so salomon never gets my money anyways. i could help but not tonight. i gotta work early.
May 7 2010 1:14AM
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ectreeskier11
Posts: 697 - Karma: 366
nah someone else... but yeah probably not a bad idea about the photos, tomorrow when i'm feelin better maybe. i know it still needs some reformatting, been askin people on tgr that know more than i do to step up and write but just like with creating the group no one's doing it.
May 7 2010 1:48AM
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NOSNOWJUSTICE
Posts: 1176 - Karma: 83
God this thread pisses me off.

People, if you don't know your shit, STFU!

I've said this before and posted info around for Salomon to see, vibes to thincover and I hope he recovers, but most importantly, WTF SALOMON! They would've just kept selling these faulty tech toe pieces had thin cover died or not been a member on a skiing community!!!


I just hope people sober up and realize that this shouldn't have happened. "these weren't for sale!" and "these boots are like drugzzzz, there's a risk to em" are the MOST IGNORANT statments I think I've heard in my life.
May 7 2010 1:55AM
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ectreeskier11
Posts: 697 - Karma: 366
just to clarify, thin cover is dalton's username on tgr. yeah man i hear ya on all that, ha when i read the first couple lines i was like ah shit not one of these, luckily i kept reading.
May 7 2010 2:23AM
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