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Apple's thoughts on Flash

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mizzike
Posts: 1386 - Karma: 251
http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/

ZING!
May 3 2010 6:44PM
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mizzike
Posts: 1386 - Karma: 251
soo nobody thinks this interesting..? damn.
May 3 2010 9:52PM
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prontocuts.com
Posts: 5244 - Karma: 42
Oh steve, you and your lack of citations
May 3 2010 9:54PM
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oreopancake.
Posts: 2596 - Karma: 21
I honestly don't want to read that...sparknotes?
May 3 2010 9:54PM
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prontocuts.com
Posts: 5244 - Karma: 42
steve jobs trying to rationalize why they dont have flash
May 3 2010 9:54PM
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Milksteak
Posts: 9948 - Karma: 833
Sounds like Steve Jobs has a bit of an ego problem...BUT in all seriousness; everything he said in that article is true.
May 3 2010 9:55PM
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mer-man
Posts: 1079 - Karma: 10
neat....
May 3 2010 10:06PM
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IanAvery-Leaf
Posts: 9931 - Karma: 9,399
well said
im glad flash is getting phased out, html 5 is only getting nicer
May 3 2010 10:15PM
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iLLbiLLy
Posts: 2865 - Karma: 2,631
even if its not bug free its dumb not to allow flash. and i would almost bet money that adobe is working on a touch screen interface functions in flash.
May 3 2010 10:16PM
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austinmetsch
Posts: 525 - Karma: 17
that actually made a lot of sense. if NS would only make their videos watchable on iphones and ipads we would all be golden.
May 3 2010 10:18PM
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VT_FLO
Posts: 3806 - Karma: 147
......Droid does

Click for larger image
May 3 2010 10:21PM
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p.jones
Posts: 614 - Karma: 16
very true. i'm no expert on this business stuff by any means but I could imagine it being a bitch for people to have to deal with only one company for all flash stuff (even though I like adobe). I've heard that new flash counterparts like html5 are coming out like ski the east said so hopefully there won't be a need for it later.
May 3 2010 10:21PM
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Kornn101
Posts: 3534 - Karma: 25
this is a few dates late so my response is going to be short but thats not flash's problem.

im a flash dev ( and js and html5 and obj-c ) but what steve is saying is bullshit. as for your complaint about adobe being an 'entirely closed product' or something thats not even close to true, especially when ur trying to defend opinions that steve jobs has made about his system, and the most closed system in all of computing

spark notes on my life i own plenty of apple products but jobs is being a total douche about this anti flash / anti competition do it all yourself bullshit. hence why the justice dept is now getting involved. obivously that wont change anything for a long time if at all, but trust me when i say that this whole argument is pissing ALOT of developers off, and not just flash devs. being forced to buy an apple computer just to develop for the iphone is bad for everyone.

im brinking on rant territory but ill just chill and go back to watching shit on my macbook.



there is room, and a need for BOTH flash and html5 in the web of the future.
May 3 2010 10:27PM
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chapz
Posts: 10182 - Karma: 66
html5 ftw.
May 3 2010 10:35PM
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NW_Rider
Posts: 2580 - Karma: 314
That is weird, maybe I am just lucky, but I have never seen that in my life. The only reason a Youtube video has not worked for me is if it has been removed... in which case it isn't even an issue of software.
May 3 2010 10:37PM
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Jamestown
Posts: 4002 - Karma: 51
But a Droid isn't an iPhone...that's the problem.
May 3 2010 10:42PM
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Kornn101
Posts: 3534 - Karma: 25
realized i never really finished that point. and trust me this rant might not even do that haha.

flash and open languages will always have bad programmers and scripts. alot of the backlash ive seen from html5 fanboys has been because so and so website crashes their site all time.

the only time ive had any type of major issue is with the latest versions of chrome, it tends to act a little fishy. but sites like youtube? on my windows box AND my imac at work,html5 uses more cpu power than flash in both cases. it just pisses me off to no end hearing these people spout off how much better html5 is and how its the future.

its an open web standard, great, but before it becomes a literal standard in all browsers across all platforms, it will be 2015, which is impossible for any legit agency to plan to develop for. every client i have wants interaction that is standard and viewable on the highest number of browsers, and thats sitll going to be flash for a few years. and yes, u can do some great stuff in html5 and canvas, but by the time its standard then flash is going to be THAT much better.

people were giving adobe so much shit for not having hardware accelerated video on macs blah blah blah, well apple FINALLY opened up hardware level apis two weeks ago, and after 5 days adobe released the gala player beta, and shit is so nice. so both sides of this argument need to start playing better (yes there are plenty of flash fanboys too, im sure i sound like one) but i know that both will still exist for years to come.

and im sorry for your crashes, esp that screenshot in youtube cuz ive never ever had anything like that happen, just some bogus sites that have major memory issues and cause endless loops.

sorry if i got heated, long day at work today and alcohol never helps on a monday night.

i love you all because you ski. haha, stay classy.
May 3 2010 10:47PM
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Kornn101
Posts: 3534 - Karma: 25
oh and one last thing for future integration and help with speed is that chrome os and opera are planning on building flash into the browser directly to stop with the need for user plugins, enhancing speed and performance. lets hope for the best.

open source docs for swf if anyone cares since jobs is lying about flash being entirely closed.
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/swf/
May 3 2010 10:51PM
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NW_Rider
Posts: 2580 - Karma: 314
Thats what they are employed for :) There are people out their that can make free bank calculator covered in tin foil look like the next generation of technology.
May 3 2010 10:54PM
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Style+eeze
Posts: 6901 - Karma: 551

May 3 2010 11:13PM
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OnePlank
Posts: 1212 - Karma: 60
My mom works for apple, and we bug her about it on the daily, but she won't tell us anything. Says she'll have to kill us...
May 3 2010 11:26PM
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ECfreeski3
Posts: 12019 - Karma: 126
i like macs a lot, and dont know all that much about computers and shit, but i thought this whole anti-flash thing with jobs and the ipad was fishy from the start..
May 3 2010 11:28PM
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degugirl14
Posts: 9 - Karma: 10
hurr durr Adobe's software is better than mine so i'm gonna feud with them and call Flash closed-source even though that's absolutely ridiculous to anyone who's ever taken a glance at the Flash community but hurr hurr durr luckily my target consumers don't even delve into real technology or have any idea what i'm talking about so i can spout pure bullshit on my website and hurr hurr hurr they will believe anything i say, including talking about the cons of Flash while leaving out the cons of html5 durrrrrr. btw Apple is now open-source hurrrrrrpaderpdurrrrrr, i can say this even though it's not remotely true and more people will buy my products because they know open=good hurr.

hurr i used to control a good 95% of my target consumers because i make teh best products but hurr Jobs stole some of my consumers by telling them iMovie is easier than picking your nose durr so now i'm gonna pretend i'm pissed over a touchscreen even though i never had any interest in that outdated (i thought we killed them in the 80s) and pointlessly flashy tech anyways so hurrrr durrrr Steve can lick my butthole everyone uses Flash because Flash is awesome not because it's the most available (because it's open-source) software out there at the moment and hurr all this is just my way of saying stfu about iMovie it's just a cheap ripoff of Premiere with a happy face on top give me back my consumers especially the young ones you've swindled into believing your baby iMovie is somehow better for them than big daddy Premiere hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

hurr durr i like Apple because Steve Jobs shit-talks everyone in his industry and i believe every word of it.

hurr durr i like Adobe because they have real experience in this industry and their products make me feel like i know what i'm doing.



HURR DURR i'm a PC i can do anything you want but for some reason 9% of people think doing less for a higher price is awesome. oh well.
May 4 2010 3:57AM
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eheath
Posts: 61590 - Karma: 122,949
I'm sorry, you sound retarded and you're a girl, please turn off your computer and leave the tech talk to people who know what they're talking about, which is not you. You numbers and facts you spit out remind me of my 5 year old cousin telling me that her toy horse is alive and talking to me.
May 4 2010 4:19AM
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COskier
Posts: 1066 - Karma: 131
Jesus christ, shut up and take note. If you think you have a valid argument, state it clearly and concisely. Maybe you should read Jobs' letter for an example of this.
May 4 2010 4:38AM
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dubaiski
Posts: 961 - Karma: 37
zing!!!!!!
May 4 2010 5:50AM
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EastCoast315
Posts: 3136 - Karma: 137
Nomen, thanks for that youtube html5 link. This thing doesn't crash, I love it. I'm gonna strictly use this
May 4 2010 6:12AM
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Mike-O
Posts: 14593 - Karma: 1,089
Like mentioned before, citations ahoy! So many quotes and links to factual data, statistics and peer-reviewed knowledge! IT MUST BE TRUE.
May 4 2010 6:27AM
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SketchySwiss
Posts: 393 - Karma: 43
What do you use your comp / internet device for ?


May 4 2010 6:29AM
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iLLbiLLy
Posts: 2865 - Karma: 2,631
http://gizmodo.com/5490205/html5-vs-flash-the-video-benchmark-deathmatch
^heres a link talking about video performance of flash vs html5. basically on PC its flash is faster because pc has developed graphic acceleration with flash. Mac does not support graphic acceleration, although they could if they wanted, but it seems they are trying to make html5 seem like a better choice.

As a computer science major, i think both languages are important to the internet. Flash is extremely rich in graphics and visual images. As an OOP based language(similar to Java) it is much more powerful than html5. But for somethings html5 is probably more efficient. Flash struggles with metadata for instance(although adobe is continuously making improvement). And for example you would not want to code an entire website like ns with flash. But for site components like menu bars, slide show, video players, etc flash is very powerful.
Once adobe adds librarys to make flash asynchronous with php it will really be a web powerhouse.

The thing i don't get is why not just allow people to download flash on their ipods. If it doesn't work 100% bug free for some sites, its still better than no compatibility at all.
May 4 2010 10:57AM
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VT_FLO
Posts: 3806 - Karma: 147
but a droid doesn't block any apps or any shit like that because steve jobbs aint my poppa
May 4 2010 11:42AM
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Steezius_Maximus
Posts: 1152 - Karma: 22
but can u watch porn on that?
May 4 2010 12:40PM
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Kornn101
Posts: 3534 - Karma: 25
for the select few devs who dropped everything to run and code for the iPhone, maybe, but for my agency and the agencies that my gf, roommates, and good friends work for in nyc that churn out the majority cool shit u see nowadays, its still a far far reach to try and sell a client on html5 and then hope that most peoples browsers can render it as opposed to just building it in flash and having even more flexibility.
May 4 2010 2:29PM
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BrewskiJr
Posts: 5738 - Karma: 1,478
http://thenextweb.com/us/2010/05/03/apple-deserves-slapped-antitrust-suit/
May 4 2010 2:38PM
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iLLbiLLy
Posts: 2865 - Karma: 2,631
Flash most likely isn't going anywhere. As mobile processing and bandwidth improves it will become more practical for mobile devices. Apple is risking a lot by not allowing third party plug-ins. Phones like the google nextus take over the market.
May 4 2010 2:46PM
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Peter.
Posts: 23796 - Karma: 13,014
it is smart, flash is quite slow
May 4 2010 2:50PM
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degugirl14
Posts: 9 - Karma: 10
trollin.
May 4 2010 3:45PM
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Justo8484
Posts: 3905 - Karma: 205
it's only slow if the person who created the content is a shitty developer. i've made sites done entirely in flash that load as fast, if not faster, than some sites i've created using xhtml/css/javascript. jobs' whole deal about flash not being usable on a multi-touch device is straight up crap, and not true. people have been using flash with touch screens for years now, look up this history of touchlib for flash if you don't believe me. also, apple finally opened up the APIs to allow adobe to implement hardware acceleration in flash player 10.1 on mac, and adobe got it done in like a week. if they would have done this long ago when everyone on the PC side of the world did, people would not be complaining about flash running slow on macs when watching fullscreen HD video (which you can't currently do with HTML5 video/canvas), and that would be one less sticking point for jobs' argument. I could go on and on, but flash isn't dying any time soon. check out this article for a full teardown of jobs' whole blog post and why nearly everything he says is patently false.

http://enginpost.com/blogs/development/2010-may/apple-steve-jobs-letter-rebuttle
May 4 2010 4:44PM
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