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Subaru/AWD cars question.

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Luc.
Posts: 7540 - Karma: 59
So it looks like im finally going to get rid of my 98 safari van, and plan on getting a subaru(imprezza 2.5ts wagon, or 2.5rs coupe/sedan, 2002-2003)

are there any other comparable cars on the market?(AWD) im not a huge car buff so i cant think of any off the top of my head. the only thing i could think of was the evolution series by Mitsubishi, but i have heard many problems with getting parts, maintenance, etc, not to mention they all seem to run a lot more expensive. The lancer(same category as the imprezza 2.5?) is a front wheel drive car, no?

also, i need some advice as far as the amount of kms on a car...would it be better to buy a subaru with higher (like 300kms) kms on it, and just do an engine/tranny swap, then buying something with say 150kms on it and driving it till something breaks? My brother tells me engine and tranny swap would run be about 700 a piece, and installation would be slim to no cost for me.

thoughts/opinions on the best route? thanks pros!


Apr 24 2010 9:41AM
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hartig
Posts: 8192 - Karma: 10
you have to take into consideration that the 300km isn't just on the engine/transmission.. its on the entire car.. you're going to most likely have to replace more parts on the 300k one than the 150k one. this is also depending on the condition of the car itself
Apr 24 2010 9:55AM
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statuswhitegirl
Posts: 4058 - Karma: 883
get a legacy 2.5 gt, best cheap subaru imo
Apr 24 2010 10:10AM
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Alex=God
Posts: 2422 - Karma: 139
Im pretty sure the lancer oz's are rally ready which means they have 4wd and they are easier to come by then evos and cheaper
Apr 24 2010 10:23AM
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SkierX
Posts: 16253 - Karma: 538
Nope. Those are FWD as well.

There really isn't much out there that is comparable to Subarus if AWD is a concern.
Apr 24 2010 10:24AM
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Ski_The_East10
Posts: 582 - Karma: 3
AWD...not 4wd

Some lancers are FWD others are AWD...mitsu doesnt apply the AWD drivetrain across all their brands like subaru does with their symmetrical system so it's important for you to really check out every lancer you are looking at

Also there are many cheap audi A4's and A6's floating around..great cars that do last a long time however cost of parts is higher than a subie

and your brother is an idiot for saying an engine/tranny would be 700 a piece it would be significantly more expensive and why does he say installation would be almost nothing? Unless you know someone who owns a shop and wants to do work cheap/free...and also you wouldnt necessarily need to replace both and engine and tranny (depending on what/how something went wrong) and secondly there are many subaru's out there with very high mileage which is another reason they are loved

Apr 24 2010 10:37AM
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Luc.
Posts: 7540 - Karma: 59
yea AWD is my main concern.

and in response to hartig, yea i know that the body would have issues as well, but the idea is if i found a car cheap enough i could easily do breaks and suspension and still be under budget. However, i see what you are saying, cause i def dont have the time or money to rebuild an entire car.
Apr 24 2010 10:52AM
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Luc.
Posts: 7540 - Karma: 59
he told me 700 a piece, and a friend of his who has driven subaru's as his rally car for years said 500 a piece, so i am pretty sure those numbers are legit. keep in mind i wouldnt be doing a WRX or STI swap, just a stock 2.5rs swap.

also on instal, his friend who races said it would take just over half a day and would charge nothing for it, so id buy him a couple cases of beer or something for the work.
Apr 24 2010 10:55AM
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Ski_The_East10
Posts: 582 - Karma: 3
sorry but 700 seems incredibly low...but that all depends on what needs to be replaced and I guess the subaru guy must have some connections so i guess he could get his hands on a high mileage engine that got scrapped..and having a friend that would do that labor cheap/free is definitely a huge plus to buyin a subie
Apr 24 2010 11:12AM
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H8CH
Posts: 2709 - Karma: 218
R32 of course ;)
Apr 24 2010 11:38AM
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Luc.
Posts: 7540 - Karma: 59
wow those prices are like at least 4.5x what i have been told. something is wonky here.
Apr 24 2010 11:40AM
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pomme-de-terre
Posts: 3915 - Karma: 703
i would say that your friends dont totally know what they are talking about.

why do you wanna do an engine/tranny swap so bad anyways? just buy a lower-mileage subaru and drive it, if you maintain it well, you can probably keep it for years without doing any huge repairs (like a tranny and engine swap)

i dunno if youve ever done it before, but pulling out your engine and transmission is kinda fucking hard. its also expensive, it might cost 700 to do the swap, but for that price you would be buying used components that are probably in worse condition than whats already in there... and that makes no fucking sense at all. you also have to keep in mind that while you are dropping in a new tranny and motor you will probably need to get other new parts too. motor mounts, fuel lines, throttle and shifter cables. that shit adds up real fast.


basically, just save yourself the trouble and money and buy a less-shitty subaru.
Apr 24 2010 12:29PM
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Snowcase
Posts: 11456 - Karma: 634
Why would you want to swap the engine? If it's a gen 1 just get the headgasket and timing belt fixed and you're set for another 200,000 miles. Those engines are tanks besides those issues. The engine will last a lot longer than the body.
Apr 24 2010 12:33PM
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Luc.
Posts: 7540 - Karma: 59
yea ive heard the engine is a beast.


and to the guy above case, i want to do the engine tranny swap because that way i can spend less and know what the cars parts have on it, rather then buy something semi-legit for the price of my budget and not be able to fix anything if it needs it...i think its time for me to up my budget lol.
Apr 24 2010 1:00PM
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walker.
Posts: 152 - Karma: 30
if you're hard on your cars definately get a subaru. they can handle anything and they can last up to 250k miles. all around good cars but don't get the coupe they're really hard to mod because they're a "luxury" car and they made it impossible.
Apr 24 2010 4:33PM
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NW_Rider
Posts: 2580 - Karma: 314
?
Apr 24 2010 4:50PM
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dbchili
Posts: 2555 - Karma: 1,657
im kinda floating around looking at these too, but more towards a wrx or sti

also look into x drive beemers, pretty comparable
Apr 24 2010 5:04PM
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Justo8484
Posts: 3905 - Karma: 205
go drive a 328 with xdrive and then drive an impreza or legacy and tell us they're the same. the bmw has a nicer interior, for sure, but doesn't come close in poor weather driving performance.

i'm on my 3rd subi in about 10 years, my current one is an 09 impreza 5speed that i bought new from the dealership, but the previous two were used. first one was a 90 legacy wagon, which made it to about 200,000 miles and got me halfway through college til it sprung three oil leaks at once on a trip to killington. the 2nd subi was a 98 legacy gt 5speed, which i ended up having to do the head gasket repair on, costing over $2000. anyone telling you they can swap your engine for $500 is on crack. mine was done at a subaru dealer, because i wanted a warranty on a repair of that price, but i checked with my local mechanic, who specializes in subaru work (the head mechanic has a 97lgt with a full STI swap plus some, they know their shit) and even there the cost would have come in at about $1500. my mom has a 97 outback sport with the same engine my LGT had, and she's had no problems at almost 200k miles now. my brother has a 96 legacy LS with about 250k on it.

basically, a 2nd or 3rd gen legacy (95 - 04) are going to be the best bang for your buck. i highly recommend getting a wagon too. with the 2nd gen (95-99), look for the 2.2l engine, it's pretty much bombproof. do regular maintenance on it, and it'll run forever. my brother's is actually in subaru promotion brochures because he's got so many miles on it. if you get an outback/lgt it'll have the 2.5DOHC motor, which is prone to headgasket failure. if you have a friend who's willing to pull the block for free for you, you could do the headgasket repair for dirt cheap, since the part itself is less than $100. they'll give you a little more power, quicker off the line, etc, but a little worse gas mileage. i averaged low 20s with my LGT. 3rd gen all had a 2.5SOHC motor, which is a little more reliable than the 2.5DOHC, but it's newer, so you'll be paying a little bit more. seats in the 2nd gen are nicer too, as long as you're not 200+ lbs.

bottom line, suby's are awesome, hopefully you find a decent one for a good price. treat it well and it'll last for a long, long time. hope this helps!
Apr 24 2010 5:54PM
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GoonThug
Posts: 324 - Karma: 16
audi a4 or tt with quattro.
/thread
Apr 24 2010 8:04PM
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Luc.
Posts: 7540 - Karma: 59
what the fuck are you talking about...how realistic is it for someone looking to spend 8k to buy an audi tt? lol
Apr 24 2010 9:13PM
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Luc.
Posts: 7540 - Karma: 59
yea currently im looking at 2003-2006 models, thanks a lot for the advice.

i STILL cant decide if i want to get a wagon or a sedan...the more i think about it, the more i just think ill get a sedan and put a roof rake on it. but idk, the wagon is just badass.
Apr 24 2010 9:17PM
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josh.
Posts: 3469 - Karma: 42
Whitby's not too far out of Toronto right?

http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/cto/1708030757.html
VW engine and tranny, so parts aren't too bad, all wheel drive, reliable and has "street cred" for being an Audi.

http://toronto.en.craigslist.ca/tor/ctd/1706698531.html
similar car underneath, just bigger.

Apr 24 2010 9:31PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
dont just look at subaru's there are actually alot of AWD cars out there that are just as good if not better than a subaru for the same cost.
ive driven a 2.5rs and it didnt impress me too much, it was decent, but it just seemed very dull and unresponsive, not much feel or communication, they can be modded into amazing cars, but stock or near stock, they are just too dull.
i do like the older legacy gt's from 97-04 or whatever, especially the wagons, again, nothing special to drive, but i love how the wagons look.
theres also the mazda 323 gtx, which doesnt look like much, but it is a badass little car.
the mitsubishi galant vr4, which is an awesome car, ive never driven one, but they are pretty damn fast, and from what ive heard handle great. plus you will be the only one on the street with one.

but if i were you id look at an e30 bmw 325ix. i think they were made from like 87 or 88 till 91. the e30's are known for being one of bmw's best cars, and the best generation of 3 series, as well as the most reliable, they are bomb proof. the 325 ix actually easily outperformed snow tests between it, subaru, and audi in the 90's. and it has way better feel than a subaru you could get for the same price, handles amazing, looks awesome, and just as fast if not faster. really your getting one of bmw's best cars ever for 5 grand. id easily take it over most 15,000 cars.
Apr 24 2010 11:07PM
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Crack.
Posts: 6020 - Karma: 84
bmw 7 series
Apr 24 2010 11:31PM
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i.ski.troll.
Posts: 4692 - Karma: 247
A4 Quattro
or R32.

subis are cool too i guess.
Apr 24 2010 11:33PM
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Luc.
Posts: 7540 - Karma: 59
thanks alot for the advice, but i cannot afford a BMW, mainly because of any maintenance would cripple me in parts, i am set on a subaru.

i went for a drive in a 2006 subaru 2.5rs wagon today from the dealership, was pretty impressed with it so ill get my brother to look at it this week and pull the trigger on it if its still around.
Apr 24 2010 11:35PM
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josh.
Posts: 3469 - Karma: 42
E30's aren't much more expensive to fix than a subaru, and labor rates are less because engine work is easier. most importantly though, they don't look so hideous.
Apr 24 2010 11:53PM
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charmander
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 370
on the time/money to rebuild a vehicle..

i got a 72 gmc about 2 weeks ago, running... i drove it home about 40 miles, it cost me 1500 bucks.

now, 2 weeks and about $600 in parts later, i should be able to drive it in about a week.

this is doing 100% of the work at home with my dad.

sooo basically if you dont have the time/money/experience to do so, dont buy a car with issues. spend a little more, get the 150k car, which still wont be perfect, and NOT have to do any major work.

also, as other people have said, i dont believe for a second a new engine/tranny will be 1400 installed for both of them...
Apr 25 2010 12:06AM
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charmander
Posts: 10636 - Karma: 370
anddd that 2 weeks is about 4 hours almost every night, and a solid 10 a day on the weekend.

ive been able to keep my prices down bu buying used parts, and doing the work myself.

whenever a shop does something for you it will be expensive, no exceptions.

as an example, im probably going to lift my truck 4" down the road, a rough country lift kit for my truck is like $360, the same kit installed at Les Schwab, is $1250.
Apr 25 2010 12:10AM
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WikiWiki
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 426
Well having read the thread her is my 2 cents

Owning an Evo i will say a few things- first off- awd on an evo- while still good, will not compare to that of a subaru- the main goal of the awd system for an evo is to maintain the very limit of traction- wheras a subaru it is designed with safety in mind-

also i would never buy an evo with that many kms/miles- generally evo owners(myself included) beat the living shit out of their cars- they buy the car with one purpose and thats to go fast- anything over 60,000 miles in an evo and be prepared for some major work unless it was owned by some grandma

now subarus are a great performing awd- efficient transmissions and driveline, all around good to work with- audi a4 quattros are a great awd as well abd provided you dont get your work done by the dealer are more than reasonable to fix- generally the 1.8t motor needs some work every 80,000 miles that can be costly, but besides that they are quick and pretty fuel efficient- they also look good( not going to lie, my evo included- scubies and evos look like shit)


r32 are great performers in the snow- however they are few and far between with that many miles and generally much more expensive- but they do sound amazing(friend bought one yesterday- did the flapper mod in the dealership parking lot)


besides that for used cars i cant really think of too many standout awd performers- whatever you get- just spend the extra money for good snow tires and know that just because you have awd doesnt make you perfect in snow- it helps but only to the extent of your tires traction.

hope it helped and sorry for the essay
Apr 25 2010 12:37AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
i guarantee you will spend less on repairs on an e30. parts are very cheap for a bmw, and maintenance will be cheaper cause they are so easy to work on, they are known to run into the 400,000 +mile range still running strong. subaru parts may cost a little cheaper, if at all, but a subaru is most likely going to have more problems. the build quality is so much better on an e30 than any subaru, they are complete tanks.
ive got two friends with e30's one with almost 300,000 miles, he drives the crap out of it and in the two years he's owned it he hasnt spent a dime on repairs, only the regular maintenance (fluid changes etc..)

if you can spend 5 grand on a car, 5 grand will get you a great condition 325ix that will run forever. and you will be so much happier driving it. subaru's are played.
Apr 25 2010 11:22PM
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tj.hall
Posts: 681 - Karma: 37
i am purchasing an '04 VW Golf R32. definately AWD and most definately a nice car.
Apr 25 2010 11:26PM
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Snowcase
Posts: 11456 - Karma: 634
Ridiculous statement. I own 2 subarus, my mom owns a BMW. The bmw is so much harder and a lot less reliable. Not to mention about twice as expensive to maintain.
Apr 25 2010 11:26PM
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Alex=God
Posts: 2422 - Karma: 139
The e30 is probably the best car bmw has ever ever made, 84-93 i think. Older bimmers have cheaper parts and are much more simple then the newer bimmers, therefore easier and cheaper to work on
Apr 25 2010 11:38PM
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smuggs
Posts: 6561 - Karma: 1,375
blah blah blah sti, evo, r32, ford, blah blah blah


Click for larger image
Click for larger image
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Apr 25 2010 11:40PM
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josh.
Posts: 3469 - Karma: 42
is your mom's car a 1983 to 1991 325? if not than what you said is completely irrelevant.
Apr 26 2010 11:52PM
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General_Ripper
Posts: 3327 - Karma: 189
Check out E30's a late 1980's 325ix. Things are cheap and take a beating. A strait 6 motor and a 5 speed created by German engineering you can't go wrong.
Apr 27 2010 12:02AM
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nkinsman10
Posts: 1088 - Karma: 45
90's 3 series BMW
Apr 27 2010 4:58AM
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josh.
Posts: 3469 - Karma: 42
no, the E36 is a awful car, very ugly and not very reliable computers.
Apr 27 2010 9:44PM
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MariahPapaya
Posts: 30 - Karma: 14
I love my subaru. I have an impreza sport and it gets roughly 30 miles to the gallon, handles amazingly, is light and fits my skis, kayak and camping gear all at the same time. I live on a very steep mountain road and I don't trust any other car to get me home on a dark snowy night. It is a joy to drive. I love my car. So if I were you, I'd choose that car. :)
Apr 27 2010 9:58PM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
i agree, i drove an e36 325 and it was horrible, maybe this was just a bad example, but it just drove like shit.  e36 m3's however are awesome, one of the best cars in the world IMO, and bmw's second best m3, behind the e30 :)  e46's are lame town.
Apr 28 2010 12:49PM
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josh.
Posts: 3469 - Karma: 42
e46 is hit and miss, completely depends on the layout and engine, but a two door 330I is a wonderful car.
Apr 29 2010 12:38AM
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XtRemE11
Posts: 5680 - Karma: 246
im talking about the e46 m3, obviously its an m3 so its gonna be pretty awesome, but its my least favorite m3.

though i do like the normal e46 3 series, more than the normal e36's.  the 330i zhp is such a sick car.  i got to test drive one and it was awesome, not crazy fast or anything, but just the perfect balance of everything, like it didnt do one thing much better or worse than anything else.  and it felt soooo solid. suspension was perfect for the road, not too soft that it felt boaty or had much noticable body roll, but not crazy stiff so it bounced around and lost traction through corners. they are soooo underrated, nobody knows about them. \

e30 m3, e30 325ix, e39 m5, 3.0 csl, and e46 zhp are my favorite bmws.
Apr 29 2010 12:59AM
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Luc.
Posts: 7540 - Karma: 59
glad we are still on topic...lol
Apr 29 2010 7:54AM
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Snowcase
Posts: 11456 - Karma: 634
So have they changed your mind yet?
Apr 29 2010 10:59AM
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Luc.
Posts: 7540 - Karma: 59
not really. the BMWs wouldnt even be under my radar as parts/maintenance would be too expensive not to mention a higher insurance rate.

all signs point back to the subarus im lookin at, going to look at another one tommorow if this hangover ever fucks off
Apr 30 2010 10:00AM
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Snowcase
Posts: 11456 - Karma: 634
Haha exactly. If I had the money to afford a BMW I would but after seeing my mom spend easily half of what she paid for it in parts and labor in the past 3 years, I'll stick with the $800 I've spent on my Subaru in 5 years.
Apr 30 2010 10:47AM
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Spillway_East
Posts: 1127 - Karma: 379
audi, best awd there is.
Apr 30 2010 10:56AM
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General_Ripper
Posts: 3327 - Karma: 189
What year is it. Everyone in the thread is talking about late 80's bmw's stop being an ass someone already asked you about this
Apr 30 2010 11:08AM
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Ski_The_East10
Posts: 582 - Karma: 3
You've really only spent 800 over 5 years?? I probably spent more than that in oil changes over 5 years..

Pretty impressive..gotta love subies those things are bulletproof
Apr 30 2010 11:13AM
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Snowcase
Posts: 11456 - Karma: 634
The guy clearly said he is not interested in a BMW, why continue?
Apr 30 2010 11:19AM
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