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Pros and Cons of the 2009-2010 Park Year

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FPman
Posts: 538 - Karma: 105
Hey guys,

I'm just wanting to get some dialog going about what you all liked or disliked about the park this season. There are some things I am proud of, and there are some things that didn't go like I had hoped, but I'd like to hear what you have to say.

Thanks,
Tad
Apr 12 2010 10:52AM
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Hansel.
Posts: 4583 - Karma: 112
tad great thread. i have a list of things.

Likes:
- middle jump perfect to try new things on
- whale box raised up
- hand rail at bottom
- flat box where it was

dislikes:
- no kink box!
- no down box
- what i thought was a half assed attempt at a canon rail
- wallride setup (both just regular and the launch style)
- where the dfd was

what i think should be made for improvement:

- dfd lower
- coping on top of wallride so you can set it up to grind
- down box at the top like last season
- kink box and barrel jib out


didnt mean to offend you tad or anyone on park crew just voicing my honest opinions
Apr 14 2010 10:15PM
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Billups
Posts: 3960 - Karma: 329
Things break, it happens. If its during the busy part of the season its hard to fix them.

My likes:

-Personally, I liked the up rail. It was a fun feature. I think we could have possibly set it up a bit better, but still fun.
-Jumps were usually pretty fun, minus one exception, see below.
-Rail set up was usually good. Not a big rail guy but most people seemed to like it.
-And I think we got a bit more creative this year with how we set things up.

Dislikes:

-Step downs. I hate step downs, so the less step down like the big jumps are, the better for me.
-Kink box not getting out, but I understand why.
-I think we need a variety of new rails. I love what we have, and I know they're expensive to make usually, but I think we need more of different types, which gives us more options when it comes to set ups.
Apr 15 2010 9:46AM
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FPman
Posts: 538 - Karma: 105
Don't worry about offending, i wouldn't have created the thread if i didn't want to hear it, so lay it on. So far nothing i didn't expect to hear, except the coping issue on Wally, i'm not exactly sure what you mean... it has a pipe at the top to allow you to slide the top, but i guess elaborate on what you mean.

Tad
Apr 15 2010 11:05AM
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Hansel.
Posts: 4583 - Karma: 112
it does? when i was lookin at it this year it looked as if there was just the metal welded at the top.

so why i want that on there; im thinking you guys should set up the wall ride so that you can grind the top or hit either side as a wall ride. or something like that
Apr 15 2010 5:31PM
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tribefan226
Posts: 2122 - Karma: 209
i only get to ride pns when im home in december. the one thing i wanted to see is for there to be more rails out b4 rfo. most of december just had a 3 rail line. i understand u guys were waiting for good weather to set up jumps and whatnot but there could have been more rails in the meantime. that being said, i did come down for the big air and thought the park looked great then. only thing id change about that setup would be to space out the rails on the right side more. they came up way too fast. also made it to pfc. pfc blew my mind, not a single thing id improve.

things i liked
-rfo setup was crazy fun, especially how tall the tall tee was setup
-36'ft down always good
-suzy
-jumps at big air
Apr 15 2010 6:19PM
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Billups
Posts: 3960 - Karma: 329
Its definitely made so that the top is slideable, its been up that way before. Its basically a round rail about the same size as Suzy
Apr 16 2010 8:13AM
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beowulf
Posts: 893 - Karma: 164
I agree with this.  During PFC i was thinking it would be pretty cool if the water pipe that was set up as a down and the other pipe that was setup as a cannon would be welded together to make a DF. 
Apr 16 2010 8:29AM
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Hansel.
Posts: 4583 - Karma: 112
nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. keep the hand rail
Apr 16 2010 12:21PM
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shintastic48
Posts: 2909 - Karma: 46
Likes:
-bottom jumps

Dislikes:
-rail setup (difficult to film I thought)

Improvement: more variety and I like hansels idea.
Apr 27 2010 10:25AM
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.jr
Posts: 5313 - Karma: 356
Likes:
-Dragon at the top, by far the best move Ive seen. Was stoked on that rail even more.
-Bottom hit was usually pretty solid.
-Suzy making an extended appearance.
-Rail lines on each side
-Filmer Fridays - quality idea, just make it more public next year, many times people didnt even know it was going on that night.

Dislikes:
-Spacing between rails, R side looking downhill, the upper rails on occasion got too close. We got 4 hits out, but many times I would end up skiing 1 or 2 due to them being so close.
-Extremely slow to get the jump line going
-Down rail at the top, something about the way it was situated created a shit ton of bomb holes. You cant have a flatter landing on a down rail, too many people hit in the same spot and it becomes a problem.
-Corrugated pipe.. IMO that beast needs to find a permanent home in the mini.. or the shed.
-First jump.. Whats the point? I think the mini park needs to be beefed up, put the small jump over there,  and just run a deck with rails up top and an in run to two bigger sized hits.
-Down hand rail so far down the hill that you have to skate to the lift line.
-Like Billups said, step downs. Hate 'em. Even though I didnt ever notice any too bad.

Improvements:
They are kinda mixed in up there ^
- more rails, less boxes.
- Park speakers.. Im sure we can find some clean family music.
- Place our flat rails slightly downhil, there were a few times when the boxes were so slow you were basically just stepping off the end of them.
- Drop in, speed for the bottom hit was always a bitch for me, I honestly can say I never had enough speed to more than one just (besides straight air) in a run. Part of that is because Im light, and was rocking invaders, but just clearing up that top area would be nice. What little wax I had on my skis was always stripped off right away by the leaves and roots up there.
-Change up the park more often, it seemed like last year we only had 3 set ups. Even slight changes keep it interesting.


Im sure theres more, but you guys do a hell of job as is, we are stoked on the job you all do, and that you are willing to receive feedback on your job. Oh and if something doesnt make sense its cause I didnt sleep last night. finals..


May 3 2010 8:16AM
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shintastic48
Posts: 2909 - Karma: 46
I'd also like to add the idea of having wider boxes. You know like 1 ft wide and stuff. That way you can do 180's and indian sits and other stuff if you get what i'm saying.
May 5 2010 9:00PM
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.jr
Posts: 5313 - Karma: 356
What? ha our boxes are about a foot wide.

But Im going to go the other way, Id prefer less boxes.
May 5 2010 10:05PM
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shintastic48
Posts: 2909 - Karma: 46
Sorry two feet wide or something. Idk I just want to see a box that you can actually 180 on without nutting yourself.
May 5 2010 10:28PM
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Billups
Posts: 3960 - Karma: 329
Well realistically you could still nut yourself on a two foot box, but I get what you're saying. I guess that's a halfway decent idea. The only really wide box we ever had was the super wide kink box that's now gone.
May 6 2010 12:39AM
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shintastic48
Posts: 2909 - Karma: 46
Yeah. I was talking about like some of the box's i've seen in edits out west. You could still nut yourself but your odds of missing the box entirely are much less. Would be a cool thing to have so you could get creative. I think.
May 6 2010 2:49PM
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FPman
Posts: 538 - Karma: 105
Good stuff everyone... keep 'em coming.

I'm working on our rail build list to TRY and get started on early, but that usually isn't a legal maneuver, but i'm gonna push hard.

The super wide box is on the list, as are many single and double barrel rail ideas.

Tad
May 6 2010 3:05PM
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Hansel.
Posts: 4583 - Karma: 112
could we get a barrel jib or like a lift tower jib out all season long?

May 6 2010 4:09PM
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JahJahBinks
Posts: 3567 - Karma: 461
A C box. and some weird crazy feature, like a picnic type table to a down box.
May 8 2010 12:09PM
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tribefan226
Posts: 2122 - Karma: 209
a lift tower rail like the ones that mammoth has would be really legit
May 8 2010 5:01PM
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EVAN_SKIS
Posts: 318 - Karma: 37

the up handrail at the bottom was sick

May 12 2010 4:41PM
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Joe_Brogan
Posts: 360 - Karma: 11

Likes:

-jump line

-top jump good for learning new tricks

-corrigated pipe (set up down to grind and on top of the spine at the beginning of the season)

-side kicker (bottom right)

-the period of time when the mini park was full of features

-30 ft out all season

-wall ride

Dislikes:

-no flat hand rail, only the cannon and down rail (i've been wanting to learn to handrails)

-mini park lacked features

-mini park jump too small to learn anything on

-the tow rope SUCKS

Improvments:

-more rails during early season when there isn't enough snow to build jumps

-because of lack of early snow, there should be more unique rails.  Ex:  c box, up flat down box, mini rainbow box, tires, tree jibs, any thing crazy or unique to PNS

-close meadows and turn it into a park.  the run is useless and only attracts gapers to the blue lift.  there are plenty of square runs and meadows would be PERFECT, no pun intended, for another park.  that way all features could be out all  year

-not sure if this is under park crew control, but i love the natural jumps on the tree runs.  maybe build some up?

May 22 2010 7:27PM
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Billups
Posts: 3960 - Karma: 329
We'll more than likely never get both Audition and the Meadows. We're blessed to have one, let alone two. The ski instructors will never give up Meadows because it's a really good learning hill that they do a ton of instructing and clinics on.

Also, we don't have any control over side kickers or anything like that, so we can't really go out and shape them, especially when the tree runs are groomed pretty often and those will go away.

All the rest of your suggestions are great though, we just don't have control over those two.
May 22 2010 10:16PM
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Otter.
Posts: 1161 - Karma: 84

Likes:

- middle jump was perf to learn stuff on

-36ft handrail was in a good posistion

-the hip like jump that was to the right of the bigger jumps was good for spins and whatnot.

- the 16ft(?) at the bottom of the mini towards the end of the year was good to learn grinds on

Dislikes:

- the 1st jump on audition is pretty useless

- no kink box

- rope tow in the mini.  should get a rope with the handles

- speed was hard to judge for the last jumps.

- step downs.

- and idk if it was just me but the rails got soooooo sticky at times and i busted my ass becuase of it haha

and just wondering, what new rails are being planned to be built?

May 23 2010 9:58PM
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shintastic48
Posts: 2909 - Karma: 46
Don't you mean A rail?
May 24 2010 3:00PM
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Bangs.
Posts: 1017 - Karma: 14
There is so much good wide land near the lake to the left oof the mini park. itwould be so sick if we had a like a rope tow and somesnow and we could throw a ton of rail and jib features over there. I usually goto pn every other day and it was so boring hitting the same features but i dont take what we have for granted im happy enough i have a place to ski i would just like more variety.
Jul 8 2010 8:12AM
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nick_GAPER
Posts: 1033 - Karma: 7,748
I think a wide like 3-4 foot wide like 25-30 ft long box would be mad fun! Good for beginners and gettin techy with 50-50's and butters!
Jul 15 2010 9:21AM
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Bangs.
Posts: 1017 - Karma: 14
this^
Jul 15 2010 11:16AM
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Otter.
Posts: 1161 - Karma: 84
i was talkin to the guy who does the advertising for PNS and he said they have tried to get that land for a long time.
Jul 16 2010 10:59PM
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Bangs.
Posts: 1017 - Karma: 14
oh i thought they owned it. So much sick terrain all around pn
Jul 17 2010 12:50AM
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shintastic48
Posts: 2909 - Karma: 46
I heard it's some old people that won''t sell it or something.
Jul 19 2010 1:50PM
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Bangs.
Posts: 1017 - Karma: 14
i heard the same
i say
EMINENT DOMAIN AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
Jul 19 2010 8:11PM
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shintastic48
Posts: 2909 - Karma: 46
How would eminent domain apply here? I'm not seeing it... Unless my American Government class lied to me.
Jul 20 2010 3:16AM
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FPman
Posts: 538 - Karma: 105
I don't disagree with you, but who did you talk to at PNS that said he was an advertising guy? Just curious. We do own most of the land above the lake, however there is a lot to be done to make any of it really usable for what we need. They are currently working on Backstage to make it wider and nicer with new guns and less trees, and i'm trying to push for that fix to include a major rework of the Jam Session Area. But we'll see.

Tad
Jul 20 2010 10:18AM
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shintastic48
Posts: 2909 - Karma: 46
Although this idea will most likely not be allowed, I will throw it out there anyway. It would be neat to have backstage similar to "The Alley" at Seven Springs resort. Have a bunch of small jumps and small rails. Just to screw around on if you're having a bad day or something.
Jul 20 2010 1:23PM
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Joe_Brogan
Posts: 360 - Karma: 11
Yes!!!! The Alley is soooo sick!  When I was there they had a 3 rail line, followed by a 3 jump line, followed by a 4 rail line, followed by a 2 big jump line!!  This is my dream for PNS!  We want people to want to come to our parks, just like we want to go to Capital Park or 7 Springs
Jul 27 2010 9:50PM
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Billups
Posts: 3960 - Karma: 329
People do want to come to our park, and I know I personally don't want to go to Capital Park because from what I've heard, despite all the money they've pumped into it they still don't know how to build a halfway decent jump and can't maintain rail lips, and 7 Springs is too far away for me to want to go there with any kind of regularity.
Jul 30 2010 10:36AM
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tribefan226
Posts: 2122 - Karma: 209
i dont know where you get your info from but Capital def builds good jumps, although a tad smaller than pns, and their rail lips are just as well maintaned as anywhere else ive been. not to mention its nice to hit 8 rails or 4 jumps in one run. i love perfects but lets be honest, nobodys going out of their way to hit ANY midwest park (with the exception of pfc of course).
Aug 1 2010 3:28AM
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Joe_Brogan
Posts: 360 - Karma: 11
hey, it was just idea.  i realize it woulnt happen.  but we do need a longer run, PNS has good rails, it's just that the park right now is way too small and you can only hit 2 or 3 features in one run.  it all needs to be streched out
Aug 1 2010 12:27PM
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tribefan226
Posts: 2122 - Karma: 209
i got what ur saying, a longer run would be fucking awesome, the intention of my post was more just to defend capital park
Aug 1 2010 1:46PM
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shintastic48
Posts: 2909 - Karma: 46
Sometimes 1.
Aug 2 2010 3:20PM
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.jr
Posts: 5313 - Karma: 356
If its jumps, then more often than not it is one.
Aug 2 2010 5:28PM
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FPman
Posts: 538 - Karma: 105
Ah the tried and true debate...

Currently at PNS there is no where for us park rats to go. I would love to say that there is but there just isn't. Yeah it would be fantastic to take over backstage or tuff enuff, but those runs are just too valuable to the rest of the skiers. And as usual we will get the, "But park skiers buy season passes and pay as much as anyone else." Which has its merits. However just like someone else posted in the regional thread about some other resort, yeah you buy passes, but if you don't have a pass the odds are you will likely try and find someone who can hook you up with a free/cheap lift ticket, pack a PB&J and steal poles for the day from the rental shop. When is the last time that anyone can remember paying full price for a regular lift ticket? Probably not too often. So on that Saturday when you all know that you should just stay home rather than try and fight the stupid huge crowd, that Giant crowd who paid full price for a ticket and bought a family of four food in the Chow Corral, and paid for rentals, and bought a new pair of goggles in the Loft Shop because they forgot theirs or it was snowing, just PAID for you to have a terrain park all season long, even though you weren't there and didn't pay for anything, and they were using runs like Backstage and Tuff Enuff.

Now obviously there are exceptions to this very broad general rule of thumb, and i thank those who break the norm. but for the rest of you this is why we can't take over a run like Tuff Enuff.

That isn't to say that i don't love everyone of you park rats and what you do, but that is what upper management sees.

On a positive note, we have been adding dirt to Jam session which should make it much nicer to work with and will hopefully make it more fun to be in. Also i think we will be making some changes to the rope tows in Jam Session to make them work a little better, so that is good. I don't know what yet, but should be good. Oh and Backstage should be way better too... maybe even PFC worthy...

Later,
Tad
Aug 3 2010 10:06AM
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.jr
Posts: 5313 - Karma: 356
I dont think Id ever want to see the park on backstage. When its busy, those lift lines are wayyy packed, the blue lift is also packed, but the park can still be lapped somewhat. Id really love to see the park over at the other hill with its own dedicated lift.
Aug 3 2010 12:03PM
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freeski_Shaggy
Posts: 617 - Karma: 279
I for one love the size of our park. Sure you can only hit 4 or 5 rails, or maybe a decent jump and a good size jump, but the lap times are ridicules. it takes 11/2 mins to get up the lift on your average day. So really you could take 3 or 4 laps in about 10 minutes.

You have to think about that before you say how badly you want a slightly longer park, on a chairlift that might be twice as long.

We also dont need any hate on other resorts, MRM was good this year, sure I preferred PNS park. But they had some cool features that we dont have... the down flat is so damn sick. Although I will say, even tho MRM has a longer run for their park, in can hit more features in less time at PNS, but thats really besides the point haha.
Aug 3 2010 3:40PM
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.jr
Posts: 5313 - Karma: 356
With a longer run, a longer lift is inevitable, but MRMs park lift never seemed like it was very long (Though I havent been there on holidays.) I get what you are saying, but having a longer run with a dedicated lift is what I am wanting (greedy? yeah.) A park on something like backstage would end up like how you were saying, packed.

As far as which mtn you can hit more features in a given time, Id say they are about the same, except MRM has a much more spread out approach.
Aug 3 2010 11:57PM
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tribefan226
Posts: 2122 - Karma: 209
yeah if ur gonna hit up mrm, DONT do it on a weekend, weekdays are the fucking bomb tho
Aug 4 2010 12:49AM
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Joe_Brogan
Posts: 360 - Karma: 11

the best idea is to turn meadows into a park.  there would be almost no lift line because it would only be park skiers.  we would still have a short lift time to the top, and PNS would have the space to put out more of their features.  i understand that meadows is used by the instructors, and they probably wouln't want to give it up, but far side is a better learning hill IMO.

BTW:  are there going to be any new rails/ boxes/ jibs this year? thatd be awsome!!!

Aug 4 2010 10:16PM
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shintastic48
Posts: 2909 - Karma: 46
I agree. Almost every "noob" that goes down the meadows bombs it because they can't turn and end up crashing into someone or falling at the bottom.

Only problem is. In order to get to the orange lift you would have to first go to the red or white lift. That will make standard skier's traffic really high in those areas. Something Perfect north would definitely not want to do.
Aug 4 2010 11:39PM
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.jr
Posts: 5313 - Karma: 356
 I think we could make a case that its almost a negative having that run open to beginners. I cant tell you how many times I see people careening down that hill out of control headed either right for the lift line, or at the instructors/people who are trying to learn. If there wasnt an open smaller run right by the lodge, there may be less people willing to ski beyond their abilities, maybe they might head over to the green (correct progression) lift instead.
Aug 5 2010 12:19AM
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shintastic48
Posts: 2909 - Karma: 46
Very Good point
Aug 5 2010 12:37AM
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