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What healthcare reform means for you as a skier?

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dave...
Posts: 1688 - Karma: 126
So I'm Canadian and I pay more taxes than you on things like beer, gas, cigarettes and income.
In return, my government gives me free health care and a subsidized education. So I'm pretty happy with it. So why is half your country bitching about this?

I'm also mainly wondering, what does this bill mean to skiers and their injuries? poor and rich alike

Will the government's medicare cover poor skiers who tear their acl?


Mar 23 2010 7:10PM
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snowking249
Posts: 1452 - Karma: 34
because we find a reason to bitch about everything
Mar 23 2010 7:11PM
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Eric.S
Posts: 1749 - Karma: 64
In general I dont think If your skiing your poor.
Mar 23 2010 7:12PM
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moonofendor
Posts: 1484 - Karma: 14
i wish i could say that, but ever since i entered college i've been broke as a joke.

but now i don't have to worry about health insurance once i graduate. prolly 3 years.
and yes i know i could be under my parents plan, but i'm not staying in ohio, so it would be a bigger pain in the ass.

Mar 23 2010 7:15PM
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Langdal
Posts: 106 - Karma: 13
As a Norwegian, I too wonder why there's such a great resistance against public health care. In Norway, virtually no one has health insurance, but we get along just fine.
Mar 23 2010 7:16PM
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PhilboydStudge
Posts: 3431 - Karma: 206
Because half of our country has the intelligence of an uneducated, uninterested child. I'm realizing that there's very few people who know what they're talking about who argue against the bill. To those of you who can make a good argument about it without sounding like a retard, I commend you.
Mar 23 2010 7:16PM
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ninjax6792
Posts: 510 - Karma: 12
Healthcare is a huge scam, all this new bill is putting out nation in debt more and more to the federal bank. Im not down, healthcare should be FREE FOR EVERYONE, independant of greedy insurance companys that only exist to make money off of peoples problems. True Talk.
Mar 23 2010 7:19PM
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mikemac
Posts: 1292 - Karma: 3,623
because nobody has actually read the bill, has no idea whats actually in it, and both sides right and left are just bitching for no reason and our system has officially been fucked by special interest in every hole.
Mar 23 2010 7:21PM
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chicken
Posts: 6843 - Karma: 2,123
it seems like obama is trying to help but really I don't get what it is going to accomplish. I mean I love our public health care up here, but this new bill isn't really moving the US in that direction is it?

To me it seems like they are just adding some rules to keep the insurance companies in check. I mean if it is the insurance companies that are a problem, why aren't you abandoning that system altogether? Is it the doctors who would be pissed then? sorry I am kind of clueless so I really have no opinion on the matter.

All I know is that whatever we are doing up here in Canada is definitely working for me and our doctors are still driving range rovers.
Mar 23 2010 7:28PM
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PhilboydStudge
Posts: 3431 - Karma: 206
That is the most contradicting thing I've ever read.
Mar 23 2010 7:28PM
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icon1234
Posts: 3081 - Karma: 1,475
Do you think before you type?
Mar 23 2010 7:31PM
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WVskiing
Posts: 3007 - Karma: 1,949
Guys, the bill is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. Its going to supreme court.
Its not health care bill, its a biil for the goverment to control us
Mar 23 2010 7:34PM
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hawaiiansteeze
Posts: 3255 - Karma: 3,226
this is probably the stupidest post ive ever seen
Mar 23 2010 7:35PM
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chase.
Posts: 716 - Karma: 18
i dont really know to much about the subject,
but too me its just seems like its make all the rich people pay for the poor that cant afford it. which doesnt make to much since to me.. cause i think people who work hard for there money should have to give parts of it to the poor just because they didnt work hard and earn some cash.

BUT i think if we should change anything, we should make commercializing medicine illegal, it would cut the cost in medicine almost in have, and no one would need to have health care. i dont know it seem pretty simple to me, because like every dollar that is spent to medicine like 50% of it is spent on advertisment.

thats just my opinion of the whole thing.
Mar 23 2010 7:37PM
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WVskiing
Posts: 3007 - Karma: 1,949
having health care is a right given to you in the constitution, the goverment should force you to buy it. the goverment should not have to provide for you with my tax money, that is socialism.

and nacy paloci is a fat whore
Mar 23 2010 7:38PM
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Midwestjibski
Posts: 1676 - Karma: 77
This man speaks the truth.
Mar 23 2010 7:40PM
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Rez4frederick
Posts: 4740 - Karma: 40
I dont think its gonna affect me. I just pay for my own healthcare, its not really that expensive. Just don't do stupid shit and hurt yourself all the time is what I've learned and only go to the dr if I REALLy need to see a doctor.
Mar 23 2010 7:41PM
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chase.
Posts: 716 - Karma: 18
have my fam lives up in canada and they say that medicine is really slow up there. like my grandpa had a tumor and wanted a cat scan for it, and it took 2 month for it to be done. as in america i would take a week or two. and also you pay for it with you tax, it alot higher in canada. but then again its still probably better than USA so i dont really no what the right answer

cause people are greedy haha
Mar 23 2010 7:43PM
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dangerdad
Posts: 2228 - Karma: 317
As a college student who is an economics major, broke, and extremely nervous about whether I will be able to ski or not after college because of coverage.

Here are the PROS of the bill:

Health insurance reforms - Starting this year, health insurance carriers would be forbidden from placing lifetime dollar limits on policies, from denying coverage to children because of pre-existing conditions, and from canceling policies because someone gets sick. Parents would be able to keep older kids on their health insurance coverage up to age 26. A new high-risk pool would offer coverage to uninsured people with medical problems until 2014, when the coverage expansion goes into high gear. Major consumer safeguards would also take effect in 2014. Health insurance providers would be prohibited from denying coverage to people with medical problems or charging them more. Health insurance carriers could not charge women more.

SO.....

1.) No more unethical Insurance company BS.
2.) Health care is required - thus an economic stimulous for a struggling industry
3.) I am covered until I am 26 under my parents plans. AWESOME! I can pursure true life goals w/o worrying
4.) Those who cannot afford HC will be assisted


I for one see a lot of positives and few negatives. 

ALSO, not all skiers are rich. Look at the majority of the really good am/pro skiers you kids look up to. They sure aren't rich.
Mar 23 2010 7:44PM
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WVskiing
Posts: 3007 - Karma: 1,949
people who want the goverment to pay there way are bumbs. i want to pay for my health care, not someone else money and a lot of the money is lost in the processs
Mar 23 2010 7:45PM
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PhilboydStudge
Posts: 3431 - Karma: 206
Really? That's weird, because I'm pretty sure it was definitely about health care. It'd be a very far reach to say that the government is controlling us directly from this bill.
Mar 23 2010 7:53PM
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Dr._Steezetastic
Posts: 27 - Karma: 10
i can vouch for the guy saying he's broke in college. im so broke i had to sell my skis.. all i got left is my boots...
Mar 23 2010 7:58PM
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jason...
Posts: 9006 - Karma: 780
Because American's are stupid. They bitch and complain about how they want change so obviously Obama is elected to office. Then as soon as he tries to change something (health care) to a system that is tried and true worldwide all everyone can do is bitch about it.
Mar 23 2010 8:02PM
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Deletedtoday
Posts: 4060 - Karma: 398
honestly if you look at the bill it just screws us into buying shitty healthcare.
Mar 23 2010 8:05PM
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-ShredTheGnar-
Posts: 2038 - Karma: 111
Majority of people i know including myself that ski are broke cause we spend money on skiing rather than rent etc. so that statement is wrong.
Mar 23 2010 8:11PM
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fatherb
Posts: 1510 - Karma: 173
I agree. This bill is a mess, see how long it'll take you to get a simple dr's appointment when 35 million more peolple are waiting in the the same line as you.
Mar 23 2010 8:22PM
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tride
Posts: 1038 - Karma: 26
Sorry to point out the obvious but...

You can't even spell simple words (their, government, bums, process, etc), yet you want to debate health care reform?

Maybe you should focus a little more on education for the moment, and worry about politics later.
Mar 23 2010 8:26PM
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Mstchief
Posts: 751 - Karma: 524
To understand why this is such a big deal you have to look at the American political system. It long ago stopped being about what needs to be done to help the country and has changed into a dualistic system in which you can only be on one side or the other.
Now being the Liberal I am im going to lay blame for a lot of this on Republicans (although the dems have plenty of problems themselves). Their strategy for the past 10 years has been to focus on issues that divide people but have little impact on the health of the nation such as Abortion or Gay Marriage.
Fast forward to today and they are still following the same strategy of opposing any form of health care reform and making it seem like we are turning into Soviet Russia. They believe that this will play well for them in the elections this November. All the while thousands of people are going bankrupt because they simply cant pay for their health care.
I was really proud of what happened on Sunday. I takes awhile but real change really can happen in this country.
Mar 23 2010 8:42PM
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leahey
Posts: 2548 - Karma: 32
It means, some things aren't coverable by insurance, and when they are, it still ends up coming out of your pocket one way or another.
Mar 23 2010 8:45PM
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teleTay
Posts: 2320 - Karma: 186
i think alot of people think that if the government does more things like this we will become more socialistic. and people who work for things dont want to see other people get their stuff without working for it?

i.e.

you have nice stuff because you work hard

and dont want people who dont work hard to have the same stuff?
Mar 23 2010 8:46PM
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powninja
Posts: 1053 - Karma: 242
This^
Mar 23 2010 8:49PM
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Mstchief
Posts: 751 - Karma: 524
so your saying we are all ranked in order of our hard work? So Bill Gates is the hardest working man in America and all the homeless people on the street are just lazy... ah why didn't i see this sooner
Mar 23 2010 8:51PM
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ski_DC
Posts: 1347 - Karma: 58
A big concern with this bill is how healthcare providers will be compensated. It isn't right that someone who paid for 8 years of higher education to have their income docked as it might be under this bill. Essentially, this bill was not developed correctly or constitutionally. The bill was dropped into the senate's lap with little time for them to consider it, especially given its voluminous nature. Also, there is a lot of stuff in this bill that is in no way related to health care. Things were tacked on, piggy backing, in essence, to the bill, which is not right. I can't recall specifics, since I have not been paying this bill enough attention, but I know this was a big issue. Also, it is telling to look at the numbers in the house. Every single republican, and a decent amount of dems voted against the bill. This means that the bill is not simply a partisan issue, and due to its controversial nature, the way these numbers break down is worth noting. And I would not say that americans are all stupid, that kind of mudslinging won't get you anywhere. It would be safer, perhaps, to claim that a great deal of Americans are ill informed, but the same could be said for canadians, brits, aussies, and so forth. Lets keep the focus here on the bill, not on patriotism and anti-americanism
Mar 23 2010 8:55PM
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nickyp
Posts: 5673 - Karma: 215
You can pay for your healthcare. You can pay taxes that will fund healthcare.

The only difference being is that when you don't need it, instead of insurance companies collecting your premium, it will benefit another human instead.

And more money is lost through Insurance companies charging actuarially unfair rates to consumers, than is in socialised healthcare.


Once you have it, you'll enjoy it.


And by the looks of your post, the US government needs to regress the neocapitalisation if its education system too...
Mar 23 2010 8:57PM
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chase.
Posts: 716 - Karma: 18
concurr
Mar 23 2010 8:58PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
What this means for skiers: -not having your policy cancelled/not having a huge premium increase if you tear your ACL or other injury. -increased peace of mind: knowing that you can ski to your heart's content and an accident cannot cause you to lose your coverage. -better coverage overall: less dealing with healthcare companies over whether your injury is covered and more time recovering. More time rehabbing for next year's season, less time waiting to know whether your insurance will cover your surgery.
Mar 23 2010 8:59PM
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_nicota_
Posts: 70 - Karma: 4
I personally have witnessed both the public health care system which Canada has, and the private health care system of the US. I am a dual citizen for Canada and the US, and both have their pro's and cons of health care.

Canada does and awesome job when it comes to simple fixes such as a broken bone or when you need a few stitches here and there. However because the doctors are not paid as highly as those in the US there are far fewer specialists and the brightest doctors from Canada as a result normally work in other countries where they can be paid more.

The US on the other hand is a bitch if anything happens to you and you don't have health insurance. Be prepared to be paying bills for the rest of your life, and say goodbye to your savings account. But what this does mean. is that those with health insurance don't have much to worry about. Also because of the private system doctors are paid far more then they are in Canada, attracting better doctors from around the world.


To make the story short. If you have minor injury (something which is not going to require extreme expertise) a public health care system works to your benefit. BUT if you have a serious health problem, one which requires top professionals, you are only going to find one of those in the US (not saying that American doctors are better since a large amount of them are from foreign countries).

this only covers one minor issue, also there is the fact that there is no money to fund the health care plan, and that the government has done a very very bad job at explaining what the health care plan means to American citizens.

*end wall of text, just my view on it from personal experiences*
Mar 23 2010 9:02PM
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no_steeze
Posts: 23992 - Karma: 4,272
because half our country is focused solely on what will benefit them RIGHT NOW. with zero views of the future we immediately hate everything that's a slight inconvenience. having to pay more tax is a huge ass inconvenience for people because it inhibits them from buying more doritos as opposed to offering them healthcare when they get heart attacks from eating so many doritos

we convince ourselves we're so fucking scared of governmental tyranny when we should be focused on the fact that we are a fat, incompetent nation that needs some form of reform before we rape ourselves with debt and idiocy. idk it fucking annoys me when people bitch about obama being a socialist and how 'a new era of governmental tyranny' is gonna plague our lovely nation. shut the fuck up and go do something productive. truth is, somebody had to start taking steps forwards and digging us out of a hole, sad fact of the matter is that whoever does that will be hated
Mar 23 2010 9:06PM
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ski_DC
Posts: 1347 - Karma: 58

one more thing, as this pertains to skiiers, or any athlete for that matter:

This healthcare bill can in some cases limit which doctor you see, when you see them, and how you are treated. As humans are intrinsically motivated by external forces, doctors are more willing to do complex operations when they are properly compensated. Not having to deal with medicare (I am speaking in the immediate present here) is one big factor. One of my good family friends is a highly respected orthopaedic surgeon here in the DC area, and the thing he hates most of all is dealing with medicare and medicaide. Its more paperwork for him, which means he is doing less doctoring and more busywork, or spending more money paying people to do it for him. Also, under this centralized healthcare, it could be hard to see a specific specialist at a specific time. I was seriously injured playing football and the only reason I can still ski, write, or move my arm at all now is because I told the ER doctors who wanted me to go a completely uneccessary procedure to fuck themselves and called my ortho friend on his cell, who had me on the operating table in under fifteen minutes. under the proposed healthcare bill, I would not have had that luxury. and yes, it is a luxury. I strongly believe all people should have access to affordable healthcare. However, i think doctors and citizens who can afford to do so should be able to opt out the system should they choose.

Mar 23 2010 9:10PM
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tride
Posts: 1038 - Karma: 26
A new candidate for "most over-exaggerated and ridiculous statement ever" right there....
Mar 23 2010 9:16PM
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exile_ch
Posts: 715 - Karma: 609
This is SO right... Any idea coming from the democrat part, Republicans will be against it and vis versa.

And to people saying Obama is a socialist: you've absolutly NO IDEA what socialism is.

For exemple, France has one of the best if not the best healthcare system wich is run by the state. In 2000, the world health organisation (WHO) ranked France first in its survey of health care systems. French citizens have universal health coverage that's provided by the government. Funds come from required contributions from citizens based on income.
Yet France's President, Sarkozy, is from the RIGHT political wing ! So trust me, if France isn't a socialist country, USA isn't.

So stop bitching about this healthcare reform. It's about damn time USA comes to par with the rest of the world caus' you were way behind on this aspect.
 
Mar 23 2010 9:26PM
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WikiWiki
Posts: 5584 - Karma: 426
you would be referring to the patriot act- and I am pretty sure its not unconstitutional- Obama is a harvard grad in constitutional law- he most likely would have made sure it was - along with about 800 politicians
Mar 23 2010 9:30PM
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fatherb
Posts: 1510 - Karma: 173
unfortunately there is one other thing people have to deal with, and its called life. Not every bum on the streets can be as succesful as bill gates, and chances are that most people with jobs worked harder than those who are homeless. This is the way things go and its not "unfair" at all. Socialism is not answer. Lot's of countries tried it, and it hasn't always worked out.
Mar 23 2010 9:38PM
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chase.
Posts: 716 - Karma: 18
theyre we go... thanks you i completely agree
Mar 23 2010 9:44PM
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exile_ch
Posts: 715 - Karma: 609
For fuck's sake buddy, this IS NOT socialism. EVERY western country has a government's run healthcare system. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

Is Germany a socialist country? Is England? France? Switzerland? Norway? and so on... NO, they're not. And trust me, their healthcare system is way better than what USA is used to. But you're too brainwashed and close minded to see that.
Mar 23 2010 9:45PM
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MALONE
Posts: 3819 - Karma: 73
well you cant be denied due to previous conditions. thats whats up
Mar 23 2010 9:49PM
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chase.
Posts: 716 - Karma: 18
too bad our plan is completely different than all those countries.
Mar 23 2010 9:54PM
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no_steeze
Posts: 23992 - Karma: 4,272
too bad it's STILL not socialism
Mar 23 2010 9:55PM
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Static
Posts: 8552 - Karma: 4,062
too bad our public education system is
Mar 23 2010 9:56PM
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PhilboydStudge
Posts: 3431 - Karma: 206
Like what countries? The USSR? Yeah, no. Every western country besides the US has some form of government run health care, and guess what? They all have higher standards of living than us. This health care bill is not socialism.
Mar 23 2010 9:59PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
I've lived in England and Germany for several years, and that is one of the reasons why I prefer private health care.  I am comfortable with the idea that I (or any American) controls their well being by purchasing their own health care or choosing not to.  I don't like the idea that earning $200,000 a year will automatically qualify me to pay for someone else's abortion (ya, it's in there), knee injury, etc.

By definition, some parts of government run healthcare are socialist ideas, but that doesn't mean your country is automatically "Socialist".  We have all kinds of political philosophies coursing throughout our government, and anyone who tries to put one name on it is a fool.

so·cial·ism
1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work don

See, look at me go!  Using the dictionary without calling Obama a socialist, I'm not a moron.


I love discussing politics, but the name calling and lack of humility makes it a pretty useless endeavor on NS or most other internet forums.  Please call me out if I made a mistake up there, this is simply what I understand and I'm always willing to learn from mistakes.

Also, (for the rest of the thread, I saw this 4 times) the word "have" means to own or possess.  The word "half" means 1 divided by 2.  If you can't spell 1st grade words, do you honestly think anyone takes you seriously????
Mar 23 2010 10:01PM
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