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I need a diagnosis for my ON3Ps...

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PULSEofdaNATION
Posts: 426 - Karma: 51

Alright so I was up today at my home mountain and was hitting the terrain park most of the day. On one of the first hits in the park, I threw a 5 and got the rotation around, but got way to backseat and slammed the tip of my ski into the ground. These were my new ON3P Jernimos that I had only ridden once prior to today.

When I landed I slammed the tail of my ski into the ground and it ejected, but when I put the ski back on, the tail was wayyy more rockered then the other. After further investigation, I found that I cracked the top sheet right where the tail starts to rise up.

So I was able to ride on it the rest of the day and didn't really notice any significant problems, but I am not sure if it will just break more the next time I crash.

What should I do? I plan on talking to Scott tomorrow about it, but what is your diagnosis for my problem??

Ill add some pirctures soon.

Mar 14 2010 11:41PM
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P.opsicle
Posts: 478 - Karma: 29
Sounds like you've broken your core. Not good.
Mar 14 2010 11:44PM
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ace_
Posts: 3189 - Karma: 39
i think your skis are broken, not sure though. could be the reverse polarity mangets that on3p uses in their rocker to give you better bounce through the powdery stuff.

this is all speculation, however
Mar 14 2010 11:44PM
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pigglywiggly
Posts: 4482 - Karma: 305
yeah man. if your topsheet is cracked then your core usually is as well
Mar 14 2010 11:46PM
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heFF
Posts: 5786 - Karma: 4,456
sounds like a pilot error and not a manufacture error...get your 5 game on lock
Mar 14 2010 11:50PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
Need pics to really see, but sounds like you broke it.  It happens with any ski since every piece of wood is unique (that's how my original Rossi Scratch's died :(       ).  Definitely under warranty though, and I bet you can finish your season on them before you send them back.  Scott will help you out for sure.
Mar 14 2010 11:53PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
99% sure you're covered by our warranty. Send us a picture tomorrow and give us a call whenever's convenient to confirm, we'll set you up with another pair.
Mar 14 2010 11:57PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
oh that was you? i was the one on blue steeles

for sure talk to scott
Mar 14 2010 11:59PM
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PULSEofdaNATION
Posts: 426 - Karma: 51

Click for larger image

Click for larger imageClick for larger image

Sorry for the shitty quality but here are some pictures of it.

Mar 15 2010 12:29AM
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AcidKing
Posts: 284 - Karma: 10
by the looks of it i think you broke a ski
Mar 15 2010 12:30AM
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j.bird
Posts: 6680 - Karma: 15
LOL...

Diagnosis? YOUR SHIT IS FUCKED. How could you even think anything otherwise? Topsheet crack? Your entire ski is cracked/broken...

Send em in, I guarantee they will hook you up with a new pair.
Mar 15 2010 12:32AM
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Forkstealer
Posts: 508 - Karma: 16
I have seen skis get bent really fucking far eating shit switch and the owner just bent them back and went on his way, they skiied fine after. But dude, your ski is snapped all the way through....
Mar 15 2010 12:54AM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10447 - Karma: 10,018
The topsheet and laminate are definitely broken, but I won't know about the core until I see em back here.  Any impact where the ski tip/tail is going into the snow super hard and folding isn't good for the ski, obviously.  Anyway, shoot me that email when you get around to it and we'll get them figured out. 
Mar 15 2010 2:33AM
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Alex_G
Posts: 11902 - Karma: 1,019
SIPPIN
Mar 15 2010 2:35AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
That is one hell of a warranty... doesn't sound like an error in manufacturing.
Mar 15 2010 2:36AM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
Ya good lord, now that I can see the pictures....that is not their fault.  How the hell did you land that far back on a 5???
Mar 15 2010 2:54AM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Seriously! I'm pretty shocked if those get replaced because no other company would do that and it's not like on3p has a ton of spare sticks lying around. It really sucks that happened on the 2nd day, but crashing backseat and folding the ski under you is going to break just about anything. You must have hit pretty hard to fuck them up that badly.
Mar 15 2010 2:57AM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
Agreed, they aren't exactly made to flex that way.
Mar 15 2010 3:00AM
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TristanVesely
Posts: 23 - Karma: 13

Exactly what my Rossis did but right behind the binding.

Cracked your core dude. However, yours is pretty close to your tip so you could prolly just ride em until they snap...

Only if they're not covered under warranty tho

Mar 15 2010 3:18AM
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Ian.Ham
Posts: 1687 - Karma: 1,153
I broke 3 pairs of skis in one season doing that exact thing.
Mar 15 2010 4:29AM
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Rosbif
Posts: 2543 - Karma: 930
Really? Lots of companies would warranty that. I'm sure ON3P are great skis, but if that happened I would for sure expect them to be warrantied.
Mar 15 2010 5:07AM
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CaliforniaDouble
Posts: 218 - Karma: 22
wtf, am i tripping out? i swear Rowen posted something yesterday about bamboo cores being bomb proof and unbreakable. i wrote back a question/comment about how i thought/think the cores aren't really structurally critical and that it's the glass/carbon fiber layup around it that provide most of the strength... now i'm not seeing this. am i missing something or did a mod remove this? what gives?
Mar 15 2010 1:24PM
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Billiards.
Posts: 6853 - Karma: 816
.
Mar 15 2010 1:32PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
You're nuts. Manufacturer's warrantees are for manufacturing defects, not for you fucking up. Let's say you buy a laptop and get the extended warrantee. On the way home from the store you trip, fall, and land on top of your sparkly new computer smashing it into ruin. You think that shit's getting replaced? Good luck with that.
Mar 15 2010 1:34PM
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General_Ripper
Posts: 3327 - Karma: 189
Ive landed like that before and my ski havent broken.
Mar 15 2010 1:42PM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10447 - Karma: 10,018
You're not tripping.  I deleted it because I didn't think Rowen saying the cores are unbreakable or whatever was in the post was accurate.  After the page reloaded, I scrolled down and saw there was a quote or two, and to avoid making it seem like some big secret thing by having a quoted response say "posted removed" or whatever, deleted the response as well. 

Sorry I should have PM'ed you, but I pop in and out super fast and don't have a ton of time these days.

As far as structural integrity, core material, thickness profile, and composite layup are all important.  A thick core with too little/light composites or a thin core with a lot of composites can both break.  As for materials, you will get some variance, but it isn't as significant as core thickness and composite layup. 

We use bamboo because it is damp but really responsive, a quality that we really like.  It is definitely a strong material, but no material is unbreakable. 

So, I would say that core material isn't the most structurally critical factor, but core thickness is as important as composite layup. 

In the case with a impact like this, there are a ton of different factors and sometimes a ski will break, other times they will bounce away and be fine.  Just landing with the tip in a slightly different way can be the difference as to whether to tip catches and the ski breaks, or if the ski flexes a bit and a large part of the impact is absorbed.

There isn't any noticeable deformation of the edge/sidewall in the photos, so the core is probably in better shape than the photos make it appear (this is, of course, without actually seeing the skis).  I am guessing the impact just caused the laminate to release from the core and break.  It looks to be right at the end of the running length, so for him to use them the rest of the day and have no real noticeable problems would make it seem unlikely, to me, that the core was actually broken.

But we'll see.  Maybe it is broken in two and I will have to eat what I said!

Regardless, whenever he shoots me an email we'll have him send them in and see that it gets taken care of.  As JD said above, I don't believe this is a mfg defect (this is, again, without seeing them), but we will still see that he gets taken care of.
Mar 15 2010 1:54PM
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Ski.Ballet
Posts: 2860 - Karma: 200
^Further proof that ON3P has the best customer service.
Mar 15 2010 2:01PM
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CaliforniaDouble
Posts: 218 - Karma: 22
No worries. Thanks for the response and information.
Mar 15 2010 2:16PM
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SnowRidgeParks
Posts: 2146 - Karma: 88
My respect for ON3P keeps growing by the day, true professionals. Started my new arsenal of ON3P sticks this season with the caylors (which are the craziest, funnest ski I've ever been on). I'll be looking to add to my quiver with some park sticks and an all mountain cruiser from ON3P next season. Keep up the good work fellas, service like this is super refreshing to see nowadays.
Mar 15 2010 2:26PM
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Peach.
Posts: 3879 - Karma: 933
A company that cares about it's customers. That's refreshing.
Mar 15 2010 3:11PM
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ace_
Posts: 3189 - Karma: 39
well duh. they sell very few skis compared to your k2 or armadas. handling much less warranty and customer service needs than the bigger companies. making it much easier ( shouldn't say easier ) but less of a hassle than lets say a hundred at a time.

Not bashing on3p though by any means, obviously great customer service and good to know they care.
Mar 15 2010 6:16PM
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Rosbif
Posts: 2543 - Karma: 930
Laptops aren't made for dropping on the floor though are they! Skis are made for jumping. I have snapped skis from rossi and volkl and had them replaced, probably no manufacturing defect in them either.
Mar 15 2010 7:12PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
Ya, but that's not the same as flexing the ski the complete opposite direction it was designed to go at full speed.  I've broken a pair of Rossi's in front of the bindings and they were not warrantied.  Each case is different.
Mar 15 2010 7:16PM
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no_steeze
Posts: 23992 - Karma: 4,272
haha exactly
Mar 15 2010 7:35PM
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Baskin.
Posts: 1387 - Karma: 13
same thing happened to my friend on both tails of his skis doing a punch front...it was hilarious to see some major tail rocker on mini invaders that were way to small for him.He got the A-bangs now with look jibs and is very protective of them
Mar 15 2010 7:36PM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
I was scared I broke my afterbangs the same way one day. They bent a right angle but were ok.
Mar 15 2010 7:49PM
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Moosen
Posts: 4285 - Karma: 2,585
Yeah looks like that happened right after where the core ends and goes to the tip spacer. should be good as far as not having a cracked core.
Mar 15 2010 7:53PM
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Literature
Posts: 13673 - Karma: 3,085
I think it's a bit closer to the binding than the tip spacer; this placement fits with where the crack in the photo would be on my Jmos. Note that the sidewall is thicker where the crack meets the edge of the topsheet.
Mar 15 2010 8:28PM
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Moosen
Posts: 4285 - Karma: 2,585
ahh yup i see now. picture made it hard to tell.
Mar 15 2010 8:58PM
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Ryan_BC
Posts: 109 - Karma: 11
That sucks... i would be soo rattled
Mar 15 2010 9:29PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
At the same time, warrantied skis are considered in the bottom line. It's not like ON3P is hooking this guy up with a free pair of sticks and taking this huge, unexpected cost.
Mar 15 2010 9:38PM
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Pahina22
Posts: 151 - Karma: 13
it would make sense that your skies would have some type of warranty . If not I would email the company with your story, the pictures and a link to this thread. Dont be an ass in the email, be polite and professional. Let them know you bought their product because you expected them to deliver a quality product and that you enjoyed it for the short time that you used it. Let them know how disappointed you were that this happened, and that while you previously held their brand in high regard, if their product cannot handle what you were doing with it that you might have to take your business elsewhere in the future on top of recommending others to go elsewhere.

I have done this in the past with other products and close to 100% of the time you will get an apology from the company and and offer to replace your broken product free of charge. It cant hurt to try so you should give it a shot.
Mar 15 2010 9:54PM
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TWoods
Posts: 10014 - Karma: 8,386
You must not have read the thread.
Mar 15 2010 9:58PM
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KennyC
Posts: 1922 - Karma: 46
seems like this has happened alot to ON3Ps... hmmmm
Mar 15 2010 9:58PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
If you're going to post this you gotta abide by the rule.

Pics or STFU
Mar 15 2010 10:06PM
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Brock.
Posts: 5698 - Karma: 1,332
how much do you weigh!!?? no offense, but you need to be pretty hefty to do that to a ski...
Mar 15 2010 10:17PM
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Ace3+4
Posts: 1493 - Karma: 50
Dude, many companies care about their customer's. Warranties are a very touchy topic, and most people abused it to much which got ourselves where we are today, battling to have our actual defects warrantied.
Companies are also in the game to make profit, and although it sucks that a certain person might have made a mistake on his second day, shit happens and it shouldn't be the company that has to loose money.
Big props to ON3Ps if they go through with this nonetheless.

Mar 15 2010 10:35PM
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noparking
Posts: 1123 - Karma: 50
Care to elaborate? B/c looking around on NS and TGR I don't believe I've read about anyone having this problem. If you're going to make such a bold statement you should try backing it up with some factual information.
Mar 15 2010 10:44PM
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J.D.
Posts: 21362 - Karma: 5,142
Hahaha are you serious? On3p is Scott and Rowen busting their ass making skis. They don't have an accounting deparment taking into account and hedging insurance risk. This isn't K2. If they warrantee a pair, that's a pair they didn't sell, which is a couple hundo out of their pocket that would've gone to groceries that instead just bought materials... not to mention some labour time. Every warrantee costs a small company a quantifiable amount.
Mar 15 2010 11:46PM
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Shadows
Posts: 8068 - Karma: 43
i agree with all your posts but really, if those guys are willing to do it give them props! dont try and bring them down for being legit as FUCK.
i havent paid for skis in years because i have a solid relationship with dynastar but they are a big company. most of my skis sent back had no warranty issues. they were just old and kevin out in the UT service dept hooks it UP!
Mar 15 2010 11:50PM
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iggyskier
Posts: 10447 - Karma: 10,018
Ummm...excuse me?  Care the elaborate?

This has happened to all of....one pair.  I can currently count the number of skis we've had to warranty on one hand.  We don't sell thousands of skis like huge companies, but where we sit right now, our warranty rate is under 2%  That will go up as people get more time on the skis, just sort of the goes with any sort of manufacturing business like this....

But to post that it "seems like this has happened alot to ON3Ps" when so far we are, again, at:

One pair....

is pretty interesting.

As for the skis - talked with james today who said....
"So after breaking them in the morning I went out and skied on them for a good 3 hours, lapping the park, landing switch and took them off a 18 footish cliff and they held up fine."

Well....not something I would recommend on broken skis, but the core of the skis has to be intact for him to do that....
Mar 16 2010 12:41AM
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