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Binding gurus, i need your help

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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,354
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So heres the deal. I have never skied these amplids. My friends just told me that today his toe piece ripped out of his amplids because the screws were not going straight into the hole. After he told me of his story i remembered that mine had something funny gap goin on in the heel. So i go check it out to see if i was just being crazy before and indeed i was not. (note: we use the same shop) The gap is about 1.5mm at its widest margin. Im planning on going into the shop tomorrow to get this fixed. I just want to get the opinions of some of the gear savvy people on this site, would the gap going to negeatively impact my ski? Would it increase the chance of a rip out?

skis are cholesterones/ binders are rossi freeski xl's

sparknotes: small gap inbetween heel piece and ski, bad/dangerous?
Feb 20 2010 7:34PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,354
the gap is only on one side of one heel piece
Feb 20 2010 7:35PM
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Jules.
Posts: 768 - Karma: 9
This is amazing. I feel for you and your friend.
Feb 20 2010 11:36PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,354
i like your sig...is the last part becuse you like to put heli's in all your skis?

lowblow...i know
Feb 20 2010 11:45PM
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Kryss
Posts: 28 - Karma: 26
Can you see the side of the screws in that gap? It's sort of hard to tell what's going on from the pic and I'm no expert but regardless, take them back to the shop to show them and ask about it. At least then, if the bindings end up ripping out you won't be having to try and explain how they were mounted poorly.
Feb 21 2010 3:01AM
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SteveXs2
Posts: 7922 - Karma: 40
Is the gap right under the screw? If it is, they didn't tighten it down all the way. It happens. If it's somewhere else in the binding, it should be ok.
Feb 21 2010 3:10AM
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mmallender.
Posts: 5805 - Karma: 936
what do you mean one side of the heelpiece, like the back vs the front, or like the back but the left vs the right?

if its the first then at the back some bindings do have a really small shaped gap at the back behind the screws to accomodate flex?
Feb 21 2010 5:56AM
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AlexF
Posts: 271 - Karma: 206
A buddy of mine ripped out his toe piece and I think the cause was the same issue you have. I looked at that ski and his other ski and the heel piece on his pulled-out ski as well as the nose and heel piece on his ok all seemed to have a bit of space/play between the binding and ski under the screws. Although he is a very big guy he's not a particularly good skier and I saw the crash where he pulled out the toe piece and there is no way the binding should have come out. Basically the shop tech who mounted them must have been drunk, stoned and/or an idiot. Took the skis back to the store and they immediately remounted all his binding pieces. You should do the same.

If the binding screws haven't gone deep enough then they won't have as much area to distribute the load across the screw/ski interface, which will make the bond weaker straight off. Also, if there is a bit of play then this can lead to uneven load distribution and bigger stress concentrations which can result in failure at much lower forces. Also the binding/ski interface will be at lot less stiff, about 1/4 to 1/5 of the stiffness depending on the way the load is transferred from the binding to the ski. The factor of 1/4 or 1/5 is due to what Engineers would call a change in effective boundary conditions from a clamped plate/beam to a hinged plate/ beam. Yes... I'm a geek (doing a PhD in Mechanical Engineering).
Feb 21 2010 8:10AM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,354
back of the heel piece but left vs. right. more pics are coming to shoe you what i mean
Feb 21 2010 12:25PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,354
here is the one with the gap:
Click for larger image

and here is the opposite side of the same heel piece:
Click for larger image
Feb 21 2010 12:31PM
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rozboon
Posts: 1642 - Karma: 868
My Hellbents went like that, it was because one of the bindings was sliiightly pulling out for half a season or so. When the heelpiece finally ripped out completely we found that water had got into the threads and ruined the core... those skis are now hanging from the wall in my room. Get it seen to.
Feb 21 2010 8:01PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,354
well it turns out that not only is there a gap, but the bindings arent centered between the sidewalls....fuck yea. i feel like an idiot for not noticing that from the get go. so ya, gonna go to the shop tomorrow when they wont be busy and im just gonna have them order me a different pair of skis because this is bullshit.

think i might get a pair of moment ruby's in 180. any opinions on them or other skis similar? big, fat, no rocker, not deathly stiff. those are my only conditions on the ski i need
Feb 21 2010 8:15PM
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teamdummy
Posts: 1188 - Karma: 2,604
i bet your shop didnt have a jig for those bindings and tried to freehand mount them and screwed em up. its totally possible to freehand mount bindings, i do it, but it takes a lot of time and patients to get it right. if you paid for that i'd be mighty pissed
Feb 21 2010 9:40PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,354
exactly what happened. i took them to the shop at bachy. the techs said since this ski is so wide they probably didnt have a jig that fit, so they just set the jig on the ski and eyeballed it. pretty fuckin lame, but im gonna take care of it tomorrow. its really lame because i really like the dims/flex of the cholesterones, but now they cant be mounted where i want them
Feb 21 2010 10:12PM
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Ben.
Posts: 21463 - Karma: 683
tell them to replace the ski. they should they messed up
Feb 21 2010 10:59PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,354
i would, but its the 08-09 cholesterone with regular camber. that ski wasnt made this year so it might be hard to replace.
Feb 21 2010 11:30PM
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SteveXs2
Posts: 7922 - Karma: 40
That's pretty shitty. Smart thing to do would have been to place the jig on the ski and measure until it's dead-centered between the sidewalls, tape it down, and drill it. But it is hard for ski techs to have to mount skis that fat, especially when binding companies don't make jigs wide enough. As far as that gap, though, it looks like they just didn't screw it down all the way.
Feb 22 2010 12:25PM
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El_Barto.
Posts: 11661 - Karma: 24,354
luckily the owner is super chill and is taking care of it. i feel sorta bad for him because within the last week 1 tech managed to fuck up 3 pairs of fat skis (2 cholesterones/ 1 2010 s7) and mount them all crooked. i would not want to be that tech when he shows up for work next
Feb 22 2010 4:13PM
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