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Full Tilt rip offs

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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,684
so I found a company called Roxa who is copying Full Tilts designs.
To see them go here:
http://www.roxa.com/products/free-ride/freesound/

those are abviously direct copies of Full Tilts new wider lasted boot. The shells are exactly the same, all they did was change the color and liner. You have the Rodeo and the Freesound instead of the Booter and High Five.

How lame of them to stright up copy Full Tilts brand new design. And it was very disrespectful of them to rush the production so they could sell them for the past few years before full tilt was able to relese them.

It really bugs me when a company like full tilt who puts so much money, time and energy into R&D to bring new and inovative products designed with the newschool movement in mind, gets abused like this. Especially since the company in question, Roxa, is obviously not even a core company, with no ties to the freestyle or core market. I mean they also sell rental ice skates. This really bothers me since Roxa is selling those boots for € 200, (~$275) which is less then Full Tilt will probably sell them for.

We should all write to Roxa, and tell them how disapointed we are that they copied full tilts design and are attempting to undersell them.
Feb 17 2010 10:55PM
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.brian
Posts: 1710 - Karma: 233
no. thats what the new full tilts are based off of. if you noticed thats this years collections. full tilts don't come out until next year.
Feb 17 2010 10:57PM
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Calb3rt
Posts: 6005 - Karma: 2,203
yeah thats what i thought.
Feb 17 2010 10:58PM
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BossHogg
Posts: 189 - Karma: 19
if im not mistaken, they are owned my the same people
Feb 17 2010 10:59PM
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joshua
Posts: 5046 - Karma: 1,280
Those are hideous looking.
Feb 17 2010 10:59PM
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Balto
Posts: 25985 - Karma: 4,404
you guys, do you really think Billy is serious?

Click for larger image
Feb 17 2010 11:00PM
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.brian
Posts: 1710 - Karma: 233
fuck, it seemed serious.
Feb 17 2010 11:03PM
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xxMdahlxx
Posts: 552 - Karma: 15
I like how those boots have different colorways available for one model of boot. More companies should do this
Feb 17 2010 11:06PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6674 - Karma: 10,977
Definitely true that Full Tilt uses a Roxa LOWER SHELL for their new Influence series of boots.  They, however, did redesign the rear spine and tongue to produce a better flexing, more powerful boot (the Roxas are absolute mush).

Companies that use other companies molds (and especially their factories) is nothing new and this is what a lot of companies were forced to do during the recession if they wanted to have a new product in the market place.  Especially a small company like Full Tilt (yes they are owned by K2 but the budget K2 gives FT is retardedly small).

Take NORDICA and TECNICA for example.  You think their "new" 2011 Enforcer boots and 2011Agent 120 boots are actually a new design?  Look closely- they are the same boot.  In fact, they are old Dolomite 98mm molds.  That's two companies using the SAME older mold from a different company.

Every company wishes they could have an infinite budget where they could come out with new products every year and make everything their designers dream up.  However in a real world environment plagued by recession, sometimes this is what you get.
Feb 18 2010 8:53AM
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xxMdahlxx
Posts: 552 - Karma: 15
wow, you make really good posts
Feb 18 2010 8:58AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,684
It's the same spine. And stiffining the young does not really count as changing the boot.
Feb 18 2010 3:18PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6674 - Karma: 10,977
I'm on the development team for FT, so I definitely understand the struggle between what designers/developers want to do and what the company gives them for a budget.  It can be super frustrating at times when you say "here is the boot we want to make, it will cost about $X" and then the bean counters give you 1/1000 of $X and say "here you go".  Super frustrating.

There are SO many good ideas on paper, fully designed, ready to roll.  It's crazy.  But it's a money thing (or lack thereof), it always is.
Feb 18 2010 3:25PM
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c.hale
Posts: 636 - Karma: 50

no kidding. one of the most quality ns'ers

Feb 18 2010 4:21PM
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PhuzzyWuzzy
Posts: 358 - Karma: 82
This thread made me lol. 
Feb 18 2010 10:35PM
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prontocuts.com
Posts: 5244 - Karma: 42
Not to mention molds for any product are STUPID expensive to create. I was talking to an engineer for 3M and one of his molds for a highlighter was 500K
Feb 18 2010 10:56PM
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0101010101010101
Posts: 30 - Karma: 10
those look terrible
Feb 18 2010 10:57PM
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TheFlyingHonky
Posts: 339 - Karma: 13
So is the roxa as good as the rest of full tilts line? and are the roxa lower shells only used on the 102mm boots?
Feb 18 2010 11:39PM
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PhuzzyWuzzy
Posts: 358 - Karma: 82
Only the wider boots use this shell. 
Feb 18 2010 11:42PM
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Malcolm
Posts: 15951 - Karma: 9,451
get roxas just doesnt sound good to me
Feb 18 2010 11:43PM
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TheFlyingHonky
Posts: 339 - Karma: 13
Oh ok thanks
Feb 18 2010 11:44PM
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Uncle_Remus
Posts: 1880 - Karma: 368
Well. the first paragraph explains alot. i am going to have to belive that FT did change the spine around then.

lastly i would love to be in your head looking at new tilts!
Feb 19 2010 7:55AM
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Lemuel
Posts: 14502 - Karma: 10,730
Learn to read kids.
Feb 19 2010 9:01AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6674 - Karma: 10,977
The boot board had to be fully redesigned too, specifically in the heel.  Durometers of plastics had to be reconfigured, especially in the tongue and spine, because Roxa's original boot is very very soft.  It's a similar looking boot, but it has undergone a lot of improvements for sure.
Feb 19 2010 9:48AM
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shreditor
Posts: 51 - Karma: 37
I'm working in a ski shop who sell both of full tilt and Roxa boots and I can tell that the roxa really more wide (104mm shell!!!) too wide for park.  I'm skiing this year with the Full Tilt Seth morrisson pro model and I never love a boots like this...
Feb 19 2010 11:05AM
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FullTiltBoots
Posts: 477 - Karma: 2,761
the onenerdykid speaks the truth. thanks for setting the record straight mysterious boot man!
Feb 19 2010 1:43PM
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iFail
Posts: 2066 - Karma: 65

yeah, the SPK width is too wide for park for people with wide feet who need wide boots.  Everybody should be in the Lange race width.

This thread is pretty funny.

Feb 19 2010 1:53PM
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shreditor
Posts: 51 - Karma: 37

The Roxa freesound got 104mm width...I know only two boots who got this...Lange Blaster 8 and Atomic B70...The Spk is more tigth than this boots and fit pretty well 99% of every feet...Full tilt are even more tigth yes I admit that its more difficult to fit in it...But the fact is that if your feet is too wide for an SPK you got a problem...Roxa is the solution for this type of feet but that's it...And by the way the Lange race width (depends of model) is 98mmm...Just like Dalbello Tanner Hall pro model...

A tigth fit is really better than a loose fit that a lot of skier will find in the roxa freesound...

Feb 19 2010 3:59PM
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KennyC
Posts: 1922 - Karma: 46
those are ugly. but i did like that hot chick on the rodeo link ;).
Feb 19 2010 6:14PM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6674 - Karma: 10,977
hahahahaha, so mysterious....
Feb 19 2010 6:45PM
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jibberjabber26
Posts: 34 - Karma: 77
BossHoggif im not mistaken, they are owned my the same people

Yeah they are
Nov 13 2014 6:12PM
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ZachAndCheese
Posts: 816 - Karma: 5,116
If you think that Full Tilt and Roxa are the only boot companies using three piece, Raichle Flexon molds you are sadly mistaken. Dalbello's Krypton line, Nordica's Ace line and even some newer Atomics (not 100% about this). Most screw with the last, flex, buckles and liners a bit but they're super similar boots.
Nov 13 2014 6:32PM
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ZachAndCheese
Posts: 816 - Karma: 5,116
If you think that Full Tilt and Roxa are the only boot companies using three piece, Raichle Flexon molds you are sadly mistaken. Dalbello's Krypton line, Nordica's Ace line and even some newer Atomics (not 100% about this). Most screw with the last, flex, buckles and liners a bit but they're super similar boots.
Nov 13 2014 6:32PM
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[nick]
Posts: 1043 - Karma: 423
ZachAndCheeseIf you think that Full Tilt and Roxa are the only boot companies using three piece, Raichle Flexon molds you are sadly mistaken. Dalbello's Krypton line, Nordica's Ace line and even some newer Atomics (not 100% about this). Most screw with the last, flex, buckles and liners a bit but they're super similar boots.




I can't tell by your wording if you think that all of those boots come from the same molds or not. But just in case, while some of those companies and boots you just mentioned make use of a three piece shell design, none of them are using the same molds. The three piece Krypton and Ace are made using completely different tooling independent of each other by Dalbello and Nordica respectively. Atomic doesn't even have a three piece cabrio style boot.

The only correct thing you said was that Roxa's Freestyle line and Fulltilt's Influence line are popped from the same molds. That happens at Roxa's factory in Italy I believe.
Nov 13 2014 7:38PM
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gnarballsianm
Posts: 621 - Karma: 703
Full tilts are a copy of an 80's design, and what company doesn't copy one another, think about it, without copying Shane's idea and the first inventions of the pow ski, where would be today?
Nov 13 2014 8:15PM
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HuckNorris44
Posts: 1025 - Karma: 2,393
Roxa's "Ages" line looks just like Scarpa boots and the kids line are just Nordica kids boots.
Nov 14 2014 2:08AM
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[nick]
Posts: 1043 - Karma: 423
To add some further clarity, in the plastics/injection molding world it is very common for a company to own the molds for a product line yet utilize subcontractors and outside injection molders to produce the product. It is usually not profitable for the parent company to house its own injection molding operations and technical personnel, so that part of the equations is usually farmed out.

Disclaimer: I believe the following info to be correct, but if anyone from the industry has better info please chime in. Currently, the original Raichle Flexon molds circa the 80’s are owned by K2 Sports/Fulltilt. These molds are housed at La Rocca/Roxa’s manufacturing facilities in Italy where Roxa molds them along with their own line and a few others. In 2000, Kneissl, the company that purchased Raichle in the mid 90’s approached Roxa to mold and assemble boots from the Flexon molds. This venture lasted a few years and then Kneissl dissolved around 02/03 . Then in 2003, Roxa decided to develop a new series of molds and started a line with their own Roxa branding. I believe these are the molds that currently produce the Roxa Freestyle and Fulltilt Influence lines. In addition to producing boots for Fulltilt and their own line, Roxa molds/assembles boots for Scarpa and Nordica as well. Therefore the similarities between their touring and youth lines.
Nov 14 2014 8:49AM
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cobra_commander
Posts: 16909 - Karma: 4,684
Four years later...

I still think Full Tilts suck balls and are a miserable piece of shit for fucking idiots to buy.
Happy?
Nov 14 2014 11:41AM
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funkynuggz
Posts: 353 - Karma: 197
Raichle Flexon and FT seemed to be the same boots, FT jus made them more modern
Nov 14 2014 3:40PM
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B.Quincy
Posts: 1074 - Karma: 963
iFailyeah, the SPK width is too wide for park for people with wide feet who need wide boots.  Everybody should be in the Lange race width.
This thread is pretty funny.


shreditorThe Roxa freesound got 104mm width...I know only two boots who got this...Lange Blaster 8 and Atomic B70...The Spk is more tigth than this boots and fit pretty well 99% of every feet...Full tilt are even more tigth yes I admit that its more difficult to fit in it...But the fact is that if your feet is too wide for an SPK you got a problem...Roxa is the solution for this type of feet but that's it...And by the way the Lange race width (depends of model) is 98mmm...Just like Dalbello Tanner Hall pro model...
A tigth fit is really better than a loose fit that a lot of skier will find in the roxa freesound...


Okay so just wanted to set the record straight here yes the spk shell fit is 104mm.... SHELL FIT..... The actual last is 99-98(depending on which year model one may have) so just saying the spk is not close to as wide as you are talking about so just learn how to read boot info next time
Nov 15 2014 4:50PM
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suup
Posts: 1485 - Karma: 4,367
GnarcoRoxa's "Ages" line looks just like Scarpa boots and the kids line are just Nordica kids boots.

of couse they are. Are they going to drop a huge check to make a mold(s) just for a cheap kids boot?
Nov 16 2014 3:26AM
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