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How does comp judging work?

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Blandct
Posts: 1858 - Karma: 37
I am just curious how judging works. It seems to me that it seems to be a little to subjective. For example Dumont's snow basin pipe runs. His second run appeared to be worse then his first and some how he managed to score better on the second. It seems that they aren't using a good system if things like that happen.

So basically i'm wondering if there is a system for judging or the judges just give a score that they feel is appropriate. Because if you ask me the current way isn't working very well.

Im also wondering what would it take to reform the way it works, because it seems a lot of people don't agree with the way it is. I know not everyone is going to be happy with the judging but there must be a better way then the current one.
Jan 18 2010 6:40PM
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MasterDebater
Posts: 992 - Karma: 27
here's how i understood how it was, and don't see how it could change.

you get marked on:
amplitude
number of hits
technicality of the trick
landings
and a variation, aka spinning in both directions on both walls.
so just cause someone throws a huge trick, and their landing isn't that good, they could get the same score as someone who stomped a less technical trick.

my opinion.
Jan 18 2010 6:44PM
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Blandct
Posts: 1858 - Karma: 37
so how do you decide the technicality of the tricks? do they each have a point value...
Jan 18 2010 6:46PM
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MasterDebater
Posts: 992 - Karma: 27
i have no clue, i aint no judge. ut i'd be interested to know too.
Jan 18 2010 6:51PM
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Blurst
Posts: 13577 - Karma: 10,169
how do you get marked on amplitude and number of hits? Isn't that sort of contradictory?
Jan 18 2010 6:55PM
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ECfreeski3
Posts: 12019 - Karma: 126
i would humbly guess that its just an average of a handful of judges' overall impressions
Jan 18 2010 6:55PM
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MasterDebater
Posts: 992 - Karma: 27
i dunno, that was a guess. it
Jan 18 2010 6:56PM
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skijunkiedtm
Posts: 9229 - Karma: 61
theres also the hype factor.
Jan 18 2010 6:58PM
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Dan-Man
Posts: 7488 - Karma: 3,623
to answer your questoin "how does comp judgin work"=  it doesn't. comp skiing is wack...
Jan 18 2010 7:00PM
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Style+eeze
Posts: 6901 - Karma: 551
no, it's not contradictory AT ALL!

this is what i'm wondering about simon dumont. he always goes big, and always gets a maximum of 5 hits

everyone makes it seem like "oh, he can only get 5 hits because he goes so big"

well here's the solution. he can go as big as he wants, just he has to take off at a steeper angle (more perpendicular to the deck) in which case he will A) boost even higher, and B) get 7+ hits like everyone else

i hate to blow up, but i've always thought this...

so can someone either agree with me or prove me wrong?
Jan 18 2010 7:13PM
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inactive
Posts: 4772 - Karma: 97
word
Jan 18 2010 7:15PM
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MasterDebater
Posts: 992 - Karma: 27
agree and disagree. go more perpendicular=more hits. yes.
does it equal more air? i dunno, if you go more perpendicular, you aren't going downhill as much,.
Jan 18 2010 7:15PM
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inactive
Posts: 4772 - Karma: 97
judging a freestyle sport in my opinion is hindering and contradictory.
this is my opinion
Jan 18 2010 7:16PM
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Kcin
Posts: 1845 - Karma: 58
It seems more opinionated at times than it should be. That's for sure.
Jan 18 2010 7:17PM
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Style+eeze
Posts: 6901 - Karma: 551
yes, but more height for sure
Jan 18 2010 7:18PM
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Holte
Posts: 10750 - Karma: 7,948
There was a very interesting article in either Powder of Freeskier last year about judging. I'll see if I can find it somewhere to repost in here.
Jan 18 2010 7:22PM
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garettnorthey
Posts: 3049 - Karma: 173
I donno about Dew Tour Judging but most judging panels have 5 judges. Amplitude, Technicality, something else which isnt coming to mind right now and then there is 2 overall judges. They then take those scores and times them by a degree of difficulty. I've seen that method used in Aerials and Big Air comps so I am not sure if thats exactly it but my guess is thats the jist of it.
Jan 18 2010 7:31PM
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Omega2227
Posts: 225 - Karma: 11
To me, one of the glaring issues with this style besides everything else afformentioned is because the judges don't want to put out such high scores in the first round.

It happened with SImon and I think it happened with Andreas in the slopestyle.
Their first run may have been better, but they don't want to set the bar too high before everyone else has had their shot to make something stick out in their mind.

Also a lot comes down to what you like to see for style. In Andreas' first slopestyle run, he one footed most of it, and I think didn't score that high because the judges didn't like it.

Think of it this way, next time you watch one of these events. Watch only the run they show, no slow mo or anything, and start giving scores out and see what you come up with. My guess is that many of us would fall into doing the exact same things judges do right now.
Jan 18 2010 8:22PM
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iliketoski329
Posts: 220 - Karma: 34
usually they have some criteria which they look like (in my local comps its usually like 5) they will usually asses one or two of the most important areas first (ie diffiiculty and fluidity of the overall run) then theyll go in and based on the most important criteria, break it down more. Theyll look at style, form, and just smllaer things
Jan 18 2010 8:41PM
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Drail
Posts: 14041 - Karma: 10,293
judging is an interesting thing. I have been a judge, and been judges many many times, and I gotta say, half the time I am the judge, people aren't happy with the outcome, and half the time I am being judged, most of us competitors are scratching our heads when the results are announced. There's even been times - as a judge - where we add up the math, find out that someone has a higher score than someone else, who all us judges agree should actually win and say fuck the numbers, so and so killed it, he wins.


I've also been in a competition where I knew that one of the judges liked certain grabs more than others, so I had an advantage over competitors without this knowledge if I chose to use it... it's just the way judging works. if someone like japans more than mute or tails grabs, and two people throw the exact same trick, one with a japan, one with a tail grab... it's in his nature to score the japan higher. there's fault there, but it's just the way the cookie crumbles, as they say.
Jan 18 2010 9:18PM
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Malcolm
Posts: 15953 - Karma: 9,497
they pick a random number out of the score jar
Jan 18 2010 9:21PM
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Dirac
Posts: 1304 - Karma: 335
I'm not sure about dew tour, but this is how a lot of pipe comps are judged

http://www.fot.ch/doc/HP%20Judging%20Criterias.pdf




Jan 18 2010 9:28PM
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Dirac
Posts: 1304 - Karma: 335
sorry here is the link.

Jan 18 2010 9:30PM
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Blandct
Posts: 1858 - Karma: 37
interesting how the judge FIS evetns
Jan 18 2010 10:35PM
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AzzisaF@G
Posts: 19 - Karma: 10
for skiing? whoever gives the best head
Jan 18 2010 10:42PM
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Willard
Posts: 5117 - Karma: 429
bingo
Jan 19 2010 12:38AM
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Malcolm
Posts: 15953 - Karma: 9,497
pun intended?
Jan 19 2010 9:20AM
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P3TER
Posts: 972 - Karma: 438
How do they score grabs?
IMO it should be 40-50%
Feb 7 2010 12:18PM
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JahJahBinks
Posts: 3567 - Karma: 461
Uh oh, I remember this alias....
Feb 7 2010 12:23PM
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Fischer-Addicted
Posts: 1064 - Karma: 30
well if its xgames big air 09'. they judge by asking random people who have no idea what freeskiing is to txt with who they thought had the best trick.
Feb 7 2010 12:24PM
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highindasky55
Posts: 624 - Karma: 32
Judging of a freestyle sport is never going to be perfect. "Freestyle" implies that you are free to have your own style. And obviously different people are going to like to see skiers with different styles, there's no such thing as a right way to do it. So basically OP the answer is it doesn't work.
Feb 7 2010 12:37PM
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WadeM
Posts: 33 - Karma: 14
Please go and really RIDE SOME PIPE and you'll see that if you boost straight up high off the wall and don't get much travel you will lack amplitude a lot exept for the very first hit but you get more smaller hits into your run!
Feb 7 2010 1:05PM
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casual
Posts: 6712 - Karma: 6,751
You're wrong.

Simon goes as big as he does because he travels down the pipe a great deal, and takes a less severe angle.

Think about it....he's traveling downhill gaining momentum. If we were talking about a vert ramp, then yes, you'd be right.

Not trying to be a dick, but it seems like you probably haven't ridden much pipe.
Feb 7 2010 1:26PM
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skichicky3
Posts: 2593 - Karma: 64
my threads for later
Feb 7 2010 1:37PM
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panojibber
Posts: 3382 - Karma: 216
Word, not to mention that its fucking hard as shit to boost straight up a pipe wall. I've gotten like 8 or 9 feet out and I had to travel like made down the pipe to stomp it. Its a technical aspect of pipe skiing that can't be avoided. More height = less hits/more travel.
Feb 7 2010 1:51PM
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P3TER
Posts: 972 - Karma: 438
and that is where progression comes along. Because who ever can match the transition and pump hardest will get the best of both. Thats what im working on with my pipe game.
Feb 7 2010 3:24PM
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panojibber
Posts: 3382 - Karma: 216
Its a good thing to work on, pipe isn't like jumps where you can go tiny and learn shit. You need to be able to get clean, solid hits and then the tricks come super easy.
Feb 7 2010 3:38PM
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P3TER
Posts: 972 - Karma: 438
for the pros in pipe right now the judging is probably about who can throw the most doubles
Feb 7 2010 4:05PM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
I think the nearest halfpipe to me is at least 4 states away and even then it probably doesn't meet the specs of what they use in x games or the olympics. Its almost like aerials because its on a very specific ditch of snow and even though they throw crazy shit on it I don't get that stoked on it because there is nothing like it that I can go out and relate to. I like slopestyle and freeskiing contests a lot better just because they are way more fun to watch for someone who lives in the mid atlantic.
That being said there isn't any kind of steeze or stoke calculus for us to determine who the best skier is. If you don't like being judged don't enter judged contests.
Feb 7 2010 4:29PM
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EC-Skier
Posts: 3899 - Karma: 668
every judge is different.  some look for amplitude, others tricks, and others number of hits.  there is no set code or whatever
Feb 7 2010 7:29PM
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panojibber
Posts: 3382 - Karma: 216
Okay, that's just ridiculous. Pipe is waaaaaay harder than slope will ever be. It takes so much skiing ability, skill, edge control, and technique. It is NOTHING like aerials. Not hating, I understand you don't have access to one.
Feb 7 2010 8:19PM
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Big_Spence
Posts: 16177 - Karma: 4,346
poles=higher score.
that's all you need to know.
Feb 7 2010 8:23PM
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hjb
Posts: 742 - Karma: 40
That PDF was really good to read.  Don't suppose you've got one for slope?
Jul 13 2010 12:39AM
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wintersway
Posts: 5115 - Karma: 128
not necessarily. the way he enters and exits the pipe allows him to pump harder. if he were to exit more perpendicular to the deck, he would also be fighting the direction the pipe wants him to move... which would cause a loss of speed and air after one or two hits.

im sure dumont has considered many an angle to boost out of the pipe for smoothness, confidence, and trickability

Jul 13 2010 1:15AM
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