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Binding Heel Piece Problerm

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MattWeiss
Posts: 1005 - Karma: 377

Ok, so this is not a din or forward pressure problem, but for the second season in a row, I have some how managed to rip the heel piece out of the ski (striping the screws out of the wood) while skiing.  The bindings were the look P10 pivots, and Rossi 120xl, both of which are high backs.  When it happened last year, the shop put helicoils in and re-mounted the heel piece, only for me to just rip them out again on a nose butter. 

My question is, has this happened to anyone else?

And, what should I do, get the helicoils put in or sack up and get a better pair of  bindings like fks or jesters?

Help is much appreciated (+k)

Jan 12 2010 7:54AM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
damn man! this makes me feel uncomfy; i had the exact same thing happen last year with my marker m14s, shop drilled in some helicoils as well...
let's hope my binding holds up this time....

and as far as goes redrilling; if you rip out helicoils you're fucked; it's almost impossible to remount on the same place; they'll probably have to move the binding back or forth a little....


Jan 12 2010 8:01AM
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MattWeiss
Posts: 1005 - Karma: 377
yeah i know i had to get new skis after i ripped the helicoils out last year.  I just dont know if its worth getting the helicoils put in or just getting a better binding that wont rip out
Jan 12 2010 8:12AM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
i doubt the problem is your binding...

it's either your shop that drills them wrong, overtightens, uses wrong screws, etc..
or your skis core is moist...
or your binding is too narrow profiled for your ski; what are you riding?
Jan 12 2010 8:15AM
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MattWeiss
Posts: 1005 - Karma: 377
last year it was line invaders, this last time i ripped them out of some boone magic sticks (93mm waist)
Jan 12 2010 8:19AM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
definately not too narrow for those skis...


Jan 12 2010 9:39AM
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MattWeiss
Posts: 1005 - Karma: 377
yeah so either everyone in the shops in my area fuck up or i just need different bindings? thanks for the help man
Jan 12 2010 9:42AM
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Twig
Posts: 6417 - Karma: 60,329
I have had this happen to me too. I'd say its about a 95% chance that your shop just isn't that good and has fucked up. When I went to a better and more expensive shop, my pullout problem disappeared.
Jan 12 2010 10:18AM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
Let me get this straight: you pulled out 2 different bindings out 2 different skis, 2 seasons in a row?

So either way you've just had bad luck 2 times in a row or your shop has messed up (since i understand both skis were mounted at the same shop? right?)

now i don't wanna go point finger at your shop but things seem like it...

All the reasons i can think of (right now) why bindings would rip out are:

Shop-related:
_Didn't use the jig correctly (or didn't use one at all) and drilled the holes slightly wrong, thereby causing unnecessary tension between the screwholes...
_Drilled the holes too big for the screws (used the wrong drill...)
_Didn't seal off the drillhole with some sort of woodglue to keep water out (reason; water slowly penetrates your core through the drillholes; softens up the wood and your binding rips out)
_Overtightened the screw; recommended force = 4-5 newton-meter force/screw.(this strips the drillhole and makes it too big for the screw; same result as drilling too big...)
_The shop used the wrong screws; they were too short for your binding/ski

Not shop related:
_You did some realy gnarly stuff on your skis.
_You stored them somewhere cold and moist
_ you didn't fix core shots and water penetrated to your wood core
_The binding is crooked; when the binding is let's say "bent" in some way (highly unlikely) it can topple and rip out bindings (it has extreme leverage)
_Your screws loosened up (can also be shops fault, but this can happen...) your binding vibrates the screws out off the ski...
_manufacturing error; skimanufacturing mishaps happen more often than you'd think....
_backward brake: I've seen bindings get ripped out by binding brakes: when you ski very fast and your ski ejects and lands somehow backwards in the snow, your brake digs into the snowpack and the forward momentum of your ski causes the brakeplate that's attached to the binding to come off... (very unlikely but i've seen it happen; might also 've been due to other unknown issues with the ski/binding)

so now you know as much as i do; draw your conclusions....
Jan 12 2010 10:23AM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
^^about the overtightening of the screws: 4-5Nm is perfect; any more momentum will strip out the hole (my wording wasn't very clear ...)
Jan 12 2010 10:25AM
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MattWeiss
Posts: 1005 - Karma: 377

yeah they were mounted at the same place (i think) and the only gnarly things that I do that would have this effect are nollies and nose butters, neither of which would be that gnarly to really mess it up like that.  thanks for all the help

so what should i do, have them put the helicoils in, or mount a new binding?

Jan 12 2010 11:04AM
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MattWeiss
Posts: 1005 - Karma: 377
bump, someone help me out.  Is it worth buying new bindings that will hold in better or just go for the helicoils and see how long that lasts?
Jan 15 2010 7:42AM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
if you're happy about the bindings performance (besides the ripping out)
i'd suggest you keep the bindings and let the shop (maybe try another shop) put helicoils in your planks...
Jan 15 2010 8:37AM
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PhuzzyWuzzy
Posts: 358 - Karma: 82
Bring them back to the shop and tell them what happened, and how it shouldn't have happened.  Tell them you want them mounted correctly this time, by their best technician, free of charge and see what they say.  If they give you any trouble politely ask to speak to their manager.  Also, don't be a dick about any of this. 

If they continually say no and you just know that they are not going to say yes, then feel free to be a dick.  You could mention that you Dads a lawyer and has won cases like this before, or how they have lost your business forever, and how you plan on telling everyone you know not to go there. 

Seriously, it's probably the shops fault though. 
Jan 15 2010 11:07AM
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MattWeiss
Posts: 1005 - Karma: 377

funny thing is most of that wont work cause i already know all of the people that work in the shop and they we already done free of charge, so it looks like im gonna give the helicoils a go and if they pop out again...well new bindings i guess

thanks for the help guys

if there are any better options, lemme know it will be much appreciated

Jan 15 2010 2:49PM
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Sean.Mc
Posts: 534 - Karma: 1,132
Wow dude ive had the same problem i ripped my pipe cleaners out 3 times last year and this year it happened to my suspects twice.
Jan 15 2010 7:38PM
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CJ_S
Posts: 543 - Karma: 312
What shop did you use, Buckeye or Sun Valley
Oct 9 2013 8:18PM
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Montana_Hoodrat
Posts: 1953 - Karma: 1,481
MattWeissfunny thing is most of that wont work cause i already know all of the people that work in the shop and they we already done free of charge, so it looks like im gonna give the helicoils a go and if they pop out again...well new bindings i guess
thanks for the help guys
if there are any better options, lemme know it will be much appreciated


The bindings aren't the problem. Maybe the screws? I know when screws rip out the threads can become rounded and grip the wood less. helicoils suck. Don't go that route if you don't have to. just remount them behind the existing holes, and fill the old holes properly. Also make sure the shop uses wood glue or some sort of sealant in the new holes before installing the binding.

Happy buttering!
Nov 1 2014 10:36PM
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