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Immediate response in emegency situation

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the-big-lepowski
Posts: 1212 - Karma: 541

Last Thursday, I came over a jump and found my friend lying below with his helmet another 30 feet below him.  He had one arm in the air, his eyes wsnowboarder ere rolled backl, and he appeared to be having a seizure.  I put my gloves behind his head to cushion it and then hiked to block off the jump.  I called ski patrol by shouting up the lift, and then I waited at his side.  I didn't think to ask him standard "where do you live" "what day is it" questions because I assumed patrol would do that in their assessment. His twitching continued for a few minutes and I was quite worried by the time patrol got there. 

4 days later, he is back in school with a broken humorous and no memory of 20 minutes surrounding his overshooting the jump.

I hated the feeling of helplessness and kept cursing myself that I wasn't confident that there was nothing else to be done.  This is the second time I've dealt with a friend immediately after a concussion, and both times I felt like I could have done more to help.

I would appreciate it if someone could compile a sticky thread or maybe even a front page article describing the steps to take when you or a companion is injured.  As with avalanche rescue, the first minutes are the most critical, and often your own party can help as much as ski patrol.  If you're prepared...

Thanks, KiP

Jan 10 2010 11:38PM
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SteezyasPie
Posts: 1160 - Karma: 15
That's why I think everyone needs to be First Aid/CPR/AED certified.

But this is a solid idea, some of the younger members might not know what to do (though you would hope most would) so maybe a front page article with basic information about how to reach ski patrol, how to block off the person properly, and what not to do (in case of liability problems with giving first aid or CPR instructions over the internet)
Jan 10 2010 11:50PM
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Malcolm
Posts: 15951 - Karma: 9,451
i think its a really good idea to have a stiky on what to do if someone gets hurt. my friend had a concussion a few years ago and we had no idea what we were doing.
Jan 11 2010 12:07AM
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1337
Posts: 31054 - Karma: 29,234
my friends brother was saved by his friend when he ran head first into a lift pole, he broke his neck, and the kid he was with was smart enough to take his jacket off and pack snow around his back and neck and not to move him. Knowing your stuff can save someone's life.
Jan 11 2010 1:07AM
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nickyp
Posts: 5673 - Karma: 215
This
Jan 11 2010 9:38AM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
I think CPR/AED/BBP and First Aid training should be a national requirement for high school curricula. But I agree that some kind of sticky or section should have something similar to what was suggested. I don't want to see instructions on CPR/AED (due to obvious legal issues), though.
Jan 12 2010 2:16AM
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wintersway
Posts: 5115 - Karma: 128
my health class (required to pass in order to graduate) had a cpr and first aid course in it, which was an assessment (if you fail, you have to try again until you pass) that we had to do with dummies and everything and we all got certified. that was sophomore year and i cant remember everything, but it gets drilled into our heads well enough that i can still remember most of the cpr guide (at least enough to do something until help arrives)

my teacher was a certified instructor though, which i doubt is available in tons of schools.

this should start to be mandatory in most states, as it is something that could be needed at any moment in life.
Jan 12 2010 3:29AM
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sconniestyle
Posts: 3945 - Karma: 26
this is a good idea, but ns would have to be careful if they went ahead with something like this and be sure they don't give out info that could make them liable for lawsuit in the event that someone tried what was suggested and it contributed to further injury/death.

i think it would work best as an article on the front page. if they were to interview someone like the head of patrol at a resort, they could give some good basic advice on how to stabalize an injured person until qualified responders are on the scene and not get into the type of responses that could end up doing more damage if you aren't certified (like cpr, etc...)
Jan 12 2010 12:15PM
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no_steeze
Posts: 23992 - Karma: 4,272
i'm gonna get come form of first aid certification in the next few years

i think everyone should know how to respond
Jan 12 2010 11:40PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
Unfortunately the only real solution is to take a class, though. Red Cross CPR/AED/BBP and First Aid courses are very thorough and practical--plus they don't take too much of your time relative to the benefits to be gained. The key is to get recertified once your certs expire. And as nomensteven suggested, OEC courses are never a bad idea either. I'm certified in Red Cross CPR/AED/BBP and First Aid, and I can say that while I hope I'll never have to use what I learned, I feel more confident knowing that I would be able to do so in the event of an emergency.
Jan 13 2010 1:17AM
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wheres_my_snow
Posts: 473 - Karma: 11
you basically did all you could for a seizure give them a pillow and stand back watch so they don't hurt themselves    between boyscout and life guarding i feel quite good about my first aide skills  but yea i think seizures are mad scary  i witnessed many and experienced one its real hard to watch
Jan 13 2010 5:17PM
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connory998
Posts: 1197 - Karma: 34
my school does the exact same thing. and the person that does it is just a student's mom who took a couple day long course to get certified then takes a 1 day refresher once a year.
Jan 13 2010 7:56PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
TGR has a series of backcountry awareness videos posted on their home page, put on by BCA.

http://www.tetongravity.com/videos/Level1-B-C-A-Avi-Rescue-Series-Lesson1-The-Importanceof-Training-843089.htm

Something like this, while certainly not a replacement for a real avy course, could go a long way. I don't see why ski patrol at Mt. Snow or Breck or something couldn't do a video series showing what to do in the event of an injury in the park.
Jan 14 2010 12:24PM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,750
it's really hard to just do a step by step because there are so many variables. the general thing i'd say would be, if it's a high impact accident or there's even the slightest chance they hit their head do not move them until patrol gets there, even hold their head perfectly still in whatever position it was in.  and dont try taking off their helmet or anything.
Jan 14 2010 12:27PM
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steezyjibber
Posts: 15967 - Karma: 11,026
very good idea
Jan 14 2010 8:12PM
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corona
Posts: 12795 - Karma: 32,750
https://newschoolers.com/web/forums/readthread/thread_id/514384/
Jan 14 2010 8:18PM
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KarmaInitiative
Posts: 2028 - Karma: 174
whenever im at a mountain for a more than a couple days i put their ski patrol number in my phone, havnt had to use it yet but if something happens you can let patrol know right away
Jan 14 2010 9:15PM
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steezyjibber
Posts: 15967 - Karma: 11,026
solid post, +karma
Jan 14 2010 9:16PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
A video series could do it, but it would be substitute to actual training.
Jan 15 2010 12:07AM
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camski26
Posts: 679 - Karma: 16
such a good idea. i want to learn this stuff myself and be a ski patrol sometime maybe, but not a bitchy one that doesnt let us newschoolers have fun. like stated above with putting the number in your phone, i do that too. it could make all the difference if nobody is around.
Jan 16 2010 11:48PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
*no substitute
Jan 17 2010 1:11AM
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jeremy.g
Posts: 4931 - Karma: 459
this could definatly be a really good idea. i have seen lots of people go down in the park and the people they are with have no clue what to do which is pretty scary
Jan 17 2010 1:53PM
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PeterWojnar
Posts: 3937 - Karma: 678
Two-way radios are a must, even when resort skiing. Many resorts have a channel that ski patrol scans, and you can instantly report problems and get some qualified help. If you know the area, you can usually shout out a location and a quick description of what the problem is, and the clsest patroller to you will come. It's much faster than callig a phone that only gets answered by one person.

Radios are also a must if you go out of bounds- skiing with buddies means you go one at a time, about 3-600 vert feet at a time, and report conditions to those above you whenever you stop. Snow was powder up top, but the landing looks sketchy? Tell your buddy. In fact, if you think it is bad enough, tell him not to go. I'd rather ski around a cliff and find out the landing was perfect than air it and find out the landing was ice.

CPR and first aid are a must- if you are in the back country, and a spinal injury occurs, you need a backboard. No makeshift shit unless you really CAN'T get help. If that is the case, make a board using your fallen friend's skis and poles. Make an x pattern with his poles, and lash his skis to the x. You should always have duct tape, some cordage, and zip ties. If you don't, the straps of your backpack will do. Use the backpack itself as a headrest, with found sticks for support. Attach your own poles to the front, and use them to pull. Do not go faster than walking pace, and pick the flattest, mellowest line you can. Only do this until you can reach help, or call in someone with a real backboard.

And please don't do anything stupid, be it before OR after injury.
Jan 18 2010 6:05AM
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SKIU4EA
Posts: 2387 - Karma: 2,072

My friend blew up at the bottom of a landing.  He shook himself off and we went back up the chair.  He kept asking me the same exact question probably 5 or 6 times.  I thought he was being funny until he started asking me what hill we were at and who drove.  This was probably 8yrs ago.

I agree with op that we need to have some protocol for situations like this, and maybe warning signs of concussions because I was completely ignorant and did close to nothing to help.  Looking back on it makes me realize wouldn't hurt to educate kids in the park.

Jan 18 2010 8:17PM
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Crack.
Posts: 6020 - Karma: 84
I'm certified in lifeguard/first aid training so for the most part i've got about all the knowledge I really need at my age.
Jan 18 2010 8:59PM
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PeterWojnar
Posts: 3937 - Karma: 678
Actually, there's a really really good tutorial on making a makeshift sled/backboard thing in the newest Powder Magazine, and there's a very similar one in a SKIING mag a year or two back.
Jan 19 2010 9:46PM
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Zoro
Posts: 1253 - Karma: 37
you cant do anything while their having a seizure, just let them be and move anything out of the way they might hurt themself on.  there a 3 stages of seizures but i cant remeber the names. first-your whole body stiffens up and you lose concious.  second- you body starts shaking uncontrollably and your body uses up all your energy.  third- your pretty much sleeping. allot of people freak out at the third stage thinking the person is dead but its just your body recovering.  you couldnt have done anything for your friend infact its probly better that you didnt until ski patrol got there
Jan 19 2010 10:49PM
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vincentlee223
Posts: 1571 - Karma: 382
Yeah cpr/firstaid/oec training was really good for me. I had to take it to become a Jr Patroller at my mtn and this course helped alot. I wouldnt be the number one patroller to call in a huge emergency , thats why im a jr patroller, but i know symptoms of problems and can call in code reds if i know whats going to happen. I also know basics of of first aid like bandaging/slinging. I really recommend it.
Jan 19 2010 11:51PM
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the-big-lepowski
Posts: 1212 - Karma: 541
thanks for all the feedback. I understand the legal complications, but that shouldn't stop it being done. A simple disclaimer would do the trick. And yes, I do plan to take CPR/first aid, but haven't scheduled it yet. Any mods care to add?
Jan 28 2010 6:47PM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
Post your safety tips in here. Hopefully this thread will create a better understanding on NS of the inherent risks involved in skiing and ways to prevent injuries.

https://newschoolers.com/web/forums/readthread/thread_id/518302/
Jan 31 2010 2:15AM
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