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AR6 vs. Pipe Cleaner vs. Alpha 1

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curt_
Posts: 450 - Karma: 556

im saving up for a new park ski and right now i have the ar6. i like the way it ride but it chips so easy. the rockered park ski looks fun to ski. and does the pipe cleaner have a chipping problem?

Dec 21 2009 2:20PM
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iFail
Posts: 2066 - Karma: 65
every ski has that problem. metal hitting something like wood, plastic, abs, whatever, is going to chip it.  I like PCs more than AR6s for everything.  keep them waxed and they are faster and lighter, and carve better.  preferance though..AR6s have a closer to equal tip and tial flex, while PCs have a fairly soft tip and medium+ tail.  Underfoot and out a bit on both sides is stiff on PCs and AR6s..
Dec 21 2009 2:34PM
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curt_
Posts: 450 - Karma: 556
ok thanks does the pc top sheet chip really easy?
Dec 21 2009 2:39PM
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iFail
Posts: 2066 - Karma: 65
Yeah, but all do.  At a certain point it gets a bit rounded and stops chipping mostly..hard to explain but it's fine.  Chipping doesn't effect performance.
Dec 21 2009 3:13PM
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Chrris
Posts: 568 - Karma: 211
Dude, Armada makes quality skis, yet shitty top sheets. That's how it is. It doesn't effect the ski so why get another ski that will have the same problem if your trying to avoid chipping top sheets?
Dec 21 2009 6:44PM
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curt_
Posts: 450 - Karma: 556
i know the topsheet doesnt affect the way they ride. im looking for a new set of skis for next season. i always buy at the end of the season because its always cheaper so im lookin at wich ski to get
Dec 21 2009 7:02PM
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Dustin.
Posts: 13839 - Karma: 7,704
So....you want to buy a ski based on it's topsheet?  They are all great, but I have no idea what you are looking for in a ski.
Dec 21 2009 8:18PM
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PhuzzyWuzzy
Posts: 358 - Karma: 82
Pipe Cleaners have a very high maintenance base on them.  As a result, they are very fast, but they need to be waxed very often, like pretty much every time you go skiing.  If you don't wax your skis much, don't get the Pipe Cleaners because you will be disappointed, otherwise, they are a great choice. 

I might be wrong, but arn't the AR6 and Pipe Cleaners pretty much the same ski, just with different bases?  The AR6 having a low maintenance, slower base than the Pipe Cleaners. 
Dec 21 2009 11:11PM
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cbeebzthasteeze
Posts: 1862 - Karma: 85
No one has mentioned anything about the Alpha 1's yet...
Dec 21 2009 11:26PM
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PhuzzyWuzzy
Posts: 358 - Karma: 82
If you spend some time filing and sanding the edges of the topsheets to round them off, they won't chip as easily.  I did this with my Fischer Addicts and it worked great. 
Dec 22 2009 12:10AM
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onenerdykid
Posts: 6656 - Karma: 10,859
The ski molds are slightly different but not enough to really tell.  It comes down to core (lighter and more pop) and base (faster, but more maintenance).  Think of the Pipe Cleaner as a higher end AR6.
Dec 22 2009 12:17AM
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Blurst
Posts: 13577 - Karma: 10,169
I have the alpha 2 and love it.
Dec 22 2009 12:37AM
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KRAMPUSNTROLLZ
Posts: 2715 - Karma: 355
yeah from personal experience i have owned both the ar6 and the pipe cleaners. The pipe cleaners are the better ski and you will probably like them better but you definitely have to maintain the bases filling more small shots cause they seem to get more than my ar6 bases did, and waxing them very often.
Dec 22 2009 1:57AM
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Dr.Rick_Marshall
Posts: 407 - Karma: 44
Alpha one is an amazing ski.... If you want to try something new and amazing go Alpha one. Super light, stable, yet so easy to butter because of the rocker. All around a great ski, great quality. Downsides are that they are expensive and they dont hold an edge on groomers/icy conditions as well as a traditional ski.
Dec 22 2009 1:58AM
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PhuzzyWuzzy
Posts: 358 - Karma: 82
Thanks for the clarification! 
Dec 22 2009 11:12AM
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schillz33
Posts: 121 - Karma: 15
Yup Armada topsheets suck, but it doesn't really matter.  I kinda ripped the topsheet on a pipecleaner right off and i don't know how.  The only Armada that I haven't seen chipped as much is last years JJ.  It kinda looks like the topsheet was wrapped around the oustside of the ski on that one rather than just laid out on top.
Dec 22 2009 11:18AM
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PhuzzyWuzzy
Posts: 358 - Karma: 82
Sounds like "Cap Construction" to me.  Most of Armada's skis have true sidewalls, however, which offers better performance, but usually decreased durability, from my experience. 
Dec 22 2009 1:59PM
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sam.gillin
Posts: 905 - Karma: 314
Yeah I've skied my 08 09 jjs like 30 times and they look brand new. I really want to try the alphas. Seem like they would be great.
Dec 22 2009 2:43PM
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BC.
Posts: 1551 - Karma: 86
My 09/10 182 Alpha 2's top sheet is actually pretty durable atm. Have about 10 days on it and its holding up pretty well.
Dec 22 2009 3:24PM
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LMPJibbin
Posts: 1607 - Karma: 17
def not pipe cleaner....id say ar6 but thats only cause i havent ridden the alpha 1's yet so i have no comparison...you cant go wrong with ar6's though



oh and......1000TH POST WOOOOOOO
Dec 22 2009 3:45PM
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PhuzzyWuzzy
Posts: 358 - Karma: 82
Arn't the Pipe Cleaners basically an upgraded AR6s?  Why are you ruling those out so fast? 
Dec 22 2009 6:48PM
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iFail
Posts: 2066 - Karma: 65

Uh, maby decreased durability in topsheet chipping, but saying just decreased durability is stupid.  Sidewalls(done correctly, no Solly edge armour type crap) keep the edge in way better than cap so leads to less edge issues.  Top sheet chipping does not matter.

Also, Armada JJs and ARGs, Alpha 1s and 2s all have sidewall underfoot, and cap in the tips and tails.  It's a smart way to go IMO, because carving a sidewall ski is better than a cap ski mostly becuase of the added edge force underfoot, so you have than and get less chipping, and save swing weight.  That being said I still think the people who like Alphas are often just people who would have liked being on a shorter ski.

Two posts up, you made a worhthless 1000th post there.  AR6s and PCs chip the same and PCs are a better ski.  Good job.

Dec 22 2009 10:48PM
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curt_
Posts: 450 - Karma: 556
k well with waxing them lots i have no problem. i wax my ar6 once a week and im in a family of racers and use to race so thats all good. i know the ar6 has a stiffer tail, is the pipe cleaner like that?
Dec 22 2009 11:14PM
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PhuzzyWuzzy
Posts: 358 - Karma: 82
Yes, I was referring to topsheet durability, sorry if I wasn't clear.  And, yes, sidewall construction does provide better performance than cap construction.  Thank you for the clarification. 
Dec 23 2009 12:41AM
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