What a stupid rule.

it isn't a law, it's an individual mountain's policy, mostly based on their level of insurance coverage.

lol XD

thats gay

this

I guess I must be getting more immature in my old age, but I reject your rant.  I grew up skiing in West Virginia and skied all over the Poconos.  I know the vide there.  Terrain parks have SAVED small ski areas.  It always amazes me when I'm checking out videos that these little ski areas on the East Coast and in the Midwest have these sick parks with all kinds of creative features.  They make Vail look like a bunch of amateurs.  For years, people would only ski these little places if they didn't have enough money or time to go some place else.  The fact is that you don't need tons of vertical to have a great terrain park.  People are now pretty stoked to go ski some of these areas, and they are no doubt seeing much more business as a result.

Ultimately it's going to boil down to a risk vs reward scenario.  If areas take the stance that you aren't allowed to get inverted; they will lose business to areas that do.  My guess is that, if insurance companies examined the statics and compared the sever injury rates (Neck and Back) between areas that allowed inverts vs. areas that didn't; they'd probably find that they are about the same.  If you can't get upside down, you will just go bigger to get your adrenaline fix.  That means more people over shoot the landing hills. 

Bottom line:  Allow more; attract more; make more; get better insurance.  Allow less; attract fewer; make less; have the same insurance; struggle to stay in business every year.

Thank you Mr.Huck, it's not just about some gaper thinking he's the shit and he tries to get inverted. Some owners would rather drive away buisness than risk someone getting hurt.

And anyways, isn't that what the ski/snowboard liability code is for? Every time you buy a ticket, you basically sign away your right to sue the resort, especially when it's your own damn fault.

It's like that at most resorts in NYS, insurance.

yeah, but ski patrol usually doesnt say anything if youre not dumb about it.  like when erik was doing nollie fronts on the last day last year.

Stevey, everyone on here hates you and everyone on TGR hates you. How do you do it?

I do agree that parks are bringing more and more people into these smaller resorts all over the country, increasing skier visits, and just generally getting more people stoked to ski in some places that before seemed less than desirable (insert PA, NJ, MA, NY, etc...   here, they all work for this example).  But there's still a lot of ignorance in your statement, and just in this thread completely!

You say terrain parks saved the areads near you...  But do they all allow flips?  A smaller mountain can certainly have a ballin out park, and not allow inverts.  What's wrong with that?  Does the average weekend warrior going to the Poconos (or wherever else) need to be trying out backflips just because the mountain won't stop them?  They should know what the fuck they're doing before they do it.  Just being able to roll into the park and huck flips just because you can will get certain more people hurt.  Once they know what's up and want to try one, go to a resort that will let you.

Sure it sucks and is unfortunate that some places don't allow it, but at the end of the day it's their fucking mountain so you should respect that decision.  Sorry I'm not jumping on the "let me break myself off however I want bandwagon"  but your logic is almost as weak as the OPs (with a little more thought, tact, and intelligence though for sure).  I watched passes get pulled for inverts as a 16 year old, and it was gay.  But completely understandable, it was posted all over the park "no inverts"

I'm sure every resort would love to "Allow more; to atract more; to make more".... But the reality is that some smaller mountains just don't have the capital to allow more, simply because they can't afford....  insurance, proper equipment to maintain the park, or employees that know what's up and how to patrol it. 

I grew up skiing at Nashoba Valley in Massachusetts.  Biggest piece of shit mountain that puts more lessons through their ski school and has an insane amount of skier visits compared to a lot of the biggest 'resorts' in the country.  They just don't give a fuck about the park (now they do have some rails, but back then... fuck that.) and as far as I know would NEVER allow inverts, just given the nature of the people who ski there.   And oh ya.  Nashoba loses zero business to other resorts that alow inverts...  Kids are bussed there in the thousands almost daily, and don't really have any other options to go somewhere else to do flips, without going hours away.  And honestly, most of the kids there have no business trying them.  The place makes so much money through their after school programs that there's no feasible way it would be considered a good idea to let people flip there.

It's just one example, but in a lot of communities I'm sure there are similar resorts. And people don't always have the ability to just up and go wherever they want just so they can do backfips...  I'd be very surprised that topic comes up in discussion on where the family should go on vacation.  Dad sure as fuck doesn't care if his kids can do backflips, he's probably stoked that they aren't allowed.

Smaller mountains are not going to lose that much business with a no flip policy, unless there's somewhere pretty close that does alow them.  Even then, the clientele that shows up may just change, I don't think you'll see any resorts going out of business becuase of a policy like this.  It's just not enough of an incentive to make it worth paying an assload more in insurance for some mountains.  Maybe they can just get some form of XSI insurance to cover everyone in their park for cheap?  Jokes.

In the end.  It's the mountains decision to make their own rules, all I'm saying is that they should be respected.  And that people should understand that although it is your body, if you get hurt, it can seriously affect a LOT more people than just you.  The amount of ignroance in the "let me do what I want" mentality is staggering.  All of you kids saying that would have VERY upset parents, friends, and loved ones, that will be very much affected should, god forbid, you get seriously hurt.  Don't be so fucking ignorant in the park.  That's exactly how people get hurt.

It's like saying...  "Yo let me in the BC where the avys are, it's my body and I'll do what I want with it!  I don't care the consequences."  Same idea for the most part, but I bet you would be way more hesitant to apply it to that scenario. 

I am not a child.  Just trying to help these children understand WHY resorts are like this before they make incredibly ignorant statements.  :)

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest with you, but, if you are the more mature, highly evolved guy you are selling yourself as; you might want to spend a little more time figuring out who you are calling ignorant.  Let me help you.  I have coached freestyle for over 15 years.  I have taught or coached for 25 years for Vail Resorts, since high school.  I am PSIA level III, USSCA Coaches Level II.  15 years competing on the Vail Demonstration Team, Air Team.  My dad is an Architect and we actually built SnowShoe in WVA.   Reped for Head Skis, skied for Warren Miller.  I've even worked summer mountain seeding, fertilizing and mulching the Rose Bowl at Beaver Creek.   If I'm still ignorant about the Ski Industry at this point; I guess I'm going to die ignorant.  

Well la di da.  haha, that's legit man.  I was not attempting to call you out by any means,  yours was the only legitimate response in this thread.   I guess I should have made that clear.  Pretty much every response except yours is filled with a ridiculous ignorance.  Thanks for bringing some actual thought to an otherwise completely retarded thread.

What Mr. Huck and the OP don't realize, is that we're not talking about a huge corporate resort. We're talking about a small, probably family owned resort. And I guarantee that PA doesn't have the Colorado Skier Safety Act, which almost completely protects the resorts from lawsuits. This resort, like almost all small resorts, I'm sure barely turns a profit every year. And all it takes is one lawsuit and it would be completely put under. So this resort says ok, go huck your backflips, and mr. gaper OP here goes and lands on his head, breaks his neck, and sues the resort. Guess what OP, now you ARE affecting every person that rides there, because the place just got shut down to pay for your mistake.

The back of the ticket Responsibility Code? Doesn't mean jack shit. Every lawyer in the world will get around that in 2 seconds.

Not convinced? Go spend a little time, and educate yourself about RCR and their decision to remove jumps from their resorts. And while you're at it read up on Kenny Salvini, and winning 16 million dollars hurting himself on a jump, where they do allow inverts (he wasn't even attempting an invert).

hm i never thought of it that way

K.  Litigatory BS and the Insurance Industry's response to it has temporarily f'd up just about every cool thing; but only temporarily.  It has the ability to slow progress down, but it has never been able to stop it.  Skate Parks almost went out of existence for 10 years.  They are back now and bigger and better than before. 

Just about every ski area banned inverts at one point; now most don't.  The momentum is going in the direction of less restrictive than more.  The areas that get this now will benefit more.  Within the last 5 years, a guy got really hurt (maybe died; can't remember) in a park at Snoqualmie in Wa. State.  Area got sued and lost.  For whatever reason, Canadian resorts got scared and closed almost all parks.  I got this from talking with the head freestyle coach at Whistler/Blackcomb.  Took less than 2 years for them to bring parks back.  Too much biz being lost. 


Ski areas can do whatever they want and it really doesn't matter what any of us think except that we are CONSUMERS.  If you can do inverted tricks and you have a choice between going to 2 mountains.  1 allows inverts and one doesn't.  Which area are you going to go to?

Forget my experience; that's just common sense. 

pshhh get out there and stick it to the man
or woman it sounds like
what a bitch
h.a.v.e.f.u.n
in the words of my boi will smith
"might as well kick it"
dont you see? this is what he meant !!!!!!!

This is where you're wrong. The lawsuit is the one I told you to go read about. It's the kenny Salvini case. He crashed on a jump, ended up a quad, sued, and won $16 million.

Industry insurance rates are skyrocketing. The industry trend isn't bigger, it's going more towards small jumps, smaller rails, smaller parks. I know, you're a 42 year old still trying to stay hip in the freestyle world, but outside of Breck, PC, and Mammoth, terrain parks are getting small and safer. Skate parks are completely different than terrain parks. Skate parks aren't being groomed, changed, monitored, maintained, and inspected on a daily basis like terrain parks. Limiting lawsuit possibilities and keeping their business alive is the goal of the small resorts around the US. They don't give a shit about progressing the sport.

Yeah, I haven't read the case, but I did spend an hour on the phone talking with a guy who sat in the court room during the trial.  He was one of the guys who came up with the leveling system I,II,III for binding settings.  Pretty sharp guy.  He said that the impact on the industry had little to nothing to do with what the jury's findings were.  A lot of Canadian Parks were closed that have since been reopened.  From the videos, it really doesn't seem like the jumps are smaller and there was a thread on page 1 of SG about a 96 foot rail.  Can't see how that could have been down sized. 

LOL on the hip thing.  I have gone from pro back to n00b.  I'm basically starting over and trying to learn new stuff.  Just more ways to have fun now, and it seems like it's going in the right direction to me.  

haha, were you there when we were all standing next to the jump and erik was getting ready to flip it and ski patrol rolled up and said "I want to watch" so erik had to just nollie the roller - it was so funny.

one of the smartest posts ive seen on here.

to clarify, there was no incident at an RCR resort that caused jump elimination. It was just an "industry leading initiative"

Whilst we are talking about stupid rules ill like to add that my school has the stupidest rule, If you are caught eating or drinking on the street you have to wake up sunday morning and pick rubbish of the streets. This rule still applies if you are not wearing school uniform. Sorry i got done for this he other day and was still a bit pissed about it.

also, only one of the canadian resorts terrain parks were reopened, after the entire mountain had been bought buy a different person.

Right.  Because the kids who want to do backflips are the ones choosing where they go on ski trips?  Or are the ones bringing thousands of dollars to a resort over the years.  Hell no. 

I know you're older and have a long list of credentials, but you seem to be a little disillusioned.  Parents pay for that shit, and most 16 year olds (or even college kids) who would drive around to get themselves to a backflip OK park (the only demographic that this issue is important to), are not bringing much more than money for a ticket, if that.  So the effect that you described earlier is going to be negligible and make no difference in the big scheme of things.  They're not renting rooms, gear, lessons, food, or any of the other things that a ski area really makes money on.

Resorts are not going to go under from not allowing flips.  But as Jblaski put it.... one lawsuit has the potential to shut them down pretty quick.  So where's the incentive for resorts to allow them?  There is none. 

As for the RCR incident.  Do they have parks back now?  I was under the impression they still don't allow them.  And again, I'm not debating having parks or not.  I think every ski area in the country should have them!  It is completely feasible for a resort to have a LEGIT park, and not allow inverts.  It's a pretty simple concept.  And keeps the insurance rates down to a reasonable level smaller resorts can afford, thus allowing parks to spread out to more ski areas around the country.

And it's not really just common sense.  Maybe for a 16 year old looking to do backflips, but if I was a dad (maybe you are?) and had a family vacation to pay for, whether or not my kid can do backflips will have zero bearing on where I choose to take my family.  There are a lot of other factors that are a lot more important.

True, sorry I just lump the two incidents together as one since it had a bigger effect to RCR resorts.

Do they really enforce it though? Like what would happen to me if i did one at Sundown this year?

my main mountain is blue and one of the dudes who worked there got all excited when i did a backflip. prolly just depends on the guy.

This is beat.  I and just about every advertising agency give 16 year olds much more credit for influencing their parents' decisions than you do.  Kind of ironic.  Yeah, I am a dad who just spent hours looking for a Nerf Vulcan Canon for my 7 year old because he saw it on TV and wanted it for Christmas.  Wait until he sees the backyard jib I build for him this spring. 

Obviously, this depends on your perspective.  I see it going forwards; you see it going backwards.  We'll see in a few years who was right.  I'm definitely not disillusioned because I think that the industry gets it and is moving in the right direction.  As a 16 year old, if I built a jump on the mountain, ski patrol would immediately kick it down, X it off with boo, pull my pass, etc.  Now areas build jumps for you.  Isn't that a change for the better?  I just can't see it going the other way and getting more restrictive.  Done.

this rule is dildos. they have it at my local hill but to my knowledge noones ever actually got in trouble for it. even some if the patrol and instructors do inverts sometimes.

How so?  At any point have I said the industry is going to regress?  NO.  I just think you've got some seriously unrealistic expectations for what certain resorts are able to do with the resources they have.  I think a lot of the resorts in the country are most certainly moving forward and letting kids do a lot of crazy shit!  However,  I can think of a lot of resorts that will never be able to make the change to let inverts go down.  For good reason.

As for your decision to purchase based on the Nerf gun ad..... HOW THE FUCK?  is that comparable to making a decision based on something that has the potential to ruin your kids life?  Really?  Did you just say that?

If that was a real gun ad and he wanted it, would you buy it because of an ad he saw on TV?  Probably not (maybe you live in the woods and hunt so idk?)..  A lot of parents out there see backflips (and freestyle skiing in general) as a way for their kid to get seriously hurt.  And they have good reason!  I coached for a few years as well and had plenty of conversations with concerned parents to understand this is how a lot feel.

A backflip has the potential to seriously fuck you up (seen it happen).  It'd be nice to think everyone understands this and any other consequences that arise from hurting yourself, but clearly people are idiots (90% of the posts in this thread prove that).  The nerf gun has no ability to hurt your kid in a life changing way.  Don't compare shit like that.  I know advertising does work on 16 year olds, if nobody else!  But that example is taking this situation way out of context for this discussion.

And quick question...   How much is your homeowners insurance going to go up once they see a backyard setup in the spring?  Oh wait, you probably aren't going to tell them about it because it would be too expensive to keep with your current plan.  Hmm...

Please keep in mind that you are not the 'typical' skier dad that brings his kid to a resort either.  You seem to have a lifelong passion for it.  Not all parents see skiing the way you do. 

yeah dude it's super "gay" what are you 13?

If you can't do flips then why spend time worrying time about it.

Exactly why i don't complain.
But it is BS that i've seen patrollers freak on kids because them themselves didn't know the diffrence between Cork and Flip.

fuckit do it anyways.

Actually, seatbelts are to protect other people as well. Its retarded how manuy deaths a year are from body collisions in vehicle crashes/collisions because people are too lazy/ignant to put a strap on. MMMMmmm strap on..

Same, as long as there is a spin in it, we can do it at my mountain.

They have that rule at my hill. It's a rule thats not really ever enforced.

I would just say it was an accident? corked three got out of control?

My resort says inverted aerials not recommended

come to the magical land of 7 springs PA where everybody does whatever flips they want

the thing about these rules in PA is that they don't exist. NO ONE ENFORCES THEM(i ski PA). thats the bottom line. thats pretty much the deal with those big sgns at the entrance of parks that say FREESTYLE SKILLS NEEDED. because, by entering, you are suggesting that you have sufficient skills, and therefore taking responsibility for yourself (which is supposed to happen when you sign your lift ticket anyway). more importantly though, patrollers know that someone who is inexperienced is just as likely to break their neck just going off a jump as they are trying to backflip. i think we've all seen the gaper who goes super fast and can ttake the tranny and ends up landing on their back/neck anyway. but the rules are there, so that if someone sues and claims they were trying something like a backflip or frontflip, the resort can say "we explicitly outline in our rules that there are to be no inverted aerials." along with those signs at the entrances to parks, it seems to me they'd be pretty well protected. but i guess people keep finding ways around them...

I enjoy being ignorant

My mountain has the same rule, but Im pretty chill with it. Most of our backflip/frontflip jumps are in the trees, and theres not much patrol, so we just throw flips everywhere. Come to WhiteWater!!!!!!!! seriously its got that rule, but no one gives if you throw a big backie outta nowhere.