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Roy Halladay to the Phillies

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Governator
Posts: 116 - Karma: 18
Cliff Lee to the Mariners, Mariners prospects to Toronto, Roy + extension to the phils

not final yet, but

who's pumped?
Dec 14 2009 4:20PM
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anxju
Posts: 9371 - Karma: 61
i think the phils are making a mistake. and john lackey to the sox!
Dec 14 2009 4:26PM
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skier_boy26
Posts: 11295 - Karma: 502
felix hernandez + cliff lee???? Holy fucking one-two pitching punch right there.

Supposedly mariners have to give up morrow (who was picked over fuckin lincecum) for this, but hell yea!
Dec 14 2009 4:32PM
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i.am.a.skier.
Posts: 1158 - Karma: 14

Lackey article:
http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/mlb/news/story?id=4741437

Halladay article:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4742072

and apperantly the red sox and yankees are meeting in their respective season openers

Dec 14 2009 4:33PM
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.frenchy
Posts: 18227 - Karma: 12,372
yay or nay? yay
Dec 14 2009 4:33PM
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Commonwealth
Posts: 3729 - Karma: 11
Beckett, Lester, Buchholz, Lackey, Dice K, Wakefield? one-two-three-four-five-six punch?
Dec 14 2009 4:39PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
Beckett can get erratic, Lester gets flustered sometimes, Buchholz and Lackey I don't know much about, Dice K like killed himself last year, and Wakefield has the knuckleball and not much else. SO I would say the Red Sox have like a one-two-possibly three punch.


And I am a Red Sox fan.
Dec 14 2009 4:43PM
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Brenone
Posts: 4944 - Karma: 296

the phils and mariners made out. i dont understand why Toronto keeps dumping their best pitchers/players in the last few years. they are always feisty and competitive but they play in the toughest division in baseball.

as a yankee fan i was not happy with the Boston trade. their rotation is ridic especially with Beckett coming back at 100%

Dec 14 2009 4:43PM
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Brenone
Posts: 4944 - Karma: 296
*Boston signing. not trade.
Dec 14 2009 4:46PM
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skier_boy26
Posts: 11295 - Karma: 502
That's just being a blind, dumb typical sox fan.

Becket was sporting nearly a 4 era (regardless he is pretty damn solid when he's on, but erratic at times),
Lester is good, but nothing amazing.
Thats like you're 1-2 right there. Not too shabby.

Buchholz... are you serious? Not bad, but a punch? come on now...
Wakefield is probably toast, except that he has the knuckleball.
Dice K... toast.

Mariners, who were the absolute abyss of shitty in '08
Felix - 2nd in cy young hunt (nobody could be greinke)
Cliff Lee - if he can keep that postseason roll...
Thats a 1-2 punch of extraordinary power.



Dec 14 2009 5:11PM
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Governator
Posts: 116 - Karma: 18
I am going to be pissed if the Phils throw Michael Taylor into the deal...my favorite prospect in a while, and he'll be great to have around to replace Werth after Werth leaves in free agency next year
Dec 14 2009 5:12PM
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anxju
Posts: 9371 - Karma: 61
beckett and lester are unstoppable in the playoffs. especially beckett
Dec 14 2009 5:15PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
People said Papelbon was impossible to hit in the playoff too. Then he had a one inning meltdown that cost us the season (I may not like the Pats and don't pay attention to NBA but I love the Soxs.)
Dec 14 2009 5:22PM
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i.am.a.skier.
Posts: 1158 - Karma: 14
dude im sorry but, if you ask me the sox have an incredible starting rotation, and no im not being ignorant one bit.  Of course all 6 arent gonna pitch liike cy young candidates.  But I do believe dice-k will come back in 08 form (ERA under 3.00/ 18-3 record) Beckett is considered by a lot to be one of the best pitchers in the MLB, Lester we all know what he can do, and wake was INCREDIBLE the first half of the season, he was lthe first to reach 10 wins i belive, and now were adding lackey, sweettt
Dec 14 2009 5:22PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
Its looking like the Jays have been completely raped by this trade.

It seems like theyre getting Morrow, Brown, Aumont and maybe thats it??? If they get Happ, Brown, Aumont and some other prospects from the Mariners it wouldnt be bad though.



Good call by the Phils. You now have the best pitcher in baseball on your team.



Im gnna miss Roy.
Dec 14 2009 5:27PM
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Governator
Posts: 116 - Karma: 18
The Phils shouldn't have to give up anything past Lee and a marginal prospect or Happ to get this done. I don't see how they can give up Brown or Taylor.
Dec 14 2009 5:44PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
i dont really get it from the Phil's perspective seeing as theyre only getting a slight improvement... although Halladay would be even better in the NL, Lee is still pretty legit.

Could be a very good trade for the Mariners though.

Still have to see what prospects the Jays get before i can make any final call. I've heard all sorts of names but i dont think this thing will be finalized until tomorrow.
Dec 14 2009 5:54PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
This trade is looking done:

To Toronto
Kyle Drabek (From Phils)
Michael Taylor (From Phils)
Travis d'Arnaud (From Phils)

To Philadelphia
Roy Halladay (From Jays)
$6 million (From Jays)
Phillippe Aumont (from Ms)
Tyson Gillies (From Ms)
Juan Ramirez (From Ms)

To Seattle
Cliff Lee (From Phils)



Word on the street is that the Jays are goign to trade Michael Taylor for Brett Wallace of the Oakland As.
Dec 15 2009 1:35PM
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beermuscles
Posts: 1821 - Karma: 100
Pittsburgh Pirates .. rebuilding since 1992.
Dec 15 2009 1:39PM
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RunDMc
Posts: 1298 - Karma: 60
why the fuck did the Jays have to give up the best pitcher in the league and $6 million for 3 guys I've never heard of??
Dec 15 2009 2:29PM
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THATS_STREET
Posts: 2250 - Karma: 33
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Dec 15 2009 2:34PM
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anxju
Posts: 9371 - Karma: 61
do you understand how running a franchise works at all?
Dec 15 2009 2:38PM
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scratchproteen
Posts: 5173 - Karma: 286
best pitcher in baseball - yes

though the cost to keep him on the jays is insane, for a team that has alot of holes to fill. They trade him for prospects in hopes of rebuilding and saving money. Plus you trade him before he hits the free agent market because if you don't then you lose him and get absolutely nothing.

Just wait till the NFL Players Association decides to go with a pay method like MLB it will be chaos. For those who don't know.

In MLB each team keeps their revenue, so bigger markets (ie new york, boston, la can afford way more and spend more on players)

in the NFL all the teams revenue is divided equally among the teams. At the end of this season is the end of the contract year and there are talks that the NFL PA wants to switch to a method like the MLB.
Dec 15 2009 2:51PM
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THATS_STREET
Posts: 2250 - Karma: 33
there is revenue sharing in the MLB in the form of the luxury tax.
Dec 15 2009 2:55PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
The Jays traded Halladay because he wouldnt have resigned with them after the 2010 season because he wants to play for a perennial contender.

Basically, the Jays arent winning next year, so they traded 1 year of Halladay to the Phillies for Drabek (Phillies best pitching prospect), Taylor (Phillies 2nd best hitting prospect), and D'Arnaud (Phillies best catching prospect)...

Now it looks like theyre trading Taylor for Wallace, which i guess is a wash because they both project to be All-Star caliber players in the majors soon.




This trade was a win-win-win IMO.

Phillies get the best pitcher in baseball for 4 years.
Ms get one of the best pitchers in baseball and the best 1-2 punch in their starting rotation in the league with Felix Hernandez and Lee.
Jays get 3 top notch prospects back...
Dec 15 2009 3:05PM
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Brenone
Posts: 4944 - Karma: 296

correct but the Yankees are really the only team who pay it repeatedly. rightfully so dont get me wrong.

since 2003 when it was instituted the Yankess have paid $148,000,000 in luxury tax. the Red Sox are second on the list at 13 mil and then the Tigers and Angels paid about a million each.

but it works both ways. the teams that generate minimal amounts of income and barely any profit receive most if not all of the luxury tax. so when a team like the marlins has a 20 million dollar payroll and is hardly breaking even they have their payroll basically subsidized by the yankees and the owners dont have to put any equity in. its a completely flawed system. im not sure if the NFL has it right either but so far it seems to be working.

Dec 15 2009 3:22PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
JP was fired a while ago dude. This was a very good trade for the Jays.
Dec 15 2009 3:32PM
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QC_mat
Posts: 206 - Karma: 9
Damn the Jays are so dumb... They're the biggest losers in that trade... They are gonna end up like the Expos... And I hate the Phillies so I hate that trade
Dec 15 2009 3:44PM
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AMD_5
Posts: 745 - Karma: 15
I disagree, I think the Jays should be getting a bit more for the best pitcher in baseball right now.

The prospects look really good, but I think they should throw in one other young player that they have at the major league level right now, even if its just a backup player. Personally, I don't think that the Jays have that great of a farm system and these prospects might not develop to their full potential. Look at Russ Adams, for example. Played at the major level for a year and has been in Triple A for like the last 3 years.

Let's hope that these dudes become All-Star caliber players. I wanna see the Jays back in playoff contention, and even though we may have to put up with the  next 2 or 3 seasons being horrible, I have faith in Anthopoulos
Dec 15 2009 4:01PM
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THATS_STREET
Posts: 2250 - Karma: 33
and there are also teams like the royals that recieve money from teams like the yankees and red sox but then dont put the money back into their teams.

i mean the yankees spend money and win atleast. im a mets fan. the mets spend a ton of money and they suck pretty much. same with teams like the nationals and cubs.

it works both ways kinda.


Dec 15 2009 4:08PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
You have to realize that the Jays had to trade Doc this offseason and everyone knew it. They got 3 out of the top 5 prospects from the Phillies system... thats pretty damn impressive considering they were really only trading away 1 year's worth of Doc.

Also, when they were talking to Philly at the trade deadline last season, they wouldnt even consider giving up Drabek or Taylor... so this is actually a big improvement... they couldnt have got anything near this much from any other team.
The Yankees = Montero + Hughes/Joba was their only other option, and thats really not that great. Montero is good but Joba is overrated and Hughes looks like a bullpen guy right now.



I dont see how anyone can claim this is a bad trade for the Jays. They could not have re-signed Doc, they had to trade him now or risk losing him in free agency next season and getting nothing back in return.

Dec 15 2009 4:15PM
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Brenone
Posts: 4944 - Karma: 296
thats pretty much what i was getting at
Dec 15 2009 4:24PM
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AMD_5
Posts: 745 - Karma: 15
i never said it was a bad trade. i just think that we could have gotten more, even if we did get the top 3 prospects in Philly's system
Dec 15 2009 4:26PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
if they didnt trade him before spring trading, they couldnt have traded him. Roy made it clear that if he hasnt been traded by spring training, he didnt want to be traded at all.... and he can do that because he had a full no trade clause.
if they didnt trade him this offseason they would have lost him to free agency, which would have been a disaster.

Dec 15 2009 4:37PM
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