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The Great Rift

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wh@t
Posts: 6204 - Karma: 51
hello friends. i have debated creating this thread for many days and almost axed the idea, however, after seeing numerous threads like the "worst style" thread in which some unspeakable posts were made by some younger members i believe the issue has come to a head and it is now time for me to address it. i dont want any hate. just hear me out, because i want to get this off my chest.

there is a rift in the skiing community. its is not between park rats and powder hounds or no poles and poles or even tight pants and baggy pants (not even gonna mention how stupid those debates are, thats a different thread) but rather, between the newcomers and the lifelong skiers.

i personally, have been skiing my entire life. im blessed to have been given that opportunity and i will ski till the day i can no longer make it up a chairlift. (before i continue i would like to make it clear that i am NOT against new skiers. i love new skiers and to steal a bit from Gary Fischer, anyone who skis is a friend of mine.) but i do sense that there is a new breed of skier. a skier that never grew up skiing with their parents. that never went to train gates every weekend and wednesday. that never learned how to properly execute a pole plant and ski bumps, trees, steeps, ice or even POWDER! that came into skiing at the ripe age of about meh, 12? or was once a "one weekend a year" skier turned weekend warrior that eventually picked up twins and eventually found NS.

although i appreciate the latter more, because they have known the joy of skiing without the mass of colorful large marshmallow fashion and without the news that Jesus himself now shreds among us, the former is the problem.

these young guns who have been skiing for around 3 years never knew skiing as a lifetime sport. skiing was just the new hot shit on the X-Games that was cooler than snowboarding. it was like the next skateboarding to them. they do not know anything besides tall tees and thug lifestylez. this is skiing to them. its merely a fashion show with no lasting significance other than the fact that theres is a fun factor in learning pretzels on a box. there is no deeper meaning. there is no understanding of the essence of the sport/lifestyle/activity that we all represent.

now, i'll try and be the devils advocate here, maybe this is the new skiing. maybe i shouldnt voice my opposing opinion on the current "progression" of our sport. but is it? anyone thats been skiing long enough knows that they die a little bit inside when they see new skiers working on "attaining" the status of stylish. when did this happen? when did style have criteria other than the expectation that it represent the individuals own take on skiing as an art?

but i digress... (always wanted to use that line) i have made my point. please think before you post in this. thats all.
Dec 7 2009 7:33AM
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Afeld
Posts: 3516 - Karma: 85
quality post.

I agree with this. But if this is really true in 5, 10, 15 years they will leave skiing and move on to new things, and it will be only us on the mountains
Dec 7 2009 9:55AM
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s.g.
Posts: 355 - Karma: 11
I agree with everything you said and mostly about this G thing that has gone to far.not hating or anything,tom wallisch is one of my favorite skiers,but it is really sad that now youre cool if you point a gun in camera in tee that comes to your knees.Its kinda wierd,because if you show up dressed like that in a ghetto,your suit would probaby be burned.
Dec 7 2009 10:10AM
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*simba*
Posts: 9125 - Karma: 512
I agree entirely with this thread... to a point I never skateboarded or did any real sports like that. I played hockey thats it. When I was 11 my snowboarder friend wanted me to come learn how to snowboard, and I just really didn't like snowboarding, it was way too big and everyone did it. I tried skiing. I took a series of lessons and learned. It was the best thing I ever did in my life. At our mountain to get to the bottom of our mountain you have to go thorough the beginner terrain park. It was my second year skiing and I was 12 and I was getting to the lift so I went through the bottom of the terrain park. I usually avoided everything, jump, rail, and then I saw one of the best freestyle skiers at my mountain, when I saw him make his run in that terrain park, my mind was blown (I never watched x games before that). I wanted to be a freestyle skier from then on. I knew I'd have to get way better before that, so I taught myself everything, how to ski bumps, double blacks, everything except pow and tree because i live in PA. My third year I picked up my first twins, some Nordica's I think, and started my way through the park. I was then friends with some of the freestyle skiers there and they started teaching me stuff. So I am now 16 and am okay at freestyle skiing and I love it, my life has no meaning in the summer haha, and I will probably be doing it the rest of my life.

SOOOOO your thread is correct but there are the people that pick up the sport later in their life and love it for the sport it is.
Dec 7 2009 10:13AM
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Afeld
Posts: 3516 - Karma: 85
^I think it is more of a mentality thing than an actually age thing
Dec 7 2009 10:15AM
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*simba*
Posts: 9125 - Karma: 512
Granted I do have a G suit though, I didn't get it because it was massive, I got it because how it looked and it was time to get out of my super tight K2 jacket and ripzone pants that went above my ankles.
Dec 7 2009 10:16AM
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philcote4
Posts: 225 - Karma: 10
legit thread.
Dec 7 2009 10:21AM
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Jibberino
Posts: 2089 - Karma: 1,346
Good post.

I think this is a stage that all "extreme" sports must go through. Like you said, it happened with skateboarding, snowboarding etc. The ones that are not in it with their heart will eventually drop out of the scene, and the ones that truly love it will get wiser and get to know the sport better, and therefore (hopefully) become more engaged in a positive way.

I didn't start skiing before i was 22, and i was a bit of knob to begin with, as far as i remember. Now im 8 years deep, alot wiser, and skiing is pretty much my life. Imo we should welcome anyone into freestyle skiing, even the knobs, because eventually they'll disappear or learn what it's all about!
Dec 7 2009 10:27AM
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Dntel.
Posts: 1026 - Karma: 21
.
Dec 7 2009 11:44AM
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VT_FLO
Posts: 3806 - Karma: 147
"Hip Hop has never been the same since '88
Since it became a lucrative profession there's a misconception
that a movement in any direction is progression
Even though of the potency of it lessens
big money industries writing checks to suppress the question
And nobody gives a fuck no more... "

Canibus (out of poet laureate 2)


it happens to anything that becomes lucrative.
Dec 7 2009 11:52AM
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olliesmith
Posts: 42 - Karma: 11
Thats the best post ive seen, ive skied since i was 12 but living in England means i only get to ski once a year for a couple of weeks. I agree that akiing should be a progressive thing and that people should not just starft in the park, though i have been skiing for 6 years now and have skied for about 14 weeks i have only just really got into the park because i have been told by my family that i had to learn to ski everything else first, which i totallly agree with which is why i think people who dont learn to ski everything before they go to the park are stupid because there is a lot more to skiing than just lapping the park all day every day!
Dec 7 2009 12:02PM
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T-Holt
Posts: 5020 - Karma: 639
Quality post. I was raised on skiing. My mom skied with me when she was pregnant. Even before I could walk I was in a little backpack on my dad's back while he skied. I remember the winters when I still raced and would skip school on Friday to make the 7 hour trek from NYC to Vermont so I could ski some patches of ice. Skiing has always been my life and I'll ski til I can't ski any more.

Ski because you love it.
Dec 7 2009 12:12PM
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Rime.
Posts: 632 - Karma: 615
touche`

100% truth, where is the soul these days?
Dec 7 2009 2:37PM
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Drail
Posts: 14012 - Karma: 10,010
the soul? kootenay's bro!


but on a serious note. as for the newcomers to the sport and all that. no matter the reason for them joining our wonderful sport, they are making the sport bigger, putting more money into it, blah blah blah.


you know... once up on the hill skiing, i don't really notice a real difference between the "lifers" and the "newbs" who are in it because it's cool... they're all having fun, have probably forgotten that they're skiing because it's cool, and, um.... blah, blah blah?


Dec 7 2009 3:36PM
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skinakedfast
Posts: 1294 - Karma: 434
I
Dec 7 2009 4:13PM
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skinakedfast
Posts: 1294 - Karma: 434

Legit thread man and I agree 100% mind you i do wear my clothes rather tall but i have been skiing for as long as i have been able to walk and still love it more and more every each year. And i see kids that only ski park, from their first run on skis ever to their last. I love park but thats just not the only aspect of skiing i like the steeps and little trees i get to ski. overall i appreciate the mountain, snow and skiing more and more everyday

Dec 7 2009 4:16PM
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flexpattern
Posts: 1090 - Karma: 45
true this. whatever the low post count/low karma/noob status says by my username I have been skiing for 18 years of my 19 year old (nearly 20) life and loved every second of it.... i skied with my parents, taught by my dad, did my far share of blasting gates on dry slope on many weekends ( i live in sunny england!).... however i would personally say that this whole new image of skiing has spurred me along to take skiing far more seriously and progress at a rate that i probably otherwise won't have had the commitment to do

for example about 10 years ago all i really wanted to do was snowboard, just because that was the cool thing to do..... now i am pleased that i stuck with skiing because now we can slide rails, ride the pipe and blast deep pow, all made possible by the new imput in newschool style skiing.

A few years ago i got bored by my local dryslope, because it seemed that the only people who were sliding rails were snowboarders... then twin tips came along and then skiing regain the same status of cool that it once had, so now i go to the dryslope every wednesday super stoked.


I think that as humans we always want to impress, and if the sport we do is considered "cool", that gives us a little "buzz" when we tell people that we ski..... just buoys you up and makes you feel a little good about yourself, so I would say I like the newschool style and all the hype that goes with it!
Dec 7 2009 4:20PM
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hellomynameisjef
Posts: 5794 - Karma: 167
ive been skiing since i was 8. park skiing for 2 years. watching the old Road Trip Challenge videos in physics class was what got me hooked on the park aspect.

 i do agree with you to some extent, but i dont think the rift is that noticeable on the mountain, rather, it is represented in threads like "FaceBook Gaper" and "worst style" as long as it doesnt make its way to the hill, im fine with it.
Dec 7 2009 4:24PM
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Delaney
Posts: 621 - Karma: 206
road trip challenge was sick, never found out what happenes to it
Dec 7 2009 4:26PM
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hellomynameisjef
Posts: 5794 - Karma: 167
2 years later, im still waiting for it, DAMN YOU FREESKIER DAMN YOU
Dec 7 2009 4:28PM
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ski@jaypeak2
Posts: 2802 - Karma: 429
haha WHO WON?!!!?!?!?
Dec 7 2009 4:46PM
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Baskin.
Posts: 1387 - Karma: 13
for me i really didnt enjoy skiing my first time when i was eight.....but no im 13 ,and i love skiing but dont have to act gangsta to get respect...i like the threads point but its abit of a over generalization
Dec 7 2009 4:53PM
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mak
Posts: 700 - Karma: 167
I'm happy that you decided to post this. Even if it opens the eyes of just one skier to the true beauty of skiing.
I've been skiing for about 5 years now, and each year I appreciate more and more how awesome it is. It doesn't matter what kind of day it is, I'm usually having fun. I'm not too worried about afterbanging or pretzels just because the pros are doing it. And although I worry about my style from time to time, when I'm out there skiing, say a tree run (thats as good as it gets in Ontario skiing), nobody's watching and I'm doing because of the pure joy that it brings me. I do it because I love, not because anyone else does.
Dec 7 2009 5:36PM
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jeR.
Posts: 1325 - Karma: 58
ive been skiing all my life and its my favourite thing in the world. i raced competitively for 5-6 years i quit a few years ago because i realized i was lacking a major component to my skiing which was park skiing. park skiing gives you a style sense about your skiing which translates really well into other aspects such as bc. id rather watch a park skier throw creative tricks and slash their turns in the bc than an ex-racer carve pow like its the ice between gates and air with no steeze. so i do in fact try to make my tricks and pow turns more stylish, and i dont die inside and im a lifelong skier.
Dec 7 2009 6:20PM
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Brian_Peppers
Posts: 534 - Karma: 54
I like how your signature is ban all noobs
Dec 7 2009 6:26PM
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Sklar
Posts: 8864 - Karma: 31,612
good stuff, i can dig it
my threads
Dec 7 2009 6:31PM
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spliff.Life
Posts: 7847 - Karma: 1,549
serge, you make a great statement, you personally know i understand what you speak of, for we have discussed this. The first problem i see is the second style of skier you just described seems to be the majority posting and agreeing with your original post. You have to live it to understand it, and i think thats what they dont understand. Skiing isnt having your mom buy you a bunch of new shit so you can look cool in front of all your high school friends in the park. Its about mobbing powder with a best friend and experiencing something you know only the two of you will ever lay eyes upon. Not stomping a trick in front of all of your peers, but launching off a pillow doing a perfect shifty and riding away without a person in sight. 
Dec 7 2009 6:33PM
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C-DAWGSTYLEZ
Posts: 832 - Karma: 171
Ya i feel this thread, coming from a private ski club in ontario, going from racing to lapping the terrain park and wearing baggy clothes was like coming out of the closet. It sucks that there are so many lame asses in our sport now adays that lap the park in powder, wear tall tee's to strictly ski functions and get too hammered on ski trips to get out past 1 on most days. I just got back from 4 days sleeping in my car in the whistler parking lot and everyday it dropped 5 degrees celcius and everday there were less tall tees and straight airs (wearing all 2010 THall oakley, come on) but i still went out shredded because its the love of the sport.

I think warren miller put it best when he brought up the feeling of complete freedom, thats what its like for the people that get addicted to this sport that neglect friends, miss countless parties and blank out in class staring out the window thinking of a better place. Were the people that can't get a real job because we know that the thought of having to work on a powder day is far too much to bear.
Dec 7 2009 7:31PM
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gnarmada
Posts: 235 - Karma: 17
very good post
Dec 7 2009 7:40PM
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SKIU4EA
Posts: 2387 - Karma: 2,072

Picture someone that has lived in one town or state their whole life compared to someone who has traveled all over the globe and has taken in all cultures across the spectrum.  This is kind of how I see the skiing venue. 

there are those that have had a taste of all the genres of skiing like the OP said and then there are those that jumped head first into FS.  I think these 2 categories have 2 totally different passions in relevance to skiing as an art and sport.  I'm curious how old the op is.

Dec 7 2009 8:15PM
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.brian
Posts: 1710 - Karma: 233
I have been skiing since I was 2 and almost feel bad for the kids that spend all day in the park and can only ski park. Kids that started skiing because it was the new cool thing. I love to ski park, but park becomes very boring if its all you do.

great post though. +k
Dec 7 2009 8:31PM
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hellomynameisjef
Posts: 5794 - Karma: 167
i wanted volkl to win.


AND I STILL DO GODDAMMIT
Dec 7 2009 8:36PM
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belden...
Posts: 2914 - Karma: 1,274
I agree 100 % theres nothing more depressing to me then seeing people hiking the park wen it snowed 2 feet the night before and its still dumping out. I have even asked some of these "park rats" why they are ripping around in the pow and they said (i quote) Its not fun my tips dive and i fall way to much. My heart literally sunk.

LEARN TO ACTUALLY SKI BEFORE THE PARK 
Dec 7 2009 8:38PM
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Pirruccio
Posts: 1301 - Karma: 70
I grew up in the green mountains and have my first memories skiing. I have skied with my dad my whole life and in the last year I started skiing park with out him because I want to ski more in there then he does.  Its tough sharing all your experiences in a place and having that all change. He hates it but doesn't appreciate the independence of the sport. People just see things differently
Dec 7 2009 8:51PM
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PattyFow
Posts: 540 - Karma: 51
word. i completely agree with this.
i started skiing when i was two, my mom and dad took me up to smuggs and just let me give er. no leashes, no tips tied together. just taught me how to ski the way that skiing should be enjoyed, individually. skiing is not about outward appearances, or the tricks you can do, but rather the joy that it brings. when we used to live in vermont my family and i would ski everyday that my parents were not working, if it was -13 we would go. those were some of the best days of my skiing life, i didnt care about anyone else, just having as much fun as i could. that is what is missing from so many people out there these days, they are so concerned about the tricks they are doing, or how they look, and how others view them that they lose the fun of skiing. its similar to the way that people refer to skiing as "training", and seem to be more preoccupied with getting sponsored than having fun. skiing should be something you do for yourself, not for anyone or anything else.
Dec 7 2009 9:16PM
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dangerdad
Posts: 2228 - Karma: 317
Definitely a quality, well thought out, well articulated view point, but I do have two comments to make.

1. Every single skier has their own individual story. For example, neither of my parents ski. They put me in lessons when I was you for 6 days a year to expose me to the sport. I LOVED it. The issue growing up for me was always the lack of commitment my parent would put into helping me ski, because THEY DIDN'T SKI. Thus rides were impossible, ski trips were out of the question, and buying ski equipment was basically  in my hands. So, I skied on my own and worked for my shit, couldn;t go as much as others, but could really ski a ton until 4 years ago. I consider my self a lover of the sport, not someone who is image obsessed.

2. My definition of soul skiers, are those who withstand freesking's new wave of popularity and continue to love it when it inevitably becomes uncool ones again. Those who are more concerned with hiing to get face shots at the crack of dawn than making an edit. Those are the ones who are true devotees and will last with skiing.
Dec 7 2009 9:23PM
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Delaney
Posts: 621 - Karma: 206
they said there was going to be 9 vidoes but it ended up only like 3
Dec 7 2009 10:13PM
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dangerdad
Posts: 2228 - Karma: 317
your sphincter says what?
Dec 7 2009 10:22PM
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p-fo
Posts: 9372 - Karma: 6,155
more pow for us! im in my 8th year skiing have been freeskiing into my 3rd now. not thug at all till this year. the thing that annoys me is that the people who come in late seem to be able to excel really fast. ive been skiing for nearly 3x as long as a kid whos hucking 10s (and one 12). maybe theres a burnout factor at play here
Dec 7 2009 10:45PM
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Ducky.
Posts: 5811 - Karma: 1,420
this
Dec 7 2009 10:47PM
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dwhite
Posts: 1499 - Karma: 32
I will admit that compared to many seasoned skiers on this site, I am a newcomer. However, this is something that is beyond my control. Just because my parents have never skied, and i didn't learn to ski before i could walk, i shouldn't have the right to be a true member of the sport? Skiing is something that i picked up with my friends when I was 13. Through my progression as a skier, I have had a fast learning curve and feel that i started as a gaper and now I am a confident skier all over the mountain. I can say that I love skiing as much as anyone on this site.

Also, food for thought...Tom Wallisch didn't start skiing when he was 12 or something also?
Dec 7 2009 10:56PM
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philcote4
Posts: 225 - Karma: 10
nice. well said
Dec 8 2009 12:08AM
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.peter
Posts: 1222 - Karma: 63
Ok lets be real here... I won't pretend to know how old you are, or how long or where you've been skiing, and I agree that it is somewhat of a shame that lots of kids don't really know how to ski (although I definitely think park and pipe require a kind of ability equal to or superior to making turns through trees.) but who really cares. they're having fun with their friends the same way you were when you were their age, the only difference is they can ski backwards. Yes, there is a little bit of a respect problem with some of the younger kids, but usually the ones who have attitudes about everything are the ones who rip harder than people twice their age. Skiing has always been "a fashion show, and always will be." just look back to the 80's, 70's, 60's etc... it's always been about what you wear, and how good you look when you ski. it was only the 90's when skiing was not so much into fashion and that was because it was on the verge of being destroyed by younger snowboarders. Skiing has never been considered an art, it has until recently only been seen as a sport, and thanks to new styles and places like NS to show those styles, skiing has regained much of it's popularity with kids, and is arguably more popular today than ever before. It can be as much a sport or an art as you like (just look at Paco Garcia or Max Hill compared to Jon Olsson.) It's what you make of it, and it's NEVER been that way, that open before. So stop being concerned about what happens when 15 year olds discover the power of the anonymity of the internet, and go ski and have fun.

That's ALL you need.
Dec 8 2009 12:33AM
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.peter
Posts: 1222 - Karma: 63
Oh, and for anyone who doesn't believe skiing was a fashion show/ style war pre 2008 watch the OLD Warren Miller movies (the pre-snowboarding ones), or Hot Dogger, or Ski Patrol, or Ski School
Dec 8 2009 12:34AM
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cbalkman
Posts: 274 - Karma: 114
Yeah good thread. Fashion has always been around in skiing, and I've slowly moved towards the current clothing styles. It's hard not to.

I've skied since I was 2, I've instructed, I can ski any natural terrain on the mountain. Put me in a halfpipe and I can't even get out above the deck. I suck at rails, and I'm no good at park jumps. I have an immense amount of respect for the technical skill of park skiing.

As long as you genuinely love skiing, there is nothing more to discuss. If the love of being on the hill, shredding with friends, enjoying nature, etc. are more important to you than just style alone, it's all good.
Dec 8 2009 12:44AM
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Kayess
Posts: 357 - Karma: 11
i see what your saying. i learned to cross country ski when i was 4 and downhill when i was eight. i am now 16 and have spent less than half a year in the park and could not love it more. i think that skiers need to learn to ski before they hit up the park. but i don't think time is a good measurement (at least in years), some people progress fast others not so much. i just hate the people who cant even go down blacks who journey into the park because it is the "cool" thing to do.
Dec 8 2009 1:00AM
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Machete23
Posts: 444 - Karma: 9

I love that we are getting a lot of new kids skiing, it's great to watch and makes me really happy.

But I do worry sometimes that they won't appreciate the history and tradition and culture that skiing has been built on.

The history and tradition of skiing was something, to me, that set it apart from snowboarding. It's not just some new trendy thing. It's a culture that connects us with other skiers around the world, and back through time.

I love skiing. I love all aspects of it. As much as I love skiing park, I wish I had been in a race program when I was younger too, (my family didn't ski, so I didn't get into it until I was a little older). I love the feeling of carving trenches down groomers, and learning a new trick on rails. I love skiing bumps, and trees, and of course powder. I live for powder days.

I want all the kids that are attracted to the sport by the newschool movement to experience everything else that skiing has to offer as well. Every different thing I've done with skis on has made me better at every other aspect of skiing. I think that's important.

There will always be trends in skiing, but skiing will never be a trend, it's a way of life.

Dec 8 2009 1:39AM
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wh@t
Posts: 6204 - Karma: 51
yeah, and i realize this is the problem with my argument. like i said, i love anyone who chooses to ski and loves skiing as my brother and friend. BUT i do not respect the person who is skiing just because its the new cool thing to do, which i see alot of these days.

skiing park does require quite a lot of skill. im not saying that kids who ski park only are bad skiers, they are far from it, they are just not well rounded skiers and i see that as a problem. i do not want skiing to fall away from its roots. it is a community activity. ski towns are a great example of that community.

skiing films have always been a fashion show i would agree with you. but not skiing itself. cant mix the two together.

"it's always been about what you wear, and how good you look when you ski."

i disagree with this wholeheartedly and completely and i cite gapers and weekend warriors as my example. they are certainly not up to trend in terms of outerwear or skiing fashion in general. they are skiing because its fun.
Dec 8 2009 4:44AM
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wh@t
Posts: 6204 - Karma: 51
im old enough to not be a 12 year old retard. and funny you should mention that because i have lived all over the world. currently reside in Singapore.
Dec 8 2009 4:48AM
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wh@t
Posts: 6204 - Karma: 51
did you catch my Wallisch reference? haha

but yeah, you are not one of the ones i am concerned with rest assured. you are just as much a skier as i am.
Dec 8 2009 4:50AM
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SKIU4EA
Posts: 2387 - Karma: 2,072

I was taking your side of the argument and agreeing with you.  Was just trying to point out, how like you said, a lot of people didn't grow up with skiing being a lifetime sport and didn't  explore the whole experience of skiing.

Didn't mean to imply you were ignorant or yourng at all.  If anything, I see the opposite, and share almost the same scenario as you.

sorry if my post was hard to interpret in the beginning

Dec 8 2009 7:32AM
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