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No Heavan No Hell

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OhioRiderSPK5
Posts: 968 - Karma: 24

Ok so i just got  back from this party an im kinda drunk so im my grammar is bad im sorry an im not tryin to sound cool by sayin im drunk a shit but anyway, the whole time at this party i kept thinkin bout wow i wonder if im gonna go to hell for drinkin an smokin. Afer that i startd to think about what if there really was no heavan or hell. You would livee yor life die an then thats it. forever an ever. just thinkin boutt it scares the shit out of me. What are youur guys thoughts on this

Nov 21 2009 12:15AM
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TZP
Posts: 874 - Karma: 61
philosophy is not about whats right and whats wrong, its about ideas
Nov 22 2009 4:16PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
It is about what ideas are right and wrong.

You do not understand how philosophy works. You seem to think that being some stoner idiot coming up with stupid ideas about reality and whatnot makes you a philosopher. All i attempted to do in this thread was prove that your idea was not a valid philosophical argument.

A philosophical argument should usually look like this:


premise 1

premise 2 follows from premise 1

therefore

conclusion


example:

All fish live in the water
John is a fish
John lives in the water.

Above is a valid argument

Below is a valid, but not a sound argument:

All fish live in the water
John is a fish
John has a soul

It is not sound argument because the conclusion does not follow from the premises.


Almost all philosophy that occurred prior to around 100 years ago is full of invalid arguments such as the examples above. We have just spent the last month or 2 in Philosophy going through a bunch of very famous arguments and proving them all wrong.
Nov 22 2009 4:25PM
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TZP
Posts: 874 - Karma: 61
I am not a stoner kid, as I do not smoke. I'm actually studying a whole lot of philosophy. What I'm saying is that if we follow the way you think, every single assumption made about reality, existence, soul, etc. is dumb, because none of it can be proven.
Nov 22 2009 4:32PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
I think there are plenty of people who are making progress in thought about the state of reality and whatnot, and whilst their field is full of speculation and whatnot, some theories are backed by evidence in one way or another.
In this thread, you have suggested that me saying "Santa could exist because you cant prove he does or doesnt" is good philosophy.
Nov 22 2009 4:34PM
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TZP
Posts: 874 - Karma: 61
you seem to think you have a vast knowledge of how philosophy works because you had a few philosophy classes. The example you just gave is something you learn in your first philosophy class. However, you use it so scientifically that following your chain of thought, you're discrediting all that is not within the realm of what can be proven. Everything about the soul and God can't be proven. Everything about reality can't be 100% proven. It doesn't mean that those things are necessarily illogical. Your main issue is that you seem to think that logical and provable are intertwined
Nov 22 2009 4:40PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
no. however, i dont believe in anything that lies outside of the realms of reality as we know it for the very reasons i mentioned. I dont believe in anything supernatural because i have no reason to do so.
Nov 22 2009 5:11PM
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ElbridgeGerry
Posts: 5902 - Karma: -27
How I wish my friend Darwin was still alive and not food for the worms. He would dismantle your argument as to the existence of a higher being. Interesting fact, the human body loses exactly 12 oz. at the time of death. Some say this is the weight of the soul leaving the body, others say it is the body pooping or peeing.
Nov 22 2009 7:00PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
I have neither the time nor the patience to correct the multitude of erroneous statements and flawed logic in this thread, but seriously, almost every post is fraught with them.

Darwin was an agnostic, he never spoke about the existence of God or validity of religion. He published a book based on ideas he got on this cool ship trip and then wrote about worms for the rest of his life because his ideas weren't picked up on until after his death.

Everyone: Stop talking out of your ass.
Nov 22 2009 7:23PM
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paulgenovese
Posts: 524 - Karma: 362
This thread hurts my brain.
Nov 22 2009 7:23PM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
sigh again.

Philosophy in greek is translated as the love of wisdom. its not ABOUT ideas. Ideas stem from it as philosophers from each century use their knowledge and reasoning skills to deduce concepts. Some of those concepts stick, and some are corrected and reformed. Some concepts are about right and wrong, some are about science.
Nov 22 2009 7:25PM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
Is it true that Darwim recanted his faith at his death bed. I heard it somewhere but dont know if it was a rumor
Nov 22 2009 7:29PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
The Lady Hope story

The "Lady Hope Story", first published in 1915, claimed that Darwin had reverted back to Christianity on his sickbed. The claims were rejected by Darwin’s children and have been dismissed as false by historians.[74]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Darwin's_views_on_religion

Nov 22 2009 7:31PM
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ElbridgeGerry
Posts: 5902 - Karma: -27
Just because I signed the declaration of independence doesn't mean I have to be well informed at all.
Nov 22 2009 7:35PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Sorry I used yours as an example, I just cant quote 90 posts at once.
Nov 22 2009 7:37PM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
he was a naturalist though, not an agnostic.
Nov 22 2009 7:37PM
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ElbridgeGerry
Posts: 5902 - Karma: -27
BYAHHHHHHHHHH!

I DEMAND SATISFACTION!


Sabres at dusk!
Nov 22 2009 7:39PM
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shragler
Posts: 572 - Karma: 32

Click for larger image

Nov 22 2009 7:41PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Self proclaimed agnostic, but I'd say theres little difference for the purposes of this argument.
Nov 22 2009 7:44PM
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shragler
Posts: 572 - Karma: 32
Click for larger image
Nov 22 2009 7:45PM
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ElbridgeGerry
Posts: 5902 - Karma: -27
I deeeeemand satisfaction!
Nov 22 2009 7:46PM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
Charles Robert Darwin FRS (12 February 1809 – 19 April 1882) was an English naturalist who realised that all species of life have evolved over time from ...

For the sake of the argument, Darwin's naturalist views meant that everything is just matter and chemicals, and man is just a complex bio-chemical machine.

BY agnostic, he didnt really care for God, but thats not to say how his naturalist worldview was absurd.
Nov 22 2009 7:46PM
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RudyGarmisch
Posts: 25443 - Karma: 13,844
Naturalist:

A scholar or student of natural history, the science of the natural world; see also natural science. It may also refer to a Wildlife enthusiast or aConservationist.

Naturalist =/= Naturalism (Philosophy)

Summarize for me though, why are are naturalists (philosophy) absurd?
Nov 22 2009 7:52PM
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pmills
Posts: 7162 - Karma: 59
so are you failing a philosophy course or just pretending you've taken one?

validity is determined by if the premises are true the conclusion is true,

soundness is determined by the validity of the form of the argument along with the truth of the premises (and by validity the conclusion)

your john the fish MP is neither valid nor sound.

Nov 22 2009 8:28PM
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Moisty_Goat
Posts: 601 - Karma: 31
You of all people shouldn't be going around calling people stoner idiots, especially when nothing he said had to do with weed. https://www.newschoolers.com/web/forums/readthread/thread_id/500817/.
I'm sorry but it just pissed me off that you said that especially when you posted that thread, i did enjoy reading your posts up until then though
Nov 22 2009 8:32PM
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yellav
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 1,217
believing in christianity is pretty silly. the story of jesus christ is borrowed a thousand times over from different pagan religions. also if you really believe there is a god in the form of a homo sapien thats pretty silly as well. thats all i have to add to this shitfest.
Nov 22 2009 8:35PM
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Moisty_Goat
Posts: 601 - Karma: 31
The more I read that the more it pisses me off. He gave you no indication he smokes and turns out he doesn't. Because you thought his post was stupid you decided that he was a "stoner idiot". Your basically insulting everyone who smokes weed by doing that, fuck you
Nov 22 2009 8:37PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
I think youre looking into this too much dude.

I said "stoner idiot' in reference to the type of philosophy you're doing, which in his case was equivalent to the random shit you say when you're high... i am not suggesting that hes an idiot because he is a stoner.

chill.
Nov 22 2009 9:58PM
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Moisty_Goat
Posts: 601 - Karma: 31
Now that you put it in that context, I apologize for it.
I was overreacting anyways but just something about it really pissed me off because in real life i have met people who say things like that and its one of my biggest pet peeves

Nov 22 2009 11:27PM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
Alright Rowen.

Naturalism: their belief on metaphysics (what is reality) is basically that matter is the only thing that is real. As i mentioned before, man is just a complex bio-chemical machine. Where does that leave epistemology (how do we know what we know)? It leaves knowledge as subjective/relative/ empiricism(senses).

If all we are is chemicals and matter, then who is controlling but a bunch of feelings and chemical?.
If all we are is chemicals and matter, then who controls ethics, who controls the values?
If all we are is chemicals and matter, than how can we be responsible for our thoughts?
If knowledge is subjective, then nothing is wrong according to us. We cant construct moral imperatives is what im saying.

Naturalism is absurd for two reasons (or more): 1) if we dont have feelings and everything is chemicals, then the VERY ACT of you trying to convince me that Naturalism is absurd contradicts all you have stated. 2) If knowledge is relative to you and me, then why should I think what you are saying is true, since truth is relative?

The bottom line: We are reduced to chemicals (pathetic), then how can we be responsible for our thoughts, words, or deeds. It reduces things to skepticism, which can be reduced to nihilism, so go smoke weed and commit suicide cuz there is no point in life.
Nov 23 2009 12:54AM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
hahahahaah where was it borrowed a thousand times? you cant say buddhism, because buddhism is a syncretic religion meaning it stemmed from a bunch of different religions, CHRISTIANITY being one of them.

God is 100 % God and 100% man, how is that silly?
Nov 23 2009 12:57AM
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Travapple.
Posts: 6787 - Karma: 88

ive always thougt of death basicallay a reincarnation. a new start i guess. i sure as hell cant grasp the concept of eternal nothingness. can anyboy?

does that mean im jewish?

Nov 23 2009 1:00AM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
dude fuck off. seriously. you are just stupid and ruin every fucking thread you post in by spewing your absolutely ridiculous notions about God and morals and whatnot.
You fail at logic and youre an ignorant closed-minded douchebag.


p.s. if we need someone to tell us what is right and wrong, why do you think that rape/slavery/child abuse is wrong?
Nov 23 2009 1:25AM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
SO far no one has proven me wrong, so until its proven absurd, im not a close-minded douchebag.

rape/ slavery/ chid abuse is wrong cuz it contradicts all of Gods teachings, natural law, conscience, everything.. that is common sense.
Nov 23 2009 1:32AM
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yellav
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 1,217
sigh. you must be trolling. i can only hope you're not one of the splendid breed of christian who spews his made up fairy tale for all to hear regardless of listeners opinion.

the story of jesus's resurrection, december the 25th, hanging on the cross, among dozens of other similarities have appeared in religions prior to christianity.

the way you just cited buddhism makes it very evident you are just spewing horse piss out of your ass and have zero grasp on any core element of the religion. how exactly did buddhism stem from christianity if gautama siddhartha was born in 500BC? i guess you could argue some sects of mahayana buddhism have taken on prayer ritual and deity worship but beyond that the central goal of the two religions are polar opposites. christians do good in accordance of fear of an imaginary man, buddhists do good to take on an inner quest to realize the truths of all things in existence.

it is silly because if you pause for a second to consider the complexities of life, the universe and everything all organized religion is the result of societies narcissistic nature.
Nov 23 2009 1:36AM
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yellav
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 1,217
you are the definition of close minded. you believe in an organized religion and are set on one single way things have occured to bring about the universe.




Nov 23 2009 1:56AM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
could've sworn the bible pretty much condones slavery and beating slaves, has no real problems with rape, and doesnt even mention child molesting as being wrong....

im not going to get into this though because you're just an idiot, watch the videos the dude above me posted.
Nov 23 2009 3:18PM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
How am I close minded if im just arguing my position? That would mean you are close minded too, and everyone else in this thread.

You are also set on one single way things occurred, and that is how you percieve your world. but your view is in disagreement with mine, therefore we are in an argument.
Nov 23 2009 9:06PM
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DaveM
Posts: 2936 - Karma: 1,558
What happens after death is what YOU believe is going to truly happen, just keep living like this until you die and then figure it out when the day comes
Nov 23 2009 9:11PM
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yellav
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 1,217
no i am not. please watch the videos.
Nov 23 2009 9:15PM
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ElbridgeGerry
Posts: 5902 - Karma: -27
Hah! Like fuck it does! In the old testament it tells you how you should take care of your slaves. I can't remember what the bible calls it, but it's a slave. Indentured servant or something like that?
Nov 23 2009 9:20PM
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FrenchToastMafia
Posts: 2195 - Karma: 452
with jesus packin my bong
Nov 23 2009 10:16PM
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FrenchToastMafia
Posts: 2195 - Karma: 452
just believe and live your life
Nov 23 2009 11:06PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
i like the bit about how you should beat your slaves with an iron rod as long as they can get up after 3 days.
Nov 23 2009 11:15PM
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BravoWhiskey5280
Posts: 4020 - Karma: 520
I use to be very sceptical on religion, but i recently went on a trip to Israel and visited Jerusalem and my whole idealology was completely refrained from what it use to be. After learning about the history of the area I realized that there has to be some sort of god, some sort of driving force which has caused all the fighting in the region since virtually the start of mankind, and is still going on today.
The most sacred sites in the world for THREE DIFFERNET religions are within walking distance from eachothet. I dunno but that raises my eyebrow in contemplating what if there were no god then why would millions of people given up there life for him.
Nov 23 2009 11:58PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
lolwut

surely the fact that the 3 major religions are so close to eachother shows that they were just made up by the different peoples there, and then used to spur on fighting between eachother.

if there was a god, you'd think hed let everyone know he was real, rather than a few dudes in the desert.

Millions people gave up their life for god because they're gullible idiots.
Nov 23 2009 11:59PM
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yellav
Posts: 10056 - Karma: 1,217
because both christianity and islam originate from judaism? and the fertile crescent is supposably where agriculture started giving them a head start to all the bullshit society brings about?
Nov 24 2009 12:02AM
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BravoWhiskey5280
Posts: 4020 - Karma: 520
So i heard this story about an atheist professor who basically shoot down any idea of religion at all in every lecture he gave. At the end of the semister he always said no if you believe in god than stand up. No one stood up, He said good, becuase if god was real he would stop this chalk from breaking, so hed drop the chalk and it shattered on the ground. He proceeded to do this for 20 years until one day a young man actually stood up in fatih. He called him a fool and said like he had before that if god was real hed stop this chalk from breaking. He dropped it and it landed on his foot rolled off and remained in contact, The professor not saying a word ran out of the class room and was never found teaching again.

And just to back this up, why is it that everyone in this thread that has opposing views against religion has it primarly against christianity, and not only that but catholicism. Its as if its only right to bash on christianity because christians are the only people in our society that we can essentially live in reality with, But no, once other religions are brought about(which they never are in this topic) we become polotically correct and have sudden respect for them? Im just ranting but it seems like you guys are almost mad, jealous or inclined to erase the faith of others. Why, are you pissed of that millions of people have a different view on life than you?
Nov 24 2009 2:43AM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
Hate to say it, but everyone in this thread is closed-minded. It seems the concept of faith is too vast of a topic for the typical 15-year-old NSer to understand.
Nov 24 2009 2:59AM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
the concept of faith is closed-minded by definition.
Nov 24 2009 3:21PM
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ElbridgeGerry
Posts: 5902 - Karma: -27
Wanna hear something funny? That story isn't true. Go look it up, it never happened. The chalk would have broken, God IMVHPO does not exist.
Nov 24 2009 5:49PM
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