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Detune vs. Extreme Base Bevel

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PhuzzyWuzzy
Posts: 358 - Karma: 82
Instead of detuning their edges, why don't people just put an extreme base bevel on their skis to get those edges up and out of the way.  I'm talking about a massive bevel of 2 or 3 degrees, this way you could still have a descent edge for carving off jumps and stuff without having to worry about them getting caught on rails. 

Any ideas? 
Nov 20 2009 10:39PM
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Che~
Posts: 2108 - Karma: 296
a bevel of 2 or 3 degrees is far from massive
Nov 20 2009 10:40PM
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PhuzzyWuzzy
Posts: 358 - Karma: 82
Do you know of any base bevel tool that can sharpen a base edge greater than 2 degrees?  I can't find any for some reason ;-)

Considering most all skis have a base bevel between 0.5 degrees and 1 degree.  I would consider a 2 or 3 degree base bevel massive.  Maybe that's just me though...
Nov 20 2009 10:51PM
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Casey
Posts: 7849 - Karma: 24,317
in terms of those little hand held tools I don't think that they make one with a 3 degree bevel, but I think a shop would be able to. My only concern would be that your edges would suck everywhere, and would still grab on rails. I dunno. Would be worth looking into, but I bet its been tried.
Nov 20 2009 11:19PM
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Candy
Posts: 1051 - Karma: 176
This is what I do, but I just call it detuning, and you really can't turn that much better than regular detune, and also when you hit rails for a day it doesn't really matter cause it will all be the same.
Nov 20 2009 11:22PM
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lifesadream
Posts: 161 - Karma: 145
you only need 1 degree but don't get carried away
Nov 20 2009 11:25PM
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R.Fahey
Posts: 8602 - Karma: 539
After one day of sliding rails your edges are pretty dull anyway.  why not just expedite the process and detune them.  For an all mountain ski I can see a base bevel... but for a park specific ski just detune the fuckers and shred.
Nov 20 2009 11:30PM
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PhuzzyWuzzy
Posts: 358 - Karma: 82
I believe some of Ride's park-specific snowboards come from the factory with a 3 degree base bevel.  Yes I know that they are snowboards, but still. 

Thanks for your input guys!
Nov 20 2009 11:42PM
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shredables
Posts: 647 - Karma: 19

yes they do make base edge bevels at 90, 91, 92, 93 degrees. the reason you dont want that is because regardless of the bevel, your sharp edges are still there. yeah you will have more base angle before the edge hits but its still sharp. detune it with a gummy stone to do a quality job, or just hack on it with a file to make it dull if you dont really care about your stuff

Nov 21 2009 12:09AM
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Sklar
Posts: 8864 - Karma: 31,612
i ride my race skis with a 3 degree bevel on the side and 1 on the base, doesn't seem too big to me
Nov 21 2009 1:18AM
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Steeze-On-Toast
Posts: 679 - Karma: 92
i might try this, i didnt really detune my afterbangs at all, but i havent ridden them much so i might bevel them, sounds like a more legit method of not fucking up your skis too badly
Nov 21 2009 9:23AM
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shredables
Posts: 647 - Karma: 19

i wouldn't try it.. because if you dont like it, your stuck with the bevel. you can always cut more bevel onto an edge. but you cant cut it back to less of a bevel, so, your stuck with 93/87 on the base.

its a bad idea that sounds good. dont do it. stick with the gummy

Nov 21 2009 11:58AM
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Mr.Huck
Posts: 6096 - Karma: 14,896
Test it out, but be prepared to be disappointed.  An Extreme Bevel will mean that you have to roll your skis  more to get an edge.  May not seem like a big deal, but it is.  It will feel like skiing with no edges.  An extreme bevel will also mean taking more off the edge so the ski will effectively have less life.  Detuning the edge is easy and less permanent.  Someone mentioned a gummy stone.  My favorite tool for detuning is a drywall sanding sponge.  Costs a few bucks.  Soft so you can keep it in your pocket and it won't puncture a kidney if you fall on it.  Most places sell one that has fine grit on one side and medium on the other.  It's perfect.  Usually you can find them in the paint department.  Just rub it up and down your edge until it skis right. 
Nov 21 2009 12:15PM
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Justo8484
Posts: 3905 - Karma: 205
tried it on a pair of skis i had a few years ago. agreed, it sounds good in theory, but in all reality, it made no difference. they are still grabby on rails, and ski worse all mountain. i disagree with the gummy stone, i don't think it really detunes enough for sliding rails. works great for detuning tips and tails slightly so they're not super hooky though. i just take the roughest file i can find to the edge under foot and call it a day, and i find that since i've started doing that, i get fewer edge cracks and my skis last longer.
Nov 21 2009 12:18PM
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PhuzzyWuzzy
Posts: 358 - Karma: 82
The side edge angle just affects how much "bite" the ski edges have, while the base bevel affects how far you need to tip your skis on edge before the edge does the "biting". 

So if you were to compare a set of skis with a 1 degree base bevel and a 3 degree side bevel to the same pair only with a 3 degree base bevel and a 1 degree side bevel, they would preform very different. 

Hope this makes sense. 
Nov 22 2009 12:37AM
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PhuzzyWuzzy
Posts: 358 - Karma: 82
Good point, I didn't even think of this. 

Detuning does seem better after all. 
Nov 22 2009 12:41AM
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Slinger1x1
Posts: 8853 - Karma: 66
because a 3 degree bevel on the side means the side comes in 3 degrees.
the base bevel would need to be 3 degrees, meaning the base edge goes up 3 degrees
Nov 22 2009 12:45AM
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I_Am_Mod
Posts: 13214 - Karma: 3,753
magnetraction edges are the solution to your problem...
Nov 22 2009 9:29AM
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oskar.lipa
Posts: 116 - Karma: 10
can anyone post a picture of a gummy stone here?
Nov 22 2009 11:05AM
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japanada
Posts: 13784 - Karma: 1,957
A stone in use

Click for larger image
Nov 22 2009 11:22AM
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oskar.lipa
Posts: 116 - Karma: 10
thanks dog
Nov 22 2009 11:31AM
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japanada
Posts: 13784 - Karma: 1,957
Detune is the way to go. Doing a 3+ degree base bevel would be retarded and make your skis ski like shit. Not all of us are park rats.
Nov 22 2009 11:32AM
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PhuzzyWuzzy
Posts: 358 - Karma: 82
I don't understand why anyone would put those in skis.  On a snowboard, those edges are used to add contact points to the center of the board (between the bindings), but on skis, you already have contact points at the center because that is where your boots are located. 

In addition, I don't really think that they would solve my problem because these edges still work best when they are not detuned and have a normal base bevel.  Therefore, they would still get hooked up on rails and stuff, while offering no real benefit to carving. 
Nov 22 2009 3:43PM
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