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The Great Gatsby

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Canuker
Posts: 4730 - Karma: 165

Im in the process of writing a formal essay for my english class on "The Great Gatsby".

I chose the topic on weahter Gatsby was really great or not. I chose to proove that he is not as great as he may seem. Im just having a little bit of trouble on picking my main ideas for the body paragraphs.

Ive been brainstorming and ive, so far, come to the conclusions that Gatsby was:

-Dishonest

-A crook

-Lonely

and an illusionist of sorts.

the only problem im having is that all these points ultimately intertwine with eachother. For example, Gatsby is dishonest because he is a crook. Also him being an illusionist( his fake identity, false apperence of power etc..) can also be linked to dishonesty. Another issue would be if i used the point that he is a crook, the only supporting point( within the paragraph) i could think of would be that he sold grain alcohol during the prohibition, you need two small points within your body paragraph and besides that the book doesnt really say of any ther illegal activites.

So if anyone feels like giving some ideas or brainstorming with me i would appreciate it.

It may seem im looking for you gguys to do my homework but i actually wouldnt mind discussing the idea of his greatness. I dont mind writing essays at all.

Nov 19 2009 5:22PM
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Billek
Posts: 5665 - Karma: 98
I think that it is good that all of those things intertwine each other.  How else would you be able to sum Gatsby up?
Nov 19 2009 5:24PM
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Canuker
Posts: 4730 - Karma: 165

yes it is good in the fact that it would flow. but how would it look if one of my points for his dishonesty would be the fact that he engages in criminal activity, when my next body paragraph is all about his criminal activity.

Also would the fact that he is, dare i say, obsessed with Daisy make him ungrate? after all he obtained his wealth for her, bought a house across the bay from her without her knowing, practically stocked her for 5 years and threw all his partys as a plan to attract her over.

Nov 19 2009 5:29PM
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Billek
Posts: 5665 - Karma: 98
Yes, Daisy was the downfall of the not-so-great Gatsby.

As for the dishonesty/criminal paragraphs, try your best to keep the two separate.  I read the book a while ago, but I am sure that you can find many things he was dishonest about away from his crimes.  On the last sentence of the dishonesty paragraph, touch on the crime, then jump right into it in the next one.
Nov 19 2009 5:32PM
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010
Posts: 1427 - Karma: 14
I would argue that Gatsby was in fact great.  He encompassed everything that is the American dream: the prospect of rising to the top from nothing.  From rags to riches.  And if you believe that the end (winning over Daisy) justifies the means (criminal activity, namely the illegal trade of alcohol) then you would believe that Gatsby is great.  If you are going to make the argument that Gatsby is not great, then you really also have to argue that the American dream is insignificant.  I'm not trying to play a patriot card here (is there even a patriot card?), but the fact of the matter is that Gatsby does personify the American dream.  That is the main motif throughout the book.
Nov 19 2009 5:39PM
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Billek
Posts: 5665 - Karma: 98
I took it as such:

If you build your life and success on something volatile (Daisy), then you are setting yourself up for disaster.  The man was a fool, albeit a dedicated one.

Nov 19 2009 5:44PM
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Canuker
Posts: 4730 - Karma: 165

Yes this is very ture, I have a brainstorming/ ideas web and i have more than enough points to proove gatsby is dishonest.

The problem is in the crime paragraph, what do i touch on? I mean aside from the obvious fact he was a bootlegger, I do not see how i can expand on this much more. Perhaps a different subject for one of the body paragraphs would be a good idea.

Nov 19 2009 5:45PM
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Canuker
Posts: 4730 - Karma: 165

Very true, but that is the buety of this topic it can go either way, with a plethora of things to proove both ideas.

I do see his qualitys of greatness, as you said "from rags to riches". He put his mind to something, and he achieved it. Yet the ways he achieved it were not honest, he engaged in criminal activites and lied his way to the top and for what? a girl that is already married. that is also dishonest, he is trying to get a married women to fall for him. Although late in the book it seems he has suceeded, until Tom reveals the true nature of his wealth, then Daisy begins to see Gatsby in a different light. I did find some truth in the tital of the book though, many magicians are classified as "the great..." and Gatsby was much like one. He changed his identy, lied and stretched truths about his past to put on the illusion of being truely great but in the end he left behind no real legacy. Lastly how can one be great without people to share his greatness wth? yes he did throuch extravagent parties everyweek but how many people actually knew him? At the end of the book no one comes to his funerals except for Nick, Mr Gatsby and the "owl man".

At first i was contemplating prooving both these points( what makes him great and what disqualifies his greatness) In the same essay. Then I figured a more opinonated essay would be for the best.

Nov 19 2009 5:56PM
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Canuker
Posts: 4730 - Karma: 165
sorry for the pathetic spelling by the way, im bad at typing
Nov 19 2009 6:00PM
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paige.
Posts: 1932 - Karma: 924
I had to do this exact essay last year. The trick with it is you need to very clearly define the requirements for being great and then go through whether or not gatsby meets each of these criteria. Because great is a very open word, you can define it however you want it, and support it many different ways.
I'd almost shy away from having a paragraph about him being a crook because there are so few ways to support it. That would be better just covered within the dishonest paragraph.
Nov 19 2009 6:02PM
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Canuker
Posts: 4730 - Karma: 165
do you remember the points you used for yours? and yes i was thinking about shying away too. But this leaves me without a final point.
Nov 19 2009 6:09PM
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paige.
Posts: 1932 - Karma: 924
I focused more on his actions and characteristics- his actions are always very large and flamboyant- his massive parties, his generosity and all of that. He acts like he is great. But then when you actually look at Gatsby as a person you don't see the greatness. This is where you find the dishonesty, his distance from the people he surrounds himself with, his obsession with Daisy and that sort of thing.

.... it was an in class essay that I never got back so that's about all I remember. I hope this helps. Just make sure you state early on whether or not you consider great to be synonymous with very good or there will be some confusion.
Nov 19 2009 6:21PM
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steezesticks
Posts: 48 - Karma: 10
I'm pretty sure if you mention the "Green Light" you will surely get a good grade on the paper...
Nov 19 2009 7:11PM
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doublexl
Posts: 8407 - Karma: 27
in the second season of the wire, one of the characters does a really great analysis of Gatsby. havent read the book though, so thats all the help you get from me.
Nov 19 2009 7:18PM
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PeeDuBzz
Posts: 1010 - Karma: 134
i kno im not helping you much with this but im stuck reading this too for school and it blows i cant concentrate on the book
Nov 19 2009 8:12PM
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Baskin.
Posts: 1387 - Karma: 13
change your main ideas or its going to be difficult
Nov 19 2009 8:16PM
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hotgarbage
Posts: 55 - Karma: 10
say no he was not great because he was in  a piece of american literature that drove you mad with bordeom and put hot suicide thoughts in your head....

 or maybe say was great because he had sick ass parties, and landed hot bangers.
Nov 19 2009 8:16PM
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fountain.
Posts: 1399 - Karma: 80
haha woah me too, but mine is comparing the great gatsby to some song by james taylor. i did not choose the song.
Nov 19 2009 8:16PM
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Funnel
Posts: 7816 - Karma: 1,531
The funny thing is. That's what I titled one of my many essays on TGG. We wroked on the book for a little over two months in school and had a Summer assignment on it. Fuck that book. I hated it.
Nov 19 2009 8:22PM
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dergblerp
Posts: 1303 - Karma: 77
You should touch on the american dream.  That's what the great gatsby is really about.  The illusion of success, wants vs needs, ect.  Think about Wilson, the gas station attendant's role in the book as well, he's a really key character.  A lot of this story is based on Fitzgerald's experience at Princeton, and how much he wanted to belong to the rich cliques at school. 

Here's a dec. sample essay I found on the topic.
http://www.trap17.com/index.php/Great-Gatsby-American-Dream_t58208.html
Nov 19 2009 8:28PM
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Owen.
Posts: 1134 - Karma: 13
We don't study this book in my school but I read it on my own time - so basically my ideas may not be in line with the rest of yours - but if you're arguing that he wasn't so great you can talk about how pathetic he was.... it's like oh sure the guy has great parties, great friends, etc. but he built up his whole life around getting Daisy back and when she turns him down he has a complete identity crisis....

I actually hardly remember the book but I loved Fitzgerald's other books so if this one is as much like the other ones as I think it is then Gatsby would have hit a pretty hard speed bump in defining himself...
Nov 19 2009 9:28PM
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Canuker
Posts: 4730 - Karma: 165

If i could write it on that, i could finish the essay in a good hour haha.

And thanks everyone for the ideas, i know many on here think he was great but im sticking with my opinion that he was not great.

and who ever said the thing about the green light, i lol'd. Its true, aside from the countless amounts of other symbolism this was the one everyone in my class was able to figure out and my teacher ate it up everytime someone related it to somnething.

fucking english teachers, lol.

Nov 22 2009 5:36PM
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gnarshrelpt
Posts: 572 - Karma: 15
It isnt suck a bad thing that the topics run into each other. It can help make your essay flow better.
Nov 22 2009 5:44PM
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Canuker
Posts: 4730 - Karma: 165
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M2AUYYKfxk

is this what you happen to be talking baout

Nov 22 2009 5:47PM
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