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I need a camera comparison NOW

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treebeard
Posts: 3663 - Karma: 1,954
i realize this should be in media & arts, but we all know nsg gets more traffic and i need an answer rather quickly.

i'm getting one of these 2 cameras:



i've been filming for a few years but this will be my first prosumer camera. so whichever one's best and easiest to work with, let me know.
also, don't suggest any others unless you absolutely live by that camera, and it's within the 1500-2200 price range
Nov 17 2009 10:45PM
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.jr
Posts: 5313 - Karma: 356
lol
Nov 17 2009 10:46PM
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[Dawn
Posts: 1718 - Karma: 69
get the first one. if you have a mac, do not get a sony. first one looks more legit tho. the second one would be impossible to follow cam w/ and it'd feel weird to hold because of the off center handle.
Nov 17 2009 10:54PM
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.jr
Posts: 5313 - Karma: 356
yes yes.. now we just need someone to finish this thread and make it complete!
Nov 17 2009 10:56PM
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treebeard
Posts: 3663 - Karma: 1,954
if you're not going to help, can't you just leave?
Nov 17 2009 10:57PM
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treebeard
Posts: 3663 - Karma: 1,954
ok, that's actually very helpful. i was definitely leaning towards the fx7 anyway, so i definitely won't be getting the hd1000.

and as for the hmc40, it looks pretty solid but i prefer to work with tapes, not a harddrive
Nov 17 2009 11:01PM
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josh.
Posts: 3469 - Karma: 42
the hmc doesn't have a hard drive...
Nov 17 2009 11:04PM
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treebeard
Posts: 3663 - Karma: 1,954
on b&h's website it said it didn't support miniDV. i guess i don't know if it has a harddrive, but i prefer to work with tapes
Nov 17 2009 11:06PM
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njwa88
Posts: 465 - Karma: 15
if you rly gotta chose one of those 2, get the HDR-FX7
or if your looking for other stuff, Panasonic is legit, I like the P2 series although its expensive and all
Nov 17 2009 11:08PM
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treebeard
Posts: 3663 - Karma: 1,954
yeah, i'm more of a panasonic and canon guy myself, but they're just too damn expensive
Nov 17 2009 11:10PM
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Elijah.
Posts: 9322 - Karma: 76
So help him out instead of being a dick about it.
Nov 17 2009 11:37PM
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family_vacation
Posts: 6200 - Karma: 7,840
Click for larger image
but really, what are you using now? that would be helpful to know.
Nov 17 2009 11:38PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
I'd like to know how on earth a person can prefer tapes...?
Nov 17 2009 11:38PM
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family_vacation
Posts: 6200 - Karma: 7,840
The format used by flash memory can be a huge pain for some computers.
Nov 17 2009 11:40PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
sounds more like a flaw in the computer, not the camera.
Nov 17 2009 11:40PM
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treebeard
Posts: 3663 - Karma: 1,954
i'm using an old non-hd canon. it was like $250 or something.

but jesus christ guys, i said this would be my first prosumer camera. sorry for not being a fucking camera guru like you all apparently are
Nov 17 2009 11:47PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
be cool fool, I genuinely wanted to know.
Nov 17 2009 11:53PM
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Caveman.
Posts: 9067 - Karma: 330
Sounds like an HV30 would be a good choice for you.
Nov 17 2009 11:55PM
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eheath
Posts: 61601 - Karma: 123,027
LOL really? you actually considered the second one?



And the fx7 isn't that great, whats youre budget? Oh and post in M/A next time and you wont get stupid answers.
Nov 17 2009 11:56PM
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eheath
Posts: 61601 - Karma: 123,027
And holy shit another reason why you shouldn't post this in NSG




DONT POST IF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOURE TALKING ABOUT. (not you OP, this stupid person i quoted)
Nov 17 2009 11:58PM
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treebeard
Posts: 3663 - Karma: 1,954
again, i don't know a ton about these kinds of cameras yet, as i've never owned one.

but my budget is around 2200-2300. i plan on getting the fx7, messing around with it for a year or two, then getting something quite a bit better
Nov 18 2009 12:00AM
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antwone
Posts: 1352 - Karma: 157
keep that for you
plus you should do alot of research b4 buying some camera cause there are loads of things to consider
Nov 18 2009 12:10AM
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family_vacation
Posts: 6200 - Karma: 7,840
get an HV30, buy a wide angle lens and stuff, then mess with that for a year or two.

or, buy a DVX, learn a lot about filming with one, and upgrade to HD once the time comes.
Nov 18 2009 12:21AM
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Jordan
Posts: 4079 - Karma: 2,122
Oh man.



That's how I pick my photography equipment...the ones that look the pretty-ist.
Nov 18 2009 12:21AM
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josh.
Posts: 3469 - Karma: 42
tell us the specs on your computer, if they're decent than you could use the hmc, it uses sd cards, once you start using them you well say "tapes are wack yo".
Nov 18 2009 12:33AM
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treebeard
Posts: 3663 - Karma: 1,954
macbook pro. 4gb memory, 500gb harddrive, 2.53ghz processor.

not exactly a shitty computer. but i like having multiple tapes to keep track of everything better (i have a good organization system for them), so i guess that's why i like mini dv more
Nov 18 2009 12:39AM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
With specs like that you could easily edit in a nicer format.
Nov 18 2009 12:41AM
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treebeard
Posts: 3663 - Karma: 1,954
ok, i give. can someone please tell me what makes using a harddrive (or other non-tape) camera so much better than mini dv??
Nov 18 2009 12:43AM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
Tapeless media is all around much more durable. It's not nearly as prone to condensation/dirty heads/dropped frames. The biggest advantage, is that they support resolutions higher than 480i and 4:1:1, depending on what type of system you get.

Hard drive even worse than miniDV.
Nov 18 2009 12:51AM
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antwone
Posts: 1352 - Karma: 157
to take the footage to your computer you take your card out and you insert it in your computer and its done. All the footage is by clips (starts when u press rec ends when you press rec) saves a lot of time in your editing process.
Nov 18 2009 8:33AM
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factory81
Posts: 3967 - Karma: 63
http://camcorder-test.slashcam.com/campair-EN.shtml


Try this site out for comparing camcorders. I was going to buy the HF200, until I saw that its low color quality sucked ass....
Nov 18 2009 8:44AM
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njwa88
Posts: 465 - Karma: 15
dude, if you want to jump from a 250$ camera to a 2200$ cam, you better know what to get and what you are doing with it. With this type of equipment bro, you can't "mess" around with if you want it to last.
If you want a good prosumer cam which is perfect to experiment with and a great way to learn on that you can "mess around" with , I am selling my Canon GL2
pm me if interested, I have a whole kit. I want to sell it for cheap
Nov 18 2009 9:08AM
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BLACKLIVESMATTER
Posts: 721 - Karma: 1,255
If you have the extra cash then you should go with the SDR - FX1000.  I own it and it is the shit, super good quality at all light levels especially at night, which makes it perfect for filming urban.  It is not to much more and there are some pretty good deals on the web if u hunt around.
Nov 18 2009 9:29AM
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holyDINOSAURS
Posts: 7038 - Karma: 639
also take in to account the advantages of a camera that is BUILT for tapeless media (SDHC, P2...NOT HARDDRIVE)

no tape drive = smaller/lighter/less moving parts to break/less open areas for condensation to collect in/less battery power used not running a physical motor

plus SDHC themselves are way more durable than tape PLUS once you first capture footage from tapeless media, you'll never want to sit in front of your computer and watch a real time capture monitor for dropped frames again.

i only run 3gb of ram at 2.3ghz and i edit footage from my HMC150 flawlessly. it sounds like the HMC40 would be a better cam for you
Nov 18 2009 11:49AM
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njwa88
Posts: 465 - Karma: 15
aahh fuck that used to happen to me all the time, its such a bitchhhh
so annoying
Nov 18 2009 12:19PM
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Snowcase
Posts: 11456 - Karma: 634
"Hey listen to me! I don't know anything, but I think I do so I post in everything!"

But seriously. Do not buy a camera on a whim. Do your research, make pros and cons and post in a place where you will get real advice, not idiots like the person I quoted.
Nov 18 2009 12:23PM
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eheath
Posts: 61601 - Karma: 123,027
This. Get the AVCHD plugins for adobe(PC) or get final cut 7(mac) both easy to get for free on the interweb. 2000 bucks, 3ccd camera with 1080p30.


solid state > hdv

solid state has much better colors, with higher end (p2,xdcam) you get a much higher mb transfer rate, higher mbs per clip the more detail a clip can have. hdv is like whar 24mbp? 25? cant remember, AVCHD depends on the camera but its about 24. p2 is roughly 70-100mbps which is why p2 camera create such amazing footage.

Importing is about the same speed, and RAID a harddrive and you'll love not having tapes.
Nov 18 2009 12:25PM
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treebeard
Posts: 3663 - Karma: 1,954
i'm already working on fcp so i'm fine there.

and you obviously know what you're doing. if you're backing up everyone else on not using tapes, i might just give this a shot
Nov 18 2009 1:25PM
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[~_~]
Posts: 20239 - Karma: 1,273
I completely forgot about that! The workflow is so much easier. You don't have to waste time with batch capture/real time capture stuff. And certain workflows, like p2, have metadata, which makes organizing and vfx soooo much easier.
Nov 18 2009 2:49PM
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Justo8484
Posts: 3905 - Karma: 205
not sure if i am adding or detracting from this thread, but my manager bought a sony hd harddrive cam for use at work because he got a good deal on it. we've had nothing but problems getting final cut to read the files from the thing.

eHeath, you seem to know your shit here, so is there an easy solution to this, or is it just generally not a good plan to go with a sony (or panasonic, they use the same file format) hard drive camera when working on a mac? we got around it by importing it into imovie then exporting a quicktime from there to take into final cut, but thats ghetto, and it takes forever. i'm more of a canon fan myself and have never had any issues with any of their products, photo or video.
Nov 18 2009 3:00PM
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holyDINOSAURS
Posts: 7038 - Karma: 639
i dont think so but CS4 reads .mts files. or you can just transcode to DVCproHD
Nov 18 2009 4:17PM
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josh.
Posts: 3469 - Karma: 42
harddrive=/=sd cards

just making that clear, hard drive sucks, sd cards are great. My buddy had a problem getting his dvx to hook up to his mac, so he bought a cannon capture cam. But you can't really do that with an hard drive camera (you could with sd) so i can't really help you.
Nov 18 2009 11:55PM
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Dr.NS
Posts: 640 - Karma: 19
thank you eheath for setting him and everyone straight. and Dawn, you're retarded, as usual.

basically dude, if you get an HMC, i can guarantee you you're gonna be up a creek without a paddle for a long while as you wonder why your footage isnt as amazing as you thought it would be

you're taking a BIG leap here, so just make sure you know what you're getting into. lots of reading, lots of learning. you wanna make sick edits for skiing or whatever? do you have any of the other resources needed to make them/ have you even thought about that? what about tripods, mic's, maybe a dolly even.

i shoot with p2, and the workflow is awesome as everyone says, but you may be confused at first. if you ask me though, don't just go looking for a camera because its in the right price range, look for ones that people are suggesting. i for one love the HV series from canon. ive worked with a HV40 and its awesome. just a thought.


good luck, and if you have any questions about p2, or if you need to know how to work with them, you can pm me or someone else who's shot with it before.
Nov 19 2009 12:06AM
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treebeard
Posts: 3663 - Karma: 1,954
i know what i'm getting myself into. i know a lot about filming and such, just not a ton about the cameras themselves (but i'm working on it)

and i'm working on getting the money for a good fluid head. the camera will be a christmas gift, so i'm not blowing any money there (the price range was my parents', not mine)

and as for edits and such, i've been editing on final cut express for about a year and a half and made a movie last year. this year will be my first season working with final cut pro and its brother programs (color, motion, etc) but i'm confident in my abilities

thanks for the info and offer. i'm sure i'll take you up on that at some point
Nov 19 2009 12:19AM
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dergblerp
Posts: 1303 - Karma: 77
Let me just say, I've used the HD1000U wayy more times than I'd like to share, and it is a terrible, terrible camera.  It's basically a bad version of the HC-3 in a shoulder mount format.  The Fx-7 is decent, but the chips are 1/4 inch though, and really don't perform all that well in low light.  For ~2200-2500 you can probably find a used Canon XHA1 on craigslist/ebay which would be a huge step up from the FX7, let alone HD1000U.  Otherwise, you can probably find a used FX1 on craigslist for around 2000, which is similar to the FX7, only better manual controls, ect. 
I used the FX1 on a documentary a few months ago in Greece, and it takes really solid 1080/60i footage.  I personally own an XHA1 however, which is similar to the FX1, only it has XLR inputs, and 30p/24p as well (i'm not sure if the FX1 shoots 30p...)  The Canon is a really awesome camera, and i just finished shooting a feature on it!  If you're interested in doing narrative filmmaking, as opposed to just ski edits, this would be a great option.  Anyways, I hope that helps some.
Nov 19 2009 12:32AM
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Dr.NS
Posts: 640 - Karma: 19
alright well thats sick then

my advice then, like that guy above said, try to buy used
find a used xha1 or a hmc like he said

or go for the hdr fx7, its legit too, my friend has a fx1 and its dope

best of luck
Nov 19 2009 9:29PM
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adamlukowski
Posts: 3676 - Karma: 311
YESSS i got a camera for its 60 gig hard drive (canon HG20) and it doesn't even work, so i need to use a SDHC card that is less than 1 gig but i get by. and its not a permananet camera either
Nov 19 2009 9:35PM
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