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Issues of debate that will NEVER be solved

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PagesHouse
Posts: 6024 - Karma: 104
Does this frustrate anyone else? I'm talking about the topics that have been argued, fought over, debated, discussed, preached, and everything else and yet we still have no answer.... because there is no right answer.... but we continue to violently and offensively argue these issues to no end.

Of course I, and everyone else in the world, has their own views and opinions which all deserve the time of day. I still get incredibly fired up when I read threads on topics like abortion, politics, health care reform, affirmative action, environmentalism, vegetarians, etc. And yes, these are some of the most pertinent issues effecting us today. But does it frustrate any of you to no end that we continue to degrade and verbally abuse each other over questions with no answer?
Nov 14 2009 12:42PM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
It can be used to argue ANYTHING?? Dude, i know you hate christianity, and im not trying to be a thread troll, i am just humbly presenting my beliefs, and with all due respect, that is a massive generalization.

To the guy right behind you, yes i know alot of the rules in the bible are shaped for the time period, but it is the principles of the matter that we should walk away with. Like dont work on the sabbath. The principle behind this is to give God the time of day and at least honor Him by going to church. if you REALLY love God you would want to worship him and learn more about him. JUst my to cents
Nov 15 2009 1:45AM
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blackoutbill
Posts: 2918 - Karma: 282
When did I ever say I hate christianity? I'm actually agnostic and went through three years of conformation. I just decided that church and organized religion wasn't my thing

I could argue both sides of most debates (gay rights, affirmative action, etc) from the bible. Conservative and liberal.

The few relevant moral principles presented by the bible are about how to be a generally better human being - principles that can be picked up by common sense. Things that Buddha taught long before Jesus. No hate on Christianity there, just showing that those principles were around longer than the new testament
Nov 15 2009 1:52AM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
ughh i hate buddhist debates because i know absolutely nothing about buddhism except that it is a syncretic relgion meaning it is a religion that stems from a bunch of other religions, Christianity being one of them.
Nov 15 2009 1:58AM
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blackoutbill
Posts: 2918 - Karma: 282
Word dude. I don't want to start any holy wars either. No harm meant. This thread got way off topic. Sorry about that
Nov 15 2009 1:59AM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
haha no worries i dont mind
Nov 15 2009 2:03AM
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Dukeybrains
Posts: 1030 - Karma: 11
Well this thread got fucked in the arse


Nov 15 2009 2:21AM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
My point was that half of the 10 commandments have nothing to do with morality... and the other ones (dont kill, dont steal etc.) are simply wrong.
It is okay to kill someone in certain circumstances, its ok to steal in certain circumstances... and its a helluva lot more important to not rape people or have slaves or beat you kids and molest them than to not work on sunday or to not cheat or wish you had your friend's TV. The bible is not a valid source for people to obtain their morals from. Sorry.
If God was omnipotent, omnipresent, all good, and the best thing ever, he would've made it so we all know whats right and would never ever do wrong. (inb4 bullshit about eve eating the apple and the devil etc... if god has the attributes i described above, he would simply snap his fingers and everything would be perfect, no matter what.)

The bible fails at morals... and religion is completely unnecessary, if not a hindrance, when it comes to making correct moral judgement.
Nov 15 2009 2:26AM
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selkirks
Posts: 1978 - Karma: 59
How does this thread turn into a religious debate?
Nov 15 2009 2:30AM
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PagesHouse
Posts: 6024 - Karma: 104
To be honest with you, I think half of you are missing the point. This turned out to be quite possibly one of the most ironic threads I've ever read. Hahaaaa if I'm the only one who got pure enjoyment out of this tonight then at least someone was successful.

Have a beautiful Sunday to all of you.
Nov 15 2009 2:44AM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
im quite certain about 10 people made reference to the irony of this thread already.
Nov 15 2009 2:51AM
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PagesHouse
Posts: 6024 - Karma: 104
Sorry I don't spend my Saturday nights sitting inside reading Newschoolers posts. Maybe next time.
Nov 15 2009 2:58AM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
Coulda sworn its Saturday night right now.
Nov 15 2009 3:08AM
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PagesHouse
Posts: 6024 - Karma: 104
Nope it's Sunday.
Nov 15 2009 3:08AM
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factory81
Posts: 3967 - Karma: 63
The more attention you give these people the more powerful they are. Don't watch their shows. Call them a retard, and keep on with your life.

They just churn the news that released that day and try and make it in to tabloid shit.


All real news is on NPR and BBC.
Nov 15 2009 8:47AM
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EastCoast315
Posts: 3136 - Karma: 137
This is where government has a huge problem. Some of the citizenry's problems are completely subjective, personal preferences. When you try to translate it into an objective law, someone ends up pissed off. And because of freedom of speech, someone can always shoot it down. So its a vicious circle.
And I dont know why I used bold
Nov 15 2009 9:13AM
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alev
Posts: 7819 - Karma: 410
there isnt a debate, just stating facts about how much they make
Nov 15 2009 10:49AM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
WRONG WRONG WRONG. There is a difference between universality(all people holding a moral based on genetics) and objectivity.

Lets look at utilitarianism as a moral theory. It is pretty logical and an attempt at objectivity, but to call it objective is a misnomer. If a society chooses utilitarianism as its ethics code or whatever that is fine, but it would be ignorant for them to judge a society that uses something different and has never heard of utilitarianism. The same goes for any other moral theory whether its kantian or religious in nature.
Nov 15 2009 11:07AM
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troublemaker3
Posts: 1954 - Karma: 225

there is no gray area anymore, only black and white - im right your wrong.

people need to realize we can all learn things from one another

Nov 15 2009 1:00PM
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00000000
Posts: 11075 - Karma: 82,508
Really? So it was moral to have slave when it was legal to have slaves?
And now it is immoral to have slaves because it is illegal to have slaves?

Laws are based on evolving moral and ethical thinking.
Moral and ethical thinking are not based on evolving laws.
Nov 15 2009 1:21PM
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BlackcountryBill
Posts: 955 - Karma: 576
Poles or no poles?
Nov 15 2009 1:46PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
I think we misunderstand eachother. I am not saying that utilitarianism is right and everything else is wrong. I dont think we have reached a point where we know whats always right and wrong, but we are definitely evolving towards that state as we gain more knowledge etc.
Its not like morals just flip flop from one side to other... they progress towards a final point sorta.
Nov 15 2009 1:55PM
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jibbinc.
Posts: 3355 - Karma: 2,497
Mine fits in with the above, religion.
Unless thats what there talking about, i was too lazy to read it all.
Nov 15 2009 2:06PM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
If God made it so there was no wrong in the world, then there would be no God. if the world was perfect, then there would be no reason for a God. God wants us to choose good, but he can't force us to do so without depriving us of free will and making us nothing more than instinctual creatures. Depriving us of free will would imply also depriving us of an immortal soul, and therefore any possibility of heaven.

Nov 15 2009 2:20PM
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blackoutbill
Posts: 2918 - Karma: 282
Just a question. Do you think God is omniscient?
Nov 15 2009 2:33PM
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Mr.Panda
Posts: 17711 - Karma: 564
The lovely argument that humans are inherently evil and drawn to evil ideas argument.
Nov 15 2009 2:33PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
Oh i thought we were done with this...

God has made a perfect world (heaven)... surely, if he was a nice dude, he could have just made everyone chill in heaven for their whole lives and then everyone would be happy as fuck.

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?"

Im sure god could come up with some way to not make most of the population of the Earth suffer horribly every day of their lives without taking away free will.
Nov 15 2009 2:40PM
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TheButterHashira
Posts: 9691 - Karma: 1,702
A moral theory is like a measuring stick. Our morals are moving toward a more rational utilitarianism but that is and never was objective. It might be more pragmatic, resulting in happier people(so thats good) but I don't think it can be called objective. If we find a tribe of pigmy people making human sacrifices we can't judge them using our measuring stick, they are doing things we consider immoral because that is all they know.

I can understand how you might use objective facts(science) to point out that certain morals may be irrational in the light of evidence.

(also I have been quoting and debating a lot of your posts. If I am sounding condescending or douchebaggy please forgive it wasn't intention. keep it gucci)
Nov 15 2009 4:49PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
Human sacrifice is wrong because theres no God... so thats not really much of an argument.


It is wrong (always) to kill someone who has not done any harm to you/your family (directly or otherwise) for example.
It is wrong to steal (unless its a matter of life/death or whatever)

If everyone in our society killed eachother and stole all their shit, then it would be a pretty shit society... therefore, it is morally wrong to kill and steal. Thats how it works for everything pretty much. If nobody stole anything or killed anyone, society would be better than if everyone stole everything and killed everyone.
Nov 15 2009 5:35PM
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Elijah.
Posts: 9322 - Karma: 76
Read Kwame Anthony Appiah's essay, "Moral Disagreement".

http://courses.wwu.edu/@@CA8EF4E69FCC26B9F1E495534C4DF572/courses/1/B42013-200940/content/_961343_1/Moral%20Disagreement.pdf

I even uploaded 'er for everyone. It's definitely worth reading.
Nov 15 2009 5:41PM
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grifftang
Posts: 1277 - Karma: 14
itt: too many moralfags
Nov 15 2009 5:44PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
...youre an idiot who doesnt know what a "moralfag" is. Stop posting on /b/.
Nov 15 2009 6:09PM
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grifftang
Posts: 1277 - Karma: 14
meh imo people who argue about morals are moralfags

and whats wrong with idiots posting on /b/?
Nov 15 2009 6:53PM
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OhMyBosh
Posts: 5056 - Karma: 171
moralfag = someone who goes on /b/ and tells people to stop looking at CP.
Nov 15 2009 7:12PM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
1. for one thing it makes heaven have no significance if happiness is all we know, we need suffering to help us realize the absolute joy that IS heaven


2. our pain isnt God's fault it's our own

HE may have predestined it to happen, but invariably, its our choices that screw us up, not Gods


that help?

Nov 15 2009 11:23PM
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PeteyG
Posts: 2946 - Karma: 49
And to Wills. , yes I beieve God is 100% omniscient, HE knows everything, He knows i am typing this right now, he knows when you will die and when you first masturbated and when the world will end.
Nov 15 2009 11:26PM
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